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Forum Index : Solar : Deciding if I should build this solar heater
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| rogerdw Guru  Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Interesting observation ... and you're right, why does it vary so much? My early charts until 04/08/21 were with a standard data logger ... and with those the temp sensor was inside the plastic body of the logger. Of course there was a fair bit of thermal lag ... which is what's needed for their intended purpose ... but I wanted to see a bit more detail ... so that's when I fitted new sensors that are really tiny ... and therefore much more responsive. I also fitted those sensors to two other loggers ... but I fitted the sensors externally so they'd be really quick acting ... and that has worked nicely. The original loggers, if you took them from say 20 degrees out into the cold at 10 degrees ... it would take 20 mins to float down to the actual temperature. Makes for nice smooth graphs ... but like I said, I wanted more detail. Now, they are pretty much a few seconds to get to temperature. So, all that to say that the sun actually does vary constantly ... even with a seemingly clear sky. I've never logged the output of solar panels ... but I suspect they should do the exact same thing ... does anyone else know??? I wasn't in the house much today ... out doing all those things you asked about the other day. Finished rotary cultivating the paddock, slashed the roadsides and some of the back yard ... tore down a fence that has been in the way for years ... though I didn't get to slash under the fences yet ... need to strap on the big Honda for that.  Yes, I think that fits with the legend on the front. Pity. That's pretty healthy all the same ... and yeah, those farms must see huge swings. Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Ahhh ... of course ... that makes more sense than the sun variation. Maybe I should refit the original to that particular logger. The reason I did the other two was because I could turn on the fan when the tubes were hot ... and while my Owon multimeter would instantly show the temperature coming out the outlet ... the logger could take literaly 5 mins to reach temperature. In that time, the actual temperature could go from 70 degrees down to 40 degrees, while the logger might only reach a maximum of 55 degrees before it started heading down again. Not so important now that I have the differential controller cutting in and out at much smaller swings. Good idea. Since canning Facebook a month ago (except marketplace) I've also gone back to avoiding all news like I had done for years. If something major happens, I always hear about it from somewhere ... but it's a lot less distracting and troubling than actively looking for all the bad news.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Glad your bead thermistors have turned up. I bought a x100 bag of the 100K, and a x50 bag of the 50K ones a couple of years ago. Ordered the selection of ten values of each from 1K to 100K about the same time you ordered yours, thought they might come in useful one day. They are extremely fast acting, even just breathing on them drives them crazy, which I think is what may be happening. In dead still air out in the sun they will get quite hot, just like your tubes. Even a very slight air movement will instantly cool them down. If you ever run out of the 100K ones, let me know, I have plenty here, they are worth less than a couple of cents each. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yes, I don't know why I didn't wake up to that before Dave pointed it out. In hindsight I think the original thermistor fitted inside the case is probably the best arrangement for the logger in the sun. When I first fitted the new thermistor I also changed the recording interval from once per minute to every 10 seconds. That was so noisy and distracting that I immediately changed it back to minute intervals. Thanks for the offer, I'll keep that in mind. I did buy a few of the one wire sensors to hook up to a raspberry pi but other than a bit of a play, haven't done any more with them. They are fairly large devices so will probably be pretty slow acting as well ... though there is no real need for instant action with the controller I need. Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Would seem then that the setup as it is would be more measuring air temp that sun temp. That's probably why when there was a dip in tube and output temp there wasn't near such a decrease in the sun temp logger. That's actually interesting in how little the direct sun seems to be having an effect on it. not sure how you measure temp in the sun without air temp coming into it as a major influence? Maybe you need the sensor thermally bonded to something like a small plate that's painted black or Mid grey so it's more influenced by radiation than air temp. Other thing would be a Solar cell and measure the current that produces but that would be measuring light levels I think. What is the reason for measuring sun rather than air temp? |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
The fast responding thermistors can be quite useful for some things, but a damned nuisance for other things. Its certainly possible to add a bit of thermal mass by enclosing the bead into something larger. Slip it into a crimp lug for example, held in place with a bit of silicon grease or epoxy. Then bolt the lug onto whatever you are trying to temperature measure. Its interesting that a two cent thermistor epoxied into a hollow stainless steel temperature probe can suddenly be worth several tens of dollars. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Haha, no idea ... seemed like a good idea at the time. I think my reasoning was that I was hoping/expecting to see a correlation between the temperature in the sun and the temperature in the tubes. In fact I was always going to buy a light meter and log the light levels ... but I held off because I'd already spent a small fortune on equipment. Yes, I've seen that done a few times. I probably should just refit the original thermistor which already had a big glob of material over it. Haha ... and here's old gullible me thinking they are that price because they are better quality or something. Here's todays results ... another high if I remember correctly ... 8.1 degrees Of course helped by the fact that it was a beautiful day.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Surely smart men like you and Tony can figure something out to measure Light. Ignorant amateur suggestion.... What about modifying the data logger with a solar cell or an LED and just add resistance or amplification as required? I -THINK- you had an 8.2 one day but irrelevant. With the high you are getting, you are approaching or at as high as you would want to go anyway. You could get the place warmer for better heat soak but I see drawbacks in that... like the ones I am seeing. Great to warm the place right up or even be out in the sun as I have been last few days actually working up a sweat. Problem is, one comes in, Thinks it's Chilly in here then discovered it's warmer than what you have been running the place all winter and thought it was fine. I was almost blinded yesterday when I went out and saw this intense Reflection. Thought it was a Mirror fallen off a space craft or something that had landed in the yard but turned out just to be the Mrs and Daughter pretending to be Albino solar panels laying on the lawn chairs. Man they are pasty white! Problem was they came in and were also complaining of the place being cold. Acclimatisation can work for and against you. You may get the place too warm through the day then that 8+ degree drop is going to feel icy. They will have you stoking the fire like the boiler on the Orient Express. The temp rise curve on this heater seems pretty gradual ( can't make out the times on the graph) But you'll certainly hit that a lot sooner with the big unit. You may want then to speed up the fan so as to get the heating power without getting too much temp rise or use another damper to mix the air to maintain a set temp. This would help heat soak the place without Slow roasting the Budgerigar and the Goldfish. Yes, same here. The predicted smoke haze didn't show and was back up to 63 Kwh for the day. I believe smoke is far worse than cloud. I think the cloud edge magnification effect plays a part even in lighter blanket cover. Certainly one can seem to get much better generation when the cloud is thicker than when there is even light smoke haze. The smoke just seems to really knock the generation on its head. More haze predicted today but the wind is back up again but it does not seem full bright. See how we go. I shelved some of my projects yesterday. Couldn't stand to see them sitting round any more and too bummed that I can't finish them. Lockup has got worse here now and time this finishes, if ever, I'll be sweating trying to dream up cooling ideas. I was really keen to get them up and running and finally when I get the motivation and over my procrastination, other things stuff me up. It's got beyond a joke and not doing my head any good what so ever. Put the engine and motor for the co gen away and tidying up a couple of other projects as well that for once were not my fault for not finishing. Stuff I had got and was ready I couldn't use because couldn't get what I needed first. I left the IMAG out as that's up and running and I'll do some testing with that at least. Needs an exhaust and sound insulation as well as other things the Co-gen and the veg heater need. I started Building a fairly large Furnace yesterday. I think I have everything I need for that and found some Ally and brass I put away to melt Down. Maybe I will start working on the water tank cooler. If I start now I might have time to re order the fittings I missed the first and second times and have that ready when the summer heat and Parole arrives. Working on heaters in Summer just isn't something I can get my limited brain capacity around but I'll have to try and push myself because I have no doubt they will come up with excuses to try on this tyrannical BS again next winter. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
A light meter is not what you need. A lot of solar energy falls well outside the visible light spectrum which is all a light meter measures. Ideal for photography though. What you need is a solar pyranometer that measures radiant heat as well as light. The classic solar pyranometer has alternating black and totally reflective silver surfaces under a protective clear dome. Temperature DIFFERENCE between the black and reflective surfaces gives a pretty good indication of total incident solar radiation from deep infrared through the visible to ultraviolet. Its usually the millivolt output from a thermopile that is measured. Decades ago we used Breck Bowles pyranometers an Australian made sensor, I have no idea if they are still available. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Actually I had wondered the exact same thing, but didn't really have much idea how to do it ... then I figured even if I bought or built one ... it's going to tell me that more sunlight equals more output, and I can't change the amount of sunlight no matter how hard I try, so I forgot about it. Yes you could be right, though I find that when I come in and it feels cozy warm still ... I think that it's nice and comfortable (maybe bordering on warm enough) ... but when evening comes around it still cools off pretty quick ... and if I don't light the fire reasonably soon, suddenly we're all cold. It also now has me thinking about what to try as the days get warmer. This morning as I was starting work I spotted a length of flexible ducting that I had bought but hadn't used yet ... so I took it in and fitted it on the end of the outlet. It then hung down to within a few inches of the floor and directed the warmth onto the tiles. The first thing I noticed an hour later was that the temperature sensor that's only 18 inches off the floor (providing the room temp for the differential controller) was showing a couple degrees higher than usual ... and the one in the opposite corner of the room was a degree and a half lower than normal ... ie. both around the same temperature. The air coming out the duct didn't feel as warm as usual ... but then I noticed the duct itself was quite warm. The tile under the outlet became quite warm ... but the adjacent ones didn't heat much if at all. A question I am forming is ... if the air is directed to the floor (a wider area) and warms that up more ... will that mean the room temperature will not go so high ... but store more heat for our heatsoaking aim? Haha, I wondered where you were going for a moment. Just as well they're not likely to be reading the forum. Yes, it is a slow process and hopefully the big one will be a lot quicker. Sorry about the time scale ... coz the loggers record every minute, it spits out the data as a number of 'points' ... The problem is that the related time scales aren't anything sensible like every 10 or 15 minutes ... so I have to physically type in the actual times for every chart ... just too time consuming to do. I find that if I'm reading it on a pc ... I hold down the ctrl key and roll the mouse thumbwheel to zoom in so I can read it. It's a nuisance, but it works well enough. That's gotta make you feel good seeing those sort of numbers. Where's the smoke coming from, have you got fires already? Sorry to hear that, must be frustrating. Still, always plenty of new ideas to try ... or at least dream up, if you can't get out to pick up what you need to try them. Sounds like the topic for a new video?  Yeah it doesn't feel right and is hard to feel motivated when you know you can't make use of it for 6 months. That's why I desperately wanted to have my new one up before the cool season finished ... otherwise it'll go on the backburner too ... and then I'll still only get it going half way through next winter. I did look at prices for those things but the cheapest I saw was up around $180 ... right up to $800+. Is there any value in monitoring those readings at all? As I mentioned above, I figured it wasn't worthwhile so just canned the idea. Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
That is a fair point. You could get that off a Cheap PWM converter and one of your solar panels. Put a dummy load on the panel and the controller will tell you how much power it sent. As you say, not a lot of point though. I find exactly the same thing. I can come in and the place is perfectly up to or a degree above desired temp. If I don't put the fan or diesel heater even on low, the temp falls, feels cold and never seems to get warm again. I tried this earlier with the Diesel. I made a Hot spot on the floor and as you say, the heat bouncing off the floor didn't seem much, pretty weak in my case and I knew it was coming out over 80o. I was disappointed to find that hot spot faded REAL fast. Makes sense, there are probably 50 Ton of concrete wanting to leach that heat away. I guess if you get it away from the walls it would disperse into the slab and probably an amount into the earth which probably is a cold offset. Given the amount of energy to raise even a couple of Sqm a couple of degrees, I think working on the furniture and walls might be a better idea. Instead of heating the one room, maybe running the ac Fan to disperse the heat throughout the house or even put a large conventional fan on a thermostat so it pushes the heat father afield in the house so there is more energy absorbed but the walls and furniture over all? They would not be surprised to read anything I write here. All Measured compared to what I say to their faces.  Yes I tried that but it just goes all grainy due to lack of res. Not to worry. Today was 64Kwh which was nice. I believe the smoke is coming from distant backburns. Not a lot round here to burn now. Had weeks of Water bombing planes and choppers flying over summer before last. I was bumming round the yard today trying to clean things up and found a draft burner I did last year. Put out loads of heat but was smoky at higher outputs and I didn't feel it was all it should be even though I liked it. I picked it up today, looked at it and said I know what's wrong. Took it to the shed, hit it with the plasma cutter to put some secondary air ports of a type I haven't tried before, and wondered why, and fired the thing up. Been very windy here since early afternoon but the thing runs like a champ now, even in the high wind. Still a bit of smoke haze but that could or may not be due to the wind. It hasn't gone out though and I just topped it up again and it's been burning fine for about 9 hours now. I think I will see about ordering some steel for a Big heat exchanger. Wanted to build one for years but think it's time. This burner with a Timer for fuel feed may be OK for house heating. I'll have to measure the consumption to ascertain the output but may be OK. Yes, that was precisely the idea. It will be built from nothing more than dirt and a bit of stale concrete I have up there. I did one before and it was pretty good. I think you can make a furnace out of anything if you throw enough heat at it and I can throw as much heat as I want. I worked out I can produce more than the heat the fire in a steam train boiler produces with coal. That was an eye opener. The BIG burners however are in hot air balloons of all things. They are in the 3 MW range which is pretty amazing. That would melt some metal! I'm trying to get prepared with things atm. I always leave planting the summer veggies too late for Christmas but I'm on that this year. Least a month early so plenty of time. I thought I'd look at that tank cooling idea now so time it's done I'll have opportunity to use it. Plus most of it can be converted for the Veg heater. I found my old light meter earlier this year. I paid almost $2000 Bucks for that when I bought it way back. I looked them up on flea bay thinking like most things from the film days, they would be worth squat now. To my amazement, they haven't dropped much in price at all and even being rather old tech, are still regarded as the meter to have. The newer versions have more bells and whistles but the old meters are thought of it seems like Chromed bumper Mercedes.... The good ones before things went downhill and cheaply made. They don't do logging though. Just about everything else, I only ever used about 10% of the things functions and the most regular was about 5% of it's capability. I did play with it again and found in the difficult situations, still out did the 20 Yr Newer built in meters that the camera manufactures make so much of. Then again, I can look at those situations now and just dial in some Bias and get it spot on 99% of the time. Pulling out a hand held meter is still a great way to look seriously " Pro" and impress clients and intimidate the Johnny come latleys that have only shot film as a Curiosity. Pull out the old Minolta, Click it round a bit especially if you use the optical spot finder you have to look though, Put on that deep in though, educated eccentric artist facade and the clients won't be game to question your pricing or design decisions. Best of all, as I learned very early on, If you make a mistake, show it off, make a fuss, waffle on with some BS about the light and Contours and crap ,call it art and you are a visionary Genius!...no matter how bad you screwed up. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I have found the exact same thing. Some good professional quality test equipment can hold its value for decades. I have a really good air fuel ratio meter I bought for about the same amount, and they are still worth that today secondhand. Also a top quality sound level meter worth a few hundred, which has held its value too. I don't think you really need a solar pyranometer, its something I have never owned or ever really found the need for. I do have a couple of Chinese dc wattmeters though. Modern Australian homes are pretty awful thermally. Building regulations only require insulation in the ceilings, and a foil vapor barrier in the outside walls. You are basically sitting in a thin plasterboard box, with stone cold brick beyond, and a cold slab floor below. As soon as the sun sets, the cold hits you. Large windows don't help either. I am more fortunate (in a way) my home is a very old weatherboard, high ceilings, small windows, and a plank floor. It also has a pitched roof that is flat at the ends and very easily ventilated. Over the years with multiple renovations and repainting I have insulated all the walls, even the internal walls! Ceiling is insulated and roof space arranged for any breeze to blow straight through. In summer its barely hotter in the roof space than outside. There is very low thermal mass, and it stays warm in winter and cool in summer with very little energy required to keep it that way. Its the crappiest looking house in the street, but probably the most comfortable and definitely the cheapest to live in. It was easy to lift a few weatherboards and feed fiberglass bats into the outside walls when repainting. With brick veneer, I don't know what you can do. Maybe pump in polyurethane foam into the cavity through small holes ??? It may be possible, I really do not know. But it will make a huge difference if you can figure out a way. Insulating the inside walls made a tremendous difference too. I can heat or cool individual rooms to a comfortable level very quickly. Its a nice cozy little nest here, and I have no desire to rebuild, even if I could afford to do so. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
And probably the most solidly built with pride and real skill and your renovations would have only made it so much better. Old houses have character and personality and while you might say it looks crappy, I'd probably say it does not look like the cardboard rinse and repeat rubbish they build whole suburbs out of round here. People must have to go by the house Number because they are all the same design, the same Colour, the same damn letter box even. Long,straight streets of the EXACT same dogbox. When we renoed the Kitchen here, the tiler ran a string line along one wall and it had waves of an inch or a fraction over along it's length. Wasn't just a bow, it was multiple in and out waves. Ugggh! Lucky the guy was smart and had a good eye, He started with half cut tiles which allowed him to vary the edge along the wall so the line for the next tile was all straight. They obviously dispensed with string lines when they built the place and just used "The Force" when setting things out. Sounds so nice and comfortable. Why would you ever WANT to leave a house like that when you have got it so good? You are correct, the insulation on new houses is minimal to start with an put in with no care, only great haste to get it done. Long as it's there, good enough. I never saw 1 house when I looked at the 100 or so to find this one that even mentioned efficient design. Hard to know if they are or are not anyway. Not like they are going to let you tear some wall out or cut the slab for a look see. If you left your home the only way to get what you have would be to do it yourself all over again. My neighbours are talking about selling soon. They are going bush like a lot of others fed up with suburban Lock-ups. It will be interesting to see what they get for the place. Around here the prices are going nuts. If the neighbour gets near what she thinks, and I'm starting to see a lot of evidence she will, then I think I'll start talking to the Mrs about pulling stumps and going a little further out as well. We could well make $800K on what we bought the place for 4 years ago and if the neighbour gets what they think, that's pretty much guaranteed. Not much further out the places have been more stable but I am also seeing signs with development further out again they could also start to shoot up in the not too distant Future. Although a good 20Km away, I think the 2nd airport is having an influence on that. Won't be a problem here, they have to give good distance to the local airport and surrounds. I would look a lot differently at perspective places than what I did with this one. I have learned a lot from being here and reading these and other places and with my solar mucking around. We bought this place at the worst possible time when houses were literally selling in 30 Min. I think we actually bought this one in 20. Didn't want to buy then but so many factors came into play that forced our hand. It's not a terrible place, quite the opposite but there are a lot of things that just don't really suit me. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yes, seems it would need a lot of heat for a long time to warm that up. I was kinda planning on having several outlets around the house with the new one, so will hopefully help distribute it a little better. Then if it gets too hot, I guess I'll just use a thermostat to switch it off. Haha, I should have known that. Yes, I'm sorry ... I think it used to be ok but as the image has got bigger the file size has too and it won't upload ... so I had to reduce the resolution for it to go through. It's surprising how a break from a job allows new ideas to come in and help solve problems. I find the same thing with repairs ... if I can just stop long enough to have break from it and come back later after a coffee or fixing something else ... it's amazing how often I have it fixed in five minutes despite having spent hours on it before. Cool, another video topic. Why am I not surprised that you could pull that off very easily. Until you explained that in the past I would have had trouble understanding the idea ... but it does make a lot of sense. Having always lived in homes with huge thermal mass, I didn't realise there was another side to it all. The only problem for me if I lived in your house Tony is that everyone else would have to have the aircon or heater on in every room ... in case they might go in there later ... heaven forbid they'd have to wait for it to warm up or cool down. Yes, I suppose I could slide back a few tiles and squirt some in. I did see an ad recently for some fireproof expanding foam, from Bostick I think it was ... though I'd need to find some bigger containers than the usual pressure paks. I'll have to poke a camera into the cavities around the place to see what's there now. Faaarrrr out Dave ... that's a huge amount of money difference. And only in 4 years!!! We have a nice place here, but in 6 years I doubt ours would have gone up $100K ... and only in the last 12 months have prices started to firm up a little. You should think about moving states ... $800k on its own would buy a very, very nice place on acres around here. Glad I have no ambitions to move to Sydney ... we'd be living in the poor house for sure. Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
I can completely relate to exactly what you are saying. I can't even get them to turn a TV off here lest they are coming back to it sometime in the next hour.... or so. I'm obviously no builder but I was of the opinion that to do insulation properly, however pedantic that is, you are supposed to have a thermal break between the studs and the walls. Might be like solar, that is for 100% result and having them attached give a 90% result. Still better than nothing by a mile. As far as I'm aware, the studs have the outer and innerwalls attached, I think you would have to drill through the Noggins and get the foam in that way. May be just easier to bore some small holes in the plaster and pump the foam in that way then patch them which isn't hard. I'd hate to think of the cost of the spray foam. Weren't they Blowing something into the walls to insulate them through the outer or inner skin? Something like the stuff they use in roofs as well? When we decided to sell my last place, we got some valuations and the agents said we'd be pushing to get 600K. 3 Years later -I- sold the place myself for double that. Combination of values going up in part thanks to a re zoning ( which was rescinded months after the Buyer finally settled after having mucked us around) and partially though me not being a Chicken ship order taker like the agents and sticking to my guns and getting the price I wanted. I would NEVER bother with an agent. Sold the house before the last one as well myself and made 40% more on the sale price than the agents told me I could get... and then subsequently told me I was lying till the sale was registered. Turds! Didn't have to pay them their exorbitant BS fees either. Last place cost me $78 to sell. Drew up a sign on the computer, took it down to office works and had the largest print they did and laminated which was twice the usual RE sign size, Got some plywood from the factory pallet pile which I mounted it to and propped it up on some star posts.... and put a couple of floodlights I had on it for good measure. What the hell you need an agent for in this day and age?? I broached the Subject with the Mrs tonight. She wanted to light the fire pit and sit outside for a while. I mentioned to her what a couple of the places in the next street had gone for which she already knew as it turned out. Mentioned next door thought they could get 2.3 for theirs and she seemed to think it might be a bit of a stretch but if they cleaned up the place a bit they would get it. I said well if they get that, we would standing on our heads and we could go a bit further out and get something really nice. She arked up at that. She is very protective about anything I say about this place and the idea of moving. We got handed the keys somewhat unexpectedly on the date of an anniversary ( not our wedding) and I think that is the reason of the attachment. I think a person would have to be nuts to want to move to Sydney. Maybe if you had $5m+ to live in an upmarket area with great views or something but $5m wont even get you near the best house 5min radius from here and we are an hour from the city on the fringe of suburbia. Could point out a lot of houses over $5m 5 min from here though. It's nuts! No matter where you go, you can't get away from the traffic and overcrowding. So many houses that are sold are knocked over and turned into Duplexes or town houses or apartments. Roads are a Joke, Public transport is a bigger one. Only upside is the medical facilities are good if you are crook and if you are REALLY crook, seems Sydney is where they send you even from Qld and Vic. Spoke to my mate who has a place down the road today. The developers have come round again and now offered him $1.5M an acre for his 31 acre block. Reasonable 30 Yo home on it and a big old tin shed he works from but that's about it. It is clear though, with only a few trees and pretty level. Said he's OK for now and not in a hurry to sell as his mother lives there and she does not want to move. He has a small but very nice place he has done up beautifully right in the town. As he said, only going to go up in value because blocks size of his so close to town are all gone. His father bought the place for 40K less than 30 years ago. He bought it about 20 years ago when his parents split for $340K. He's 44 years old and won't matter how much money he has, he'll still be as down to earth and hard working as he is now. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
HERE is a place for you Roger. This one is about 3 Min down the road from me near my pates place. I don't think you'll get it for 5 though, I'd be pretty sure this one would go for $8M+. There was a similar place in the next street about a year ago and that went for $10.2 and was only a small block of about 4000Sqm. We would be Neighbours almost though! I could tell the agents that and no doubt they would drop the price for you because of that major drawback! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I suppose anyone that has eight million cash can afford the energy costs to heat and cool a place like that. Council valuation of my place is 1.7 which is more than x100 what I paid for it in the mid 70's. If it completely burned down, I could easily get more than that for the bare block. I get pestered all the time by real estate agents and private buyers. Its the highest block in the street and a second story would have an excellent view of Port Philip Bay and the city lights at night. And its less than half a Km from a good sandy beach. I have a good mate that moved from the suburbs way out into the bush. Everything is literally miles away and expensive. He has water and phone and single phase power limited to 20 amps max. I certainly don't envy his problems. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
And wouldn't it cost something! Sub zero in winter, 40 regularly in summer and no attention paid to any sort of efficiency. The evaporation of that pool in summer would easy be 1000L every few days or less in summer. I had a large pool at the other place ( nothing like that one) and I know how much water that thing could loose. Out here with the heat and the wind, would be like pulling a plug out the bottom. Amazes me that the more expensive and opulent these places, the less well designed they are. That place does not even have any solar to offset what would have to be huge energy consumption. The fire place looks entirely decorative and I'll bet 70% of the heat it generates goes up the Chimney. Place like that they could have put in a beautiful Russian type stove that looked great and was very functional and efficient.... But it's all about appearance not common sense. The pool is heated and I'll bet that's LPG because it would take a serious heat pump to make a difference. Even with LPG ( no town gas round here and certainly not out there) the amount that would be gone though would be frightening. If that's the council/ land valuation it's worth heaps more! For sure! I used to get the same with people wanting to buy. Generally though they wanted to offer me much less than it was worth and would insult my intelligence with BS about why it was only worth whatever stupidity they were offering. The agents always had people on their books ready to buy right now. Then they would tell you how they would need to do an advertising campaign and I'd need to sign up with them for 3 Months. I'd say if you already have someone, bring them round and I'll sign up when they say they want to buy. They would stammer some more BS which I'd call them out on the stupidity of their Logic and take great pleasure in making them look like fools. Do not try to sell a salesman, especially one clearly more accomplished and knows the game better than they obviously did. Was a toss up between whom was more annoying, the developers or the agents? I remember a bunch of developer clowns coming at 10 Pm one night. I was not amused and when telling them the price I wanted, the head fool said " You have to consider our position". I laughed in the guys face and said No I don't, this is my home, where my family and I live, I couldn't give a stuff about your position to make money, that's your concern and mine is to get the best price I can so I can provide the best lifestyle for my family. I could not give a rats arse about your problems". I told them to Pizz off and if they wanted to talk to me again, to conduct themselves like professionals and like Gentleman and come at a reasonable hour unless they wanted me coming to their homes, and I WOULD find them, and bash on their doors at 3 am or start calling them at a similar hour. Parasites! I like sitting up on the roof here and enjoying the view. I'd be putting a tower up to sit and look at that! :0) My mate bought a place 6 Years ago on the Gold Coast. Rang and told me where to find the listing on the web. Said he paid a bit much for it but wasn't planning on moving for a while. Waterfront and he paid $800K . I was looking at the pics and when he told me the price I burst out laughing. He said I didn't pay that much too much for it, will be worth it when I reno it a bit. I said you idiot, I'm not laughing you paid too much, I'm laughing how cheap you got it. He questioned that as if I was covering up. I said you tell me anywhere in Sydney, Wollongong, central coast or Mid north coast ( where he had moved from) you would buy ANY waterfront for under $2m. He saw my Point. Wasn't a bad place, 10 Min from surfers, nice views and just far enough away from a Big shopping village. He did minor Renos on it, painting, clearing over grown gardens and we put in a new pool filtration system that kept it clean and he sold that after breaking up with his lunatic GF last year for $1.4. I might go a little further out, 10 Min from town but I don't want to go to the sticks. It's all larger acreages and Rural 2 streets behind us. I noticed they knocked over an old crappy '70s brick place that is about a 5 acre lot on the road into town. I wouldn't like that place, too many hills and too many trees down the back. They will probably put another inefficient designer mansion on it but. My mate 20 min behind me has really good power now and Phone but that's it. He had to put in a LOT of water tanks which are connected to the huge sshed he put in which is about 4x the area of the house. He ran out of water a few times when he first moved in there with the Drought but the downpours we had last year and this pretty much keep him going with all the storage now. I think he has around half million litres. We actually find a lot of things are cheaper here. My wife still works in the main area city where we came from so could shop there or here but says generally things are cheaper here which is a bit off given the different demographics of the area. Things are very different here, lot of people with a lot of money round here as against a lot of unit dwellers in the other place. There was an independent Petrol station in town. Last year they came along and stuck a BP right next to it. Never seen that before and was amazed they allowed it. Fuel was always cheap at the independent but now it's always the cheapest for many miles around and usually the lowest price anywhere. It's funny and satisfying to see the cars often still lined up outside the independent and maybe 2-3 at the BP at the same price or 1C above. There is a caltex Right at the other end of town and they are always Priced to kill. I don't know how they survive but there are always some cars in there. I used to do a medical Courier run out here many years ago and would sometimes fill up there because The company had a fuel card. I suspect that may have something to do with it. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
There is a pokey little old fashioned pizza shop about a mile away, its been there as long as I can remember, run by a nice Italian family, probably four generations in that shop now. Good pizza as well. Some franchise opened a pizza shop right next door. All stainless steel, modern furniture, bright lighting, spotlessly clean, attractive young ladies at the counter, you know the kind of thing... It took about a year, but the old shop is still there, the new one went broke. Almost all the clientele were locals, and they did not like what they were seeing one bit. Similar thing happening right now to the local greasy fish and chip and hamburger shop. A hamburger with the lot there is a real feast in the Aussie tradition. About four doors down an American franchise hamburger joint opened up. The hamburgers are half the size and cost twice to three times as much. The old place is still always busy, the new place as quiet as a tomb. Be interesting to see how that goes. Cheers, Tony. |
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