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Mulver Senior Member Joined: 27/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 160
Posted: 10:45pm 21 Jan 2018
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Madness has mentioned a zeversolar inverter can be set to not allow back feeding. I'd say that would be the easiest plug and play way to drop your usage on your smart meter phase !
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 11:11pm 21 Jan 2018
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If you stay all electric you can run for free when the sun is shining. Things like HWS don,t need to run at night and if you regularly run out of HW you could always add a second system.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 11:18pm 21 Jan 2018
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George, I used to work at the research lab of the Gas and Fuel Corporation (Victoria) about thirty years ago. Back then normal day tariff electricity cost nine times the cost of natural gas for generating heat. Don't know the relative costs these days, and its complicated by consumption sliding scales and off peak charges.
Anyone that has natural gas should use that in preference to electricity wherever possible. Its totally different if you have gone bush of course, but for us suburbanite prisoners, its definitely the way to go.
Cheers, Tony.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 05:30am 22 Jan 2018
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Which is pretty much my point.
All this greenwashed, save the planet thing constantly rammed down our necks is pure and utter malarkey. They have the audacity to ask me to pay more for " Green " power so why shouldn't they pay me at least the same as I buy " regular" power from them instead a fraction of the price?
Which way do they want it? Do they want to be warm and fuzzy and green and environmentally responsible as they make out or are they just interested in profit? Clearly its the latter and it's the hypocrisy and guilt tripping that piss me off.
All this green, save the planet thing is all well and good while it's making big biz and gubbermints money. when it's not, they not only don't care, it's illegal.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 05:33am 22 Jan 2018
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I looked up the zeversolar inverters but I can't see any refrence to this. IS it the GFCI function? whatever that stands for? Otherwise, do all or only some of their inverters do this, what's it called and which ones have the function?
Seems like an expensive way to get a simple thing. I'd have thought there would have been a fairly simple way of doing it with relays. In any case, I'd like to be able to have the power going to another phase and be used rather than the panels and ( expensive) inverter just sitting there when the AC wasn't being used which is more days than it is.
Of course the other thing is, could I make a 3rd phase out of the other 2 phases by running them through some caps or something similar to a C2c setup or use a rotary inverter?Edited by George65 2018-01-23
Mulver Senior Member Joined: 27/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 160
Posted: 05:54am 22 Jan 2018
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Is the only thing on that phase a 3 phase Airconditioner ? If so is the AC an inverter model or simple on/off compressor? Edited by Mulver 2018-01-23
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 06:16am 22 Jan 2018
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GFCI is to do with ground fault indication.
To control how much power is fed back to the grid you need the Zevercom communications device and the energy meter they specify in the manual for it. When I first posted about this I said that it is available with Zeversolar but others may have it.
If you look at the zevercom_user_manual_en.pdf manual (you will need to find and download it as it is too large to upload here) on page 14 it shows how to control power. This supposed to work with multiple Zeversolar Inverters.Edited by Madness 2018-01-23There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 07:08am 22 Jan 2018
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Thanks madness. I'll look it up. Sounds like this will be an expensive exercise though. Would have to weigh it up with what I would return in savings on that phase to see if it would be worthwhile.
AC is about 15 years old so just a simple on/off. It's had the board and compressor changed in recent years so a mate in AC reckons I may well get a good few years out of it yet and it would not be worth getting rid of it and replacing it with a new single phase unit as most of them are now till it dies.
It really is a necessity here. It's 14o hotter which is average here than the city yet they complain it's a hot day. :0)
I was out working in the yard earlier for not that long, 90 min or so and came in and I was seeing stars. Been drinking water all day like a fish but the heat here is bad. To be able to come in to a beautifully cool oasis is the difference between being OK and being crook. Being able to sleep comfortable at night is something else that's for me is a necessity to provide to my family.
I have the air set at 24 which isn't that cool but compared to outside, it's freaking heaven.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 07:11am 22 Jan 2018
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It is not expensive, I have a spare Zervercom you can have for $50, the energy meter they specify is $134 pn Aliexpress and it is 3 phase, so you should be able to have 1 or more inverters on each phase and it will manage the whole shooting match. I have not tried this, I am going on what the manual says. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Ralph2k6 Senior Member Joined: 24/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 129
Posted: 08:38am 22 Jan 2018
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Wondering if any brands of pv diverter energy meter devices could work across the board. We are looking at getting fronius unit, but their ancillary gear is more $ than the Chinese stuff. Maybe comes down to modbus commands etc or maybe they all do their own thing to be difficult.Ralph
Mulver Senior Member Joined: 27/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 160
Posted: 08:59am 22 Jan 2018
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Sounds like the zeversolar might be a good solution. The only other simple idea I have is as it's an on and off ac is to size an array and inverter just under the load the ac puts on that phase. Drive a relay off the ac compressor to connect and disconnect the inverter when it goes on and off. This is far from ideal for many reasons. But could be done simply. I think some inverters you can change the time they take to connect after a restart. Maybe you could drop this down?? Just a thought...
yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166
Posted: 09:40am 22 Jan 2018
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hard to tell without trying it
you may get a slave device "invalid data address" message if the meter is not set within the datamanagers range register.
fronius wont work with ascii and linear checksums it uses rtu and cyclic checksums (crc) If you can meet both these criteria there is a good chance it could work. However I am in that kinda life is too short to be dicking around trying to hack something when I know it will work with the right bits phase.
Hacking modbus and canbus is right up there with snail racing and watching paint dry.
the advantage of fronius is they are modular and can be repaired onsite and they can be overpanelled by 33% or 50% depending on the rules. my feeling is you either drink the koolaid and run all fronius or go with the cheap stuff and have a go at repairing it if it goes bang. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 10:44am 22 Jan 2018
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Off-grid is so much simpler There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 10:58am 22 Jan 2018
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What size is the inverter madness? Do you know if it will limit just one phase and export to the others?
I was just reading up on inverters and this "Grid export limiting" and it seems a few of them do it now.
This inverter you have may be the ticket!. Can you link me to the export meter please?
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 11:04am 22 Jan 2018
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This is exactly what I was thinking of. Not ideal but cheap and for me, doable and it would save me some money.
I was thinking of it along one of the Guru's ( sorry, I forget which one to credit, Warp?) Idea of running a transformer and a solar input together. The panel produces the higher voltage and takes over from the transformer when it can and in low/ no light the transformer makes up the shortfall. Been using this idea and it's brilliantly simple and works well.
I was thinking limited inverter that puts in what it can at the time. Apart from the boot up delay, other drawback is wasting a string and inverter output when the AC isn't on if I can't figure out how to switch the power to another spinny meter phase.
Mad may have come to my rescue so that would be I think the far better solution.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 11:20am 22 Jan 2018
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You need to download the Zevercom manual, it has in there the details and gives you the model number for the energy meter which you can buy on Aliexpress. The Zevercom communicates with the inverter and energy meter via RS 485, it also gives you online monitoring.
Zeversolar have a range of inverters, the biggest I am aware of is 8KW 3 phase. I have a 5KW single phase, I have managed to blow it up a few times but that was not the inverters fault and I was able to repair it.
Disclaimer, I have not tried this, you need to do your own research, I am just pointing out what is available.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 11:38am 22 Jan 2018
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It costs less to make green power, the government has lobby groups and party donators pressuring them to maintain the coal status quo. How much money does it take to find the stuff in the ground, get the rites to dig it up, build a coal mine, dig the stuff out of the ground, transport it to another site, build a power station, build power lines to get the power to where it is needed?
Forget about the green aspect, just on financial benefits alone renewables are paying their own way and are going to get cheaper and better. Powering things with coal is 300 year old industrial revolution leftover technology. It would be like us using horses for transport to keep the oats and hay farmers happy that donate to the politicians.
You are right being green, in many ways is being used to make extra profit.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Mulver Senior Member Joined: 27/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 160
Posted: 01:26pm 22 Jan 2018
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This could be done with maybe a couple timers and 2 relays.
Ac turns on, relay connects inverter to smart meter phase. Ac turns off, relay disconnects, small time delay then another relay connects to spinny meter phase. Both relays can interlock each other so no sparks fly.
Something like that anyway.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 08:10pm 22 Jan 2018
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Just use a rectifier, some solar panels and an inverter. Cheers, Tony.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 12:23am 23 Jan 2018
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Care to give a bit more detail of the setup you are thinking Of?
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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