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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Battery Rescue?
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Rastus Guru  Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Isaiah, The charger case completely melted into the electronics,it was an arlec 4amp trickle charger with a separerate desulphator connected to the battery posts.I wrote it of to exsperience!However Bob's recent comment about the amphr rating of the battery matching the desulphater has me wondering if I can improve the match.Both battery's where 12v 180amphr & 220amphr rated,so the desulphater may not match the duty needed.Products of any sort perform better and for longer if they aren't maxed out all the time so using 30% to 50% of its capacity is a definate plus in my opinion.I'll have to find out more about the desulphator.The battery's had 3yr waranties and only lasted a short time longer.Like most my maintenance only included using baking soda as required to neutralise bridging currents,carefully avoiding contamination along with regularly checking specific gravity and adding distilled water as required.I'm in the habit of always buying larger battery's with higher cranking amps than needed with additional plates for trouble free service.These details may solicit further advise.Cheers Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Hi everyone, Still slogging away at seeding but I thought I better log in to see what you are all up to. I'm a bit envious that some of you have time to tinker in winter. I have had this bank of Batteries on the charger here for for two months now, the only ones that are in good nick are the back row and I am one short of the set( they are 2 volt jobbies). The GREAT thing about these is, they ALL have clear cases! If anyone is interested I can post some photo's of classic battery damage, its a lot easier to see and I don't have to cut the top off. 
I would also be happy to review to pro's and con's of the new cheap clamp meters that have a DC current function. This one is less than $100, its saved my bacon a number of times. 
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Yahoo2 It would be very interesting to see the start to finish of the desulphating process as a picture is worth a thousand words. I like your clamp meter, I bought one but it was useless, it continually cycles the display. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Everyone, I may be seeing things but, It seems to make a differance if you draw down a battery slowly to about 60% rated capasity, while the desulphinator is on it, and recharge the battery back up useing approx. a 10amp charge, the whole time leaveing the desulphinator on it, and repeating this in cycles, many times. Has anyone tried something along these lines? ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi mac it is true that the battery needs to be worked to help it recover, I have found that the sooner they can be included in the battery bank the better, the key is to leave the desulphator on all the time, but I wouldn't be drawing more than 20% for a while as the chemical action of releasing electricity is the formation of sulphate and if that happens to much in the deep cycling it can reinforce the sulphate as the crystals tend to reform on the weaker part of the plates while the stronger parts are overworked, try to draw no more than 30 % if you can. The charge rate for desulpation seems to work best with a minimal current 2 to 5 amps, but a heavy short term charge or discharge tends to liven the cells once the plates are clean. On the large glass cell batteries you can see it happening, but only superman can see through plastic. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
VK4AYQ, Thanks for the info on that, I'll adjust my regiment of proceedures. Right now I have 4 deep cycle batteries cabled together and treating them to a extended time on the desulphinator/trickle charger. At night I have them feeding a 15wt DC light bulb with only the desulphinator going to draw them down alittle, then during the day I turn on the trickel charger at about 10 amps DC, this tappers off by noon and is down to 3 to 4 amps. The up and down cycleing seems to have more effect but was'nt sure if I was correct. ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Mac46 and all So you know we have lost three of the marine type batteries we were working on this summer! Only one had a hi decibel event that is the one in the pictures above. One of the other ones set for 15 yrs and evidently it got the sulfur to hard and the other one went open, this last one started to come then acted like it had a circuit breaker built in and would go blank then it went down and wouldn't take a charge at all. The marine batteries seem to hard to reclaim but I hate to pass one up. We got two out of five. We have a guy not to far that sells battery's and I get to pick through the core pile and exchange cores, this time though he had mostly the cheap lawn mower batteries on the core pile. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Isaiah I have found that a problem with the fully cased batteries are the cell joiners, they seem to corrode faster and are not very substantial to start with, they will go high resistance as they try to conduct through the sulphate of just go open as yours has. Even though they are classified as deep cycle higher quality battery i think it is only a marketing ploy. All said and done if we can save a few and get some life out of them that is a positive, the ones we cant we could save the metal for battery experiments in the future. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Hi Isaiah, VK4AYQ, I was wanting information about the old time batteries that the plates were hand poured and assembled...I've done considerable reading on this, but have'nt came acrost any info about how thick the plates were. Thinking about pouring my own, as an experiment. Thanks in advance, ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac I had a set of plate molds for the big old glass cells they where 3/16 " thick and fluted vertically the top mounted into a plate holder that was lead soldered to the top of the plates. They where 10 inches wide by 18 inches deep a very substancial unit, they fitted a 1000 ah glass cell, I made a few for an exercise but never fitted any as the batteries where still going strong after 20 years. They had wooden separators approx 1/8" thick. According to the book when you re built them you charge cycled them for a week, I gather that was to build up the surface chemistry on the lead. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Hi VK4AYQ, Thanks for all that info, "What book", If I had the author, and tittle I might be able to run down a copy. My father remembers the glass batteries in the basement of the old farm house, but does'nt know any of the details...they were replaced by "mains power" when he was still a young boy. If you don't mind and don't have to speed considerable time looking for that book, I would like to have the author, tittle, copy right date, ect. Thank You, Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac I lost the book to the floods here in Queensland nearly forty years ago so not sure on the author. The title was: Repair and maintenance of stationary battery plant. Not 100% sure on the title, it was a very comprehensive book on all types of stationary battery installations High and low voltage. It dated back to before WW1 1926 -7 but was a reprint thereof. I bought it through the Technical book and magazine shop Swanson street Melbourne Australia in 1968. I have tried to get another copy over the years but no luck, you may have a better chance in the US as that is where it came from. It had an enormous amount of information about plant both DC and AC, it was used as a study book at college when I was studying. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Bub73 Senior Member  Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116 |
This is a long read and very old but I feel answers a lot of todays questions. THE AUTOMOBILE STORAGE BATTERY ITS CARE AND REPAIR 1922 0. A. WITTE http://www.powerstream.com/1922-FLA.htm You can even download a zipped copy free if you like it... Bob |
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| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
masc46 Look at ebay under antique battery the old books turn up there from time to time. There is a pair of the old type cell connectors on there at this time. Making your own would be some hot work! Make sure you use your safety equipment when you are messing with molten hot lead, You probably would want to do this outside or in a well ventilated area. If you are going to use old plates to make new plates that better be done out side where the fumes get away from you. On the up side this may not be a bad thing to learn the way the future looks in this country at this time. URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bub Thanks for posting the old book, is is very similar to the old one I had, but focusing on automotive batteries whereas the one I had deals with stationary battery plants, and the batteries where designed for long life rather than light weight. Principals where much the same though just bigger and heavier. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Isaiah,VK4AYQ,Bub73, Hello everyone, Thank you Bub73 for posting the book and author, I'll check it out. I have some experiance with pouring molten lead as I have replaced many poured bearings in the gear reducers at the power plant/boiler room, where I used to work. But you are correct for cautioning anyone from doing this, do it on a low humid day and preheat everything that will be even close to the molten lead...one drop of moisture and it will explode in you'r face, sending hot molten lead everywhere in all directions. I would recomend a full face shield, leather gloves, the whole 9 yards...including very good ventilation. You guys are correct on all this, thank you all for posting. ...Mac46 (I am not over-stateing the fact that it will explode). Be careful. I'm just a farmer |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Crew I'm jumping in a little late here, but I thought I'd throw in my 2-cent's worth on the hot lead thing. Many a plumber (back in the days when we poured lead soil joints on cast-iron pipes) has been kneeling over a lead pot only to have a drop of perspiration fall off his nose into the molten lead. To say it will EXPLODE IN YOUR FACE is an understatement. BEEN THERE; DONE THAT! The good news is, it only hurts for a short while, because pure lead boils the moisture on your skin and jumps off before it has a chance to stick to anything. Now, if you're luck is running on the low side and a chunk goes down your tee shirt or loose trousers, that's a horse of a different color. That burns until you get it out and a chunk of molten lead can really stretch out the clock. You'll swear it's been in your britches for a year when it's actually only a few seconds. For the doubters, I have a nice little scar that used to resemble the profile of a Porche on my right, inside wrist as a reminder of what hot lead can do. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mack I know the feeling I had a blob of lead go into the top of my elastic sided boots and sat on top of my foot till id burned through the skin, all the time I was doing a dance somewhere between a war dance and a rain dance. Still got the scar 40 years on, now if use lead I use leather sock protectors designed for electric welders as it runs of them without to much damage, pain is a great teacher. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Bob, The thread has moved on since your post on the 18 June,I hope you don't mind providing additional info about the desulphator you mentioned.I havn't found specs of ahr ratings for desulphators,although you mentioned an infinity 1000ah 24v desulphator.Would you provide a model no./name that I could track down please.I'm willing to get on board and try them.Your other projects are sparking my interest as well,thanks for the regular updates.Cheers Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi rastus The ones I use are from www.infinitumstore.com check out their site and it will explain all, I am using 6 at the moment and found them very reliable and high energy. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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