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Forum Index : Electronics : Bryan's Inverter build
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Bryan1 Guru  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well checked today and still no change it's still in fault mode so I thought better to check the current draw on the battery and 4.4 amps was the reading, but when i zero'd the clamp meter it was showing less than a amp draw. So it does look like the toroid will be OK to use again. Pic's will come when I start stripping this Kipoint inverter as it was custom made for me back in '05 which did get this type of inverter on the market. Many years ago I contacted Kipoint asking for info on this inverter and told the story. This enginear designed that inverter and went out on his own and made his fortune then retired to a good life. So it will be a good insight to what he did back in the day and this is way before the Oz inverter came about off memory. Cheers Bryan Edit: while I was writing this post I was thinking the best guy to decipher this circuit is by far is Rodger so sent a PM to him. Edited 2024-02-24 14:02 by Bryan1 |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
Hi Bryan have you checked the Kipoint inverter over. As it was built so long ago , some of the electrolytic capacitors may have just dried up. If so they can be replaced fairly easily. I did some hunting this week and got some wire for my transformer. I am hoping to be able to pull around 3kw when the sun shines so put together a core from two torroids, 180mm od 90mm id and 100mm high. I found that the 90mm id is pretty tight for a 14 volt inverter. I wound the secondary ( 230 volt winding) with 2.8mm wire and then got hold of some flat bar for the primary. It is fibreglass insulated bar that is 12mm wide and 3.5mm thick. So that works out to be 42mm squared. I only just had enough room in the core to fit it. If I were to make any more 24 volt transformers I would increase the ID of the core to at min 110mm. More if I was going to use battery lead for primary cable. The 2.8mm wire works out to be 6.158 square mm so going by the 4 amps per square mm rule it should be fine for 24.6 amps, So should handle my car charger fine. The primary is close to the mark at 42 mm squared so should handle 168 amps. This transformer works out to be good for around 3.5kw at best. So make sure that your transformers are big enough. I made mine oversized as I want to be able to pull 3kw when the sun is out and we are charging the car. Have fun and hopefully you can get the home made inverters going fine and maybe even repair the kipoint. Pete |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Pete when I did the test run with this cheap inverter I built doing the load test with 2 vacuums drawing 3.5Kw ran fine and I did try my air compressor and mig welder which all ran fine.I I reckon I killed the surge on this kipoint years ago when I welded up the 2 ovens on this 1850's stove I got here for a total rebuild. Went from a 24 volt 735AH fully charged battery to one flat battery when I finished and that inverter took it all in it's stride. The next weekend it wouldn't run my 8" bench grinder or even a 6" one so I did know it was on it's last legs, that was a few years ago too and upto this weekend powered my shed fridge fine. I did find I had 2 connectors left off the ching board I got so it will be a case of powering my soldering iron off the inverter outlet to connect the shed grid power. May get to it tomorrow but it does look like next weeks job and I have taken the solar input off the battery as it is fully charged. Many years ago I sent 25 off 50x15mm round neo's to Oztules and he made an electric car out of old car batteries and just used that dual axial flux wind genny he made using those magnets to charge it. So more then likely I will go that way with my 4Kw motor conversion and with plenty of hills on my place it will be a test for it  Cheers Bryan Edited 2024-02-24 17:49 by Bryan1 |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
G'Day Guy's, So I took the inverter over to see Rodger and after we hooked it up still had the same fault, so had a good look and Rodger sprayed some gunk onto some of the connectors to ensure they made contact etc. Anyway I did suspect the green power pot was suspect and when I turned the pot the second led went green so the fault was gone. We decided to take that led board out where we found yes that pot was worn out, now the original pot was 5K and as only a 10K was available that was put in as a replacement. Hooked the board back up and sure enough 2 green leds so I used the heat gun on full setting and it ran fine.  Next was to test a big load so we tired the air compressor and honestly the inverter nearly had it going before going into fault mode.So we tried the pool pumps, with both running about 2Kw's found at first turning both pumps at the same time didn't work but turning one on then the other after did work so we had 2Kw load and left it running until the fan came on the inverter. So for an inverter close to 20 years old is back to run for a few more years as a 2Kw inverter at best. Now I'm going to setup my other inverter so when I do need that extra power it's there but for low power stuff like my machineshop this old inverter just worked before so it will be good to see if it still does. Cheers Bryan |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
G'Day Guy's, Well that kipoint inverter is on it's final day as when I turn it on the light bulbs are flickering etc and today I finally got some crimp connectors so I can attach the 240 volt lead for the shed on my first inverter build. Then with luck my mig welder will be back in action and I'll have some decent power back in my shed. Now as I did go in the group buy for the madness inverter over time I did get all the components to finish it so may aswell build that one so I can learn a bit more about the inverter workings etc before I start on the Wiseguy inverters. I do think as I have those big fets 3 each leg should be enough to handle what is thrown at it. Now once this inverter is built and tested it is time for a Tasi holiday as this inverter is going to my mate who lives off grid down there. Regards Bryan |
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Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1027 |
Bryan, The Mad inverter I have is still working well, and is the Oz inverter I tried first, However IF you cant get a reliable source for the 8010 chip too hard to solder, you could go with the Picoverter as it is compatible with the 10 pin connector and will just plug in, the nano can be programmed for low voltage cutoff etc, well worth looking into as its easy to build and low parts count. Hope I have this all correct  https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=13650&P=7 Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well this Mad inverter build just got a new twist I do have an old variac here I blew the fuse on trying an old water element I had here. Lost the fuse for it and got the tape measure out so around 200mm diameter and 80mm high, it does look to have 1.6mm wiring on it and as the name plate say it's good for 2.4Kw so thats is going to be the donor toriod for this build. Now I have been trying different configs of chokes now I have the Altronics LC meter and this small toriod with 7 turns of my enameled wire got 12 mH so I may need to setup pin 9 on a nano to test it first as I do have the scope here to look at the knee. I do have a couple of 8010 boards here so if Eddy is looking he can have one if he wants as I did get a couple for my first inverter build. Cheers Bryan |
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wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Hey Bryan, that toroid/choke sounds wrong and may be just ferrite material as for a common mode choke, and not made up of iron dust material. The choke for an inverter should be more like 40uH or ~ 300 times less than 12 mH??? If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
G'Day Guy's, Well that old Variac has become a donor for my inverter projects.  It was a bit of fun to get apart with generation old phillip head screws need a touch with a chisel to get them moving.  The wire is 1.2mm and 347 turns so hopefully this can be used. Now the bottom plate is there loose and with a 80mm hole plenty of room to put a decent primary in. Regards Bryan Edited 2024-07-28 11:59 by Bryan1 |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well Guy's atleast for the next month I'm officially retired just turned 60 and everything but 5K is coming from my super my way in the next week.So YES finally have time to finish some projects and also look to repair those MTTP boards as while working nightshift and making the boards over several months just let out the smoke on both of them. So this week I will try and get both of them going again as this victron MTTP is boiling the hell out of my forklift battery to the point of a few cells raising so basically when the battery is charged current is still going in so a talk with the 12 volt shop is on the cards saying yes these 100/50 MPPT's do charge the batteries but they don't stop charging them. I noticed just after lunch today after I measured the SG the batteries were full charged but the MPPT was still putting 30 -50 amps in the batteries. Now as I have 99% of the parts to finally build a Mad Inverter I do have 2 choices to use that huge E-core where I have all the material to make the former or this toroid off the variac. Yes it far more work but less painful on the fingers to wind the secondary in my lathe than to rewind this toriod from the variac. Mike did say I could get away with using a of those HY5608's on the board which will leave enough for Mike's first board. I do need to get some more soldering practice before I tackle Mike's new inverter board as all the parts still need to be ordered including new toriods from AEM where I have found yes the can do do a winding service. So if I have to stack 3 toriods does one have to wind each toriod or can one span over all 3 do the same job. Also this would work out cheaper at AEM. Also I'm going to stick on 24 volts as eh my 4Kw is going to finally get up in the air. Repaired the door on the shearing shed today and that shed is going to powered up for the first time as I start my business. Bought 6.3Kw of solar and also got a 5Kw output grid tie inverter so the plan is use the the grid tie thru the day and switch if the output goes down on the grid tie. Now I did get a quote for a 48V 1000AH forklift battery 10K for the battery and no charger. I have found out these are Chinese forklift batteries and they do come with a 5 year warranty so going with 12 of them for a 24 volt array will give give a new supply for the house as 12 years this 600AH has done our house and the upgrade does need to be done. Well got enough questions for this post so... Regards Bryan |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
Interested in what you wrote about the victron 100/50 regulators. I still have one in my system, and I have noticed that it still pumps quite a bit of current into the batteries after the other regulators have gone into float mode. There are adjustments on them for different battery chemistries, but mine is set correctly for my VRLA batteries. I may swap it out for one of my spare regulators after reading what you wrote. Good luck with the inverter build Pete |
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poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1422 |
the Victron 100/15 mppt in the camper is working well (the way it works is not good, but it does regulate battery voltage accurately) I have 2 x 100 Ah 12 Lithium batteries in parallel. The Absorb voltage is set manually by me, I did not choose any type of battery from the supplied list on the device's config screen. All the pre-configured battery options were useless for my battery. I have seen it regulate the required 14.1V absorb voltage and keep it there +/- 0.1V . This voltage is shown on the bluetooth connected phone app as 14.1V and it's confirmed to be 14.1V with the Fluke 27 DMM (meter) After all this, I want to ask you if you can choose custom settings for absorb and float voltages and if if so, have you done so? wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1685 |
Wind one primary winding and one secondary winding around the 3 stacked bare toroids. Less wire lenght and turns. It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Hi Poida I have set the voltages for all 3 settings for absorb and float I had them set to 29.5 volts, yesterday I dropped them to 29 volts. Now equalization was set to 28.5 volts. Just went and checked and the batteries are on 1022 so 2 points of fully charged with around 1.2-1.4 Kw of solar going in and around 40 amps. Now to confirm the battery it's a 24 volt 600AH forklift battery that has powered our house for over a decade. Now I have only connected the 1.9Kw array as I have found that is a good match and when I can get my brain around the grid tie the 1.5Kw array can be used for that so the batteries are charged and unloaded thru the day and I can finally install a split system aircon so when the sun is shining the house can stay cool. The house inverter has been going since '04 24/7 and it's a SA32 Selectronic Inverter also the 80 amp Staff & Stanbury 80 amp battery charger is still going and I bought a 4Kw petrol genset for powering it after the 7.8Kw genset blew the run cap and getting a new one out of paramount brown's is like pulling a tooth. Now that 4Kw will run for a good 8 hours on one tank of fuel and still have enough for another run. I will monitor the charge cycle today and see how it goes. Regards Bryan Edit: Just went and checked and the 100/50 is showing the battery is in absorb mode, now checking with expert mode the absord duration was set to 6 hours so I changed it to 2 hours. So soon hopefully it go into float mode then I'll check the current going in. Edited 2024-08-12 12:05 by Bryan1 |
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| nickskethisniks Guru Joined: 17/10/2017 Location: BelgiumPosts: 458 |
You can wind your primary for both 24V and 48V, so you still have the option to switch later. |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well got onto Digikey today and ordered all the parts apart from the 18V zener and the 10nf 3Kv caps as digikey just wouldn't show them in stock. Got a bit more done on the heat sinks and I'm using the old AeroSharp heatsink where a heap of cutting is needed to get each one in shape. Now my original plan was 3 HY5608 fets per leg and as I do have 25 of them here and another 50 coming may aswell fill the board as I'm sure it will make a nice robust inverter. Also went with 10,000 uf 63 volt caps so when I do decide to go 48 volts this inverter will handle it. Regards Bryan |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well how reirement can take a twist everyday, Just had a look on FB market place and scored for $400 a 3Kw Sunnyboy and a 5Kw Frontuis along with 16 kaneka solar panels. I did need to find a new grid tie inverter to use for my 1.5Kw solar thats just sitting on the roof and a second 5Kw inverter will help power up the shearing shed. Now those parts for the Mad inverter will be here when I get back but with still needing a toroid it is time to get to get onto getting those toroids from AEMCores now as I'm going all out and putting 24 fets in I do think for my first quote going 3 off toroids and see if I can get them wound. The question is by stacking 3 cores how many secondary turns are needed as that is all I'm worried about as it does need to be right and I do think this Mad board can go thru my trials of using a 3600 watt element and a 2400 watt element on a controller and see how it goes over 12 hours if a run takes long. Still got to finish the heat sinks and got 24 off M3 holes to tap so the question is again do those fets need to be isolated as I don't want to down my first MTTP mistake. Regards Bryan |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well another twist when driving home with all the gear my beloved '95 hilux engine cut out on me with smoke coming out the bonnet  so had to get a tilt tray truck to get the ute home.Anyway got both datasheets for these grid tie inverters and the Sunny Boy is heavy as so it does have a toroid buried in there, now it did come with a circuit breaker box so the PV and the output can be isolated. So it will be an easy connection setup but I do have to get on the roof to rewire the 1.5Kw array all in series to get over 300 volts so the grid tie is happy. The idea behind this with a hot summer coming on when ever the sun shines a split system aircon will be going to keep the house cool. Regards Bryan |
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| Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458 |
I hope the ute is not damaged too much. As far as transformer turns go, I use a simple spreadsheet calculator that I got from the internet. I just have to put in the core size, wire size, voltages and it gives the turns and length of wire needed. There are quite a few calculators online that make the job easy. Have fun with the setup of the new GTI inverters and take care with the DC voltages, Pete |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1352 |
Well drained the oil this morning on the ute and went and got 5 litres of oil and a new filter. So changed the oil and let it sit over lunch and after a few hard cranks it fired up and purrs along nicely. So got lucky on that me thinks....Now on putting this Sunny Boy inverter in there is a circuit breaker to isolate both solar arrays and another circuit breaker in the new box I got with it where a circuit breaker for the output too. |
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