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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Battery Rescue?
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isaiah Guru  Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Yes most of what is posted here is actual procedures that people have used. Yes battery rescue is a 50/50 success rate at best.Its a good feeling of accomplishment when you have one turn out for the better. That was a interesting article that norcold posted. Im looking for some more battery's to work on over the summer. Hope we gety more comments here. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
I`ve not had much success with restoring lead acid batteries, Battery university is a fairly extensive site with lots of info on batteries of all types. Here is another titbit that I found works sometimes on NiCad`s when they lose capacity. Put them in your freezer for a few days, allow to "thaw" to room temp than recharge. The science behind this(aparently) is that this breaks down the crystal formation that destroys nicads. I say aparently because I`m not sure where I got this info from(suffer from Oldtimers) Now what was I on about.  We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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Wombat Regular Member  Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
I'm currently playing with a bunch of small 12v 7Ah battery's that I had lying around. Somehow I think there a waste of time. Some are 9.82 - 10.73V. Dead I'd say. Others varied a lot from 12.1 - 13.2V. I'm having a bugger of a time trying to get them close enough to connect them in parallel. They seem to group in bunches of 3 of 4. (I have 18 off them, and come across a lot of them.) Some people were/are playing with equalizer circuits for large capacitors. Do you think something similar could be used on battery's? Hmmm, would be nice... Back to going crazy with these little suckers.... Russ  |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Russ, Are those 12v 7ah battery's out of security lights or something like that? Look at the top real close and you'll see the out line of the top they dont want you to remove , Remove it any way and under that top you'll find the cell caps that need to be taken off and re-hydrated!! Be careful when taking the top off because you"ll Want to put it back on when charging the battery's they tend to blow the caps off those little buggers. go slow with charging and don't get them hot. Hope this helps a bit. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| Wombat Regular Member Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
Hi Isaiah. Yes, the battery's are from old UPS and such. They tend to throw out whole UPS units because of battery's! Something I can't understand... such waste! Your mentioning of removing the tops is a good idea as a mate tried this a few years back. Not sure how he went, and I had completely forgotten about it. Most have a 1 piece rectangle plate on top. Others with the 6 circles. I'll start with the flat ones first and hope it's not to difficult to remove the tops. Not sure about re-hydrating them. Will have to pull some apart and see. Thanks Isaiah. Goodonya mate. Russ P.S. Anyone with thoughts on electronic battery equalization? Maybe controlled with a Maximite? Thanks again..  |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Russ, The ups's you can drill a couple holes in them and run in new wires and hook them to a bigger battery. We have several hooked up that way. We use a hypodermic syringe to put water in them and do this slow also dont fill them right up if they are down put some in and charge then add some more water. There is a place that sells them reasonable in the states but the shipping down there is prohibitive. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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Bub73 Senior Member  Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116 |
Russ, Here is a pdf I found on the net some time ago on re-hydrating those battery's; maybe it will help. Bob 2012-03-20_011702_pc_rejuvenate_gelcell_2.pdf |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All If you get some of the printer ink recharge kits the needle amd squeeze bottle works good after it old ink is rinsed out, be careful as it stains and can get you unpopular with the wife. Bob Foolin Around |
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| Wombat Regular Member Joined: 27/05/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
Yes Isaiah, I have 2x 24V UPS hooked up to my bank as-well. One will start without mains input, the other won't. Neusence!, without documentation, it makes it hard. There are all Powershield Ups's. I also have a nice big 1.2KVA 48VDC unit here waiting for use. The small 24V unit I would like to hook up to the 7Ah battery's (more the merrier), and use at the caravan, or shed, with the single 190W 24V panel I have here. Thanks Bub73. It's an interesting read and will be useful. 
Going overseas for a month, so I'll be a bit quiet. Let you all know how I get on in 6 weeks or so. Let the fun begin! HA! Russ |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Have heard of people putting electric fence chargers onto batteries to knock off the sulphate. Weird! Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Dom A lot of things have been tried some work some don't. Battery's will take more voltage than they are rated for. When one embarks on that adventure he has to keep in mind that there may be a Hi Decibel event and have safety gear handy!! One thing I want to comment on is a few pages back I show some pictures of the cell connectors that these days are inside the battery. If one of these losses contact and you hit the battery with hi voltage it may arc and blow. If you ever had a battery that was working good and just goes dead that is probably what happened to it . The cell connector lost contact and caused a open circuit. Ill let Bub73 comment on the fence charger trick. stay safe Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
domwind, I've thought about trying this...but chickened out. I figgured that the best route was to have the correct tool for the job. Probably a wise choice, I can't predict what would happen with a fence charger...probably not a good outcome. Mac 46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All A high energy pulse type electric fence unit would help de sulphate a battery as its voltage would be tied to the battery due to the low inexpedience of the battery, the danger could be if there is an open circuit in the connectors in a sealed battery and some residual gas with a spark flash over it may go pop. If you try it make sure that the battery has some voltage so show no internal open circuit and do it outside and from a safe distance, saving an old battery isn't worth a good set of eyes. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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pancho43 Newbie  Joined: 27/02/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
Hello Bob, I've just re-read most of this thread after doing a search of desulphators. about a year ago I bought a desulphator (after reading the earlier posts in this thread) from a local (Brisbane) supplier. After hooking it up I put my volt meter on the battery and could easily watch the pulses at it did its job. This particular unit had only one flashing red LED which flashed in tune with the pulses (roughly about a second each) and would stop working if the voltage went below about 11.5 volts. As I could not remember any discussion re pulsing at the time I thought this was all good. Unfortunately this desulphator only lasted about 8 months and is now not working at all. The unit was from Energytech and when I asked for warranty the bloke answered that as he could not verify the conditions the unit was working under, he would not replace it, but offered to sell me another at about a $5.00 discount! I told him that I would not take the risk, and would purchase another brand even though it would have to come from o-seas. So --- I took yours (not holding you responsible here)and others advice and purchased an infinitum one and hooked that up. Immediately I put my multimeter on to see the pulsing but to my surprise I could see none at all! Question please: On yours can you read the pulses with an ordinary meter as in the case of my first unit or is the frequency (or some other reason) of the infinitum ones not readable? I contacted the seller, who assured me that I cannot read the pulses with a multimeter and that, yes, he does stand by their warranty. I have tried it on three different batteries with the same result. Is there any way to tell if the unit is working. I do notice that there is a very tiny spark as I connect it. I see that they have a bulk buy offer of five units for $180.00 or thereabouts but unless I can verify their quality I will not go this way yet. Thanks in advance, Pete. edited to correct the five unit for 180 Pete |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Pete I have tried a few different brands but the infinity one has stood the test of time and abuse unintentional of course. I have good results on wet cells and mixed results on SLA and Gell cell, a better than fifty percent recovery rate on sound cells. You cannot see the thing working with a multimeter because it works at a pulse frequency to high for the multimeter to respond t, it is designed to work at the resonant frequency of the sulphate crystals according to the instructions to make it more efficient at dissipating the crystals. You need an osiliscope to be able to see the pulses, and as you noted the slight arcing you notices on connection indicates it is pulsing. I would suggest you experiment with the one you have rather than going in for bulk deal on something you do not have confidence in. SLA and Gell cells that have been cooked by overcharging will give poor results as generally they are dehydrated over a period of time and even with some rehydration results vary as you are never sure exactly how much H2O to add to get a proper balance chemically, also as the electrolyte is concentrated by loss of water the sulphation can cause mechanical damage to the cells by crystal expansion. Batteries that have been left sit and sulphate up give a better result than ones that have been overcooked. Cells over 12 years old SLA or Gell do not respond well and wet cells that have serious sulphation and dried out also can be a waste of time but a good experiment. Hope this is some help All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
leave it on one battery for a while and take notice of the cells you should start to see a difference in the water and see some of the stuff on the plates etc. start clearing up. It is better to prevent than restore. Bub builds some home made ones and he adds a check point to see the pulses. infinitum we use the 12 volt models here with no trouble for several years. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| pancho43 Newbie Joined: 27/02/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
Thank you so much chaps. That puts my mind at rest heaps. With the luck I've been having lately I thought the worst,unfortunately. I had taken it off the battery after first checking it and inquired with the seller as to my fears. When he told me that they could not be checked with a multimeter I was dubious having seen the Energytech ones in action, so I thought I would enquire here, while re-fitting the unit to the battery that I had first tried it on. I'm pleased to say that I think there is some change already as the voltage seems to be holding longer with the charger switched off! the one I'm trying it on is out of a motorcycle which had not been used often and had run flat, charged, run flat again, charged and so on. I think it is only 18 months old so I'm hoping it will be recoverable. It belongs to my son, and I also have batteries in a boat that don't get used that often as well as the ride-on and so on, hence my interest in the multi deal as it works out at about $30 bucks each and between us we could put them to good use, if they are reliable, and it sounds like they are. As you say Isaiah 'better to prevent than restore', so we'll see, I might go for the multi deal after all. I have looked at the kits and thought of making up my own but who would bother if these are reliable and they work out similar price if bought in numbers. Cheers and thanks again, Pete. Pete |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
pancho43 If you want to get into it deeper you can see the pulse on a scope, that's getting hi tec. Those battery's that aren't getting used enough you might look into a small solar panel to keep them charged on each unit. Give that motor cycle battery some time to come back you might want to get a cheap hydrometer and check the gravity on each sell. wal mart and the box auto stores here in the states have them cheap but gives you the idea of the state of charge, Dont let it get hot for very long while charging its ok to give them a rest period. If one cell is down more than the others you should see it catching up with the defoliator running on it. Don't leave a battery set discharged long its real hard on them. You might want to think of building a mini mill to give the battery's something to do off season? Stay safe and keep the rescue battery clean. All battery's should be kept clean. My brother and I are battery rescuer's some will come back and some not. Last summer we worked on two big tractor battery's one came back the other one didn't make it, we worked on them all summer. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| pancho43 Newbie Joined: 27/02/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 10 |
Thank you Isaiah, Yes I'm aware of the damage that can be caused by leaving batteries discharged. In my working life I had trawlers (finished up with 3 at once), and each one had two banks of very heavy duty batteries to start the 18.6 litre engines and another for the auxiliaries, and during the off season I would check the condition of batteries constantly. It was not un-usual for a deck hand to go into the engine room and leave the 24 volt lights on! I've been watching this thread with great interest since it was started probably along with an awful lot of others. I'm very interested in battery rescue as well and have been looking out for some to recover. So far I've picked up two that have only needed a good charging and both will start a diesel Landcruiser. They will probably be even better with a bit of desulphation. As has been mentioned along the way you don't win em all though. I've had no experience with gel or any sort of fancy ones and by the comments from Bob and others I'll probably never bother. Yes I've built a couple of little windmills. One I had on the top of the mast of my trailer sailer that would put out about a half an amp but unfortunately was only mounted by a stainless steel hose clamp. Bit rough I know, but it was a rush job, anyway in a big blow the sails were flapping so violently while tacking that it was dislodged and is in the briney somewhere. I've just built another from a little stepper motor and interestingly I found that as glen advises to use 47uf caps to improve the performance, I found I got better results with 10uf. I tried everything from 220 down to 2.2 and found 10uf the best with this motor. Cheers, Pete. Edit: I wish I had an extra two desulphators right now as I'm not too sure about the two batteries in the boat. I'll be leaving in about four weeks to travel over 4,000 kilometers to the Kimberley Region to go sailing and will be needing my batteries in reasonable condition for the trip, as we'll be out for probably about two months and it's a very remote area, with no help for hundreds of miles. There's not enough time for the one unit to clean the three batteries up before we go. Pete |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
4 weeks that would give you time to get a couple of desulphators and a couple of solar battery charging panels. A trip like that I think I would sleep better at nite if I had a couple good solar panels to bring the battery's up. You might want to get a load test meter and do a load test on those battery's before you go. If they don't load test good you might want to replace before you leave. I have a old small pontoon that I use for fishing . I carry two battery's one for the motor and one to run the electric trolling motor. just don't want to get caught out there with no way to get back. URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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