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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : 2 new Picos announced!
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| zeitfest Guru  Joined: 31/07/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 482 |
No doubt the ADC will be tested thoroughly  so the reality will be interesting to watch .. (getting cynical  ) |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
Well, they *say* it's fixed. :) Interestingly, on the bigger version of the chip you can have up to 8 ADC channels. The Datasheet has been upgraded from 647 to 1347 pages. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| al18 Senior Member  Joined: 06/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 205 |
Interesting the RP2350 has a new peripheral called HSTX, that can drive DVI without using PIO and without needing to overclock the ARM33 cores. HSTX is discussed in Adafruit’s video https://www.youtube.com/live/n5j3Y2Naao0?si=ROPbVDTQF1BQucQE Yesterday, Adafruit’s CircuitPython developer Scott posted a very long video discussing HSTX and showing a demo with CircuitPython displaying still pictures on DVI at 320x240, 16 bit color, 640x480 at 8 bit color, 4 bit color, 2 bit color and 1 bit monochrome. |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 857 |
I feel bad for those who are oblivious to this wonderful world of MCUs. |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2350 |
interesting indeed, HSTX could well be a game-changer as it looks like it is capable of providing at least 640x480 without need to overclock or tie up the second core. the second core would then be free to act as a graphics co-processor (including sprites, etc) while mmbasic runs on the first core. i wonder if the HSTX peripheral allows for horizontal and/or vertical pixel-doubling? if so one could output a 1080p signal (1920x1080) while only using a 960x540 frame buffer. 960x540/8 = 64800 bytes of frame buffer for monochrome 960x540, then add in whatever else is required to accommodate 8x8 tiles (960x540/256 = 8100 bytes) to achieve 16-colours of background and foreground for the tile colours. cheers, rob :-) Edited 2024-08-10 23:58 by robert.rozee |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
Lol! I like the Metro... Arduino on mega-steroids. :D Yep, HSTX is intriguing. A bit like like the fast port on the Armmite F4. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| al18 Senior Member Joined: 06/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 205 |
I watched the CircuitPython developer demo - the resolutions mentioned above are maximums due to the memory limitation on the RP2350. Pixel doubling is supported - the 320 x 240, 16 bit mode is doubled to 640 x 480. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
It's all lovely new toys at the moment. I'm not certain that all the presenters are fully clued up. I noticed that Lady Ada said that both cores have to be the same. That's not what the Datasheet says in section 3.9.2. I get the feeling that it's not really recommended though. lol Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4223 |
I will remain loyal to 2040. I do not see a CMM1.7 on the roadmap. When you sacrifice all RAM to video, and all potential speed gain to copying more memory, better make a larger step. When you need more: H7 or CMM2. Chips are available, and JLC boards not expensive. Volhout Edited 2024-08-11 03:03 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
Oh, go on... I bet you'd love to play with the enhanced PIO modules, especially when you have an extra one as well. :) TBH I'd not be bothered about increasing the video capabilities at all. The extra RAM can be used for other things. The Pico 2 doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the new chip anyway - it hasn't enough pins. It is a drop-in replacement though, so I could see it being useful in that respect. It remains to be seen whether it can generate VGA anyway. Apparently it's been run successfully at 300MHz using the Arm cores. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 857 |
Reminder: We're talking Matherp, guys  MMBasic achievements thus far? Mind blowing. Love the H7 but the PIO brings all kinds of possibilities to a Basic interpreter. These products are making me look like the wizard that I definitely ain't |
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karlelch Senior Member Joined: 30/10/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 172 |
Hi Mick, I could not left this uncommented (I tried, though ).I am using/teaching Python in my work and have used a lot of MicroPython/CircuitPython for projects. I would say that Python is a similar high level language as Basic. It is a carefully designed language and in a way, more logical (to me) as any Basic dialect. But that's a matter of taste and what one grew up with (I "started" my computer experience with TI Extended Basic ). Python tends to be further away from the hardware, because hardware access often requires compatibility layers, e.g., to offer the same interface on different controllers - and there is the garbage collector that - in my experience - makes critically timed programs difficult. This is one reason why I switched to MMBasic for some of my projects. It is timing-wise so much more predictable.Well, sometimes. But as discussed in the forum, MMBasic can also fail quite spectacularly. But for MMBasic, the loop to THE developer (  ) is much closer and the community is much smaller. Issues in (Micro)Python are also addressed quite quickly, in my experience.I agree, one can get started off quite quickly, at the same time, the language offer a lot of modern features for software design that one can discover later (or not) and where the learning curve becomes steep. And, whether on likes it or not, it is the language of machine learning and AI. Yes, the language is small; most functionality is packed into standard or external packages/libraries. There is a package for anything - the problem is rather to find one among many that fits your needs best *and* is still being actively supported. There are exactly two Python flavours, and the "old" flavour (Python2) should not be touched anymore. Every Python implementation for microcontrollers I know is based on Python3. Sure, Python3 is continued to be developed, but there are rarely "breaking" changes. Also, I am aware that there is still Python2 code out there but if you start, you don't need to worry about that and go with Python3. There are flavours of Python for microcontrollers (see below) but they mainly differ in their I/O libraries - they use the same Python3 core. Yes, for microcontrollers, I would also recommend Adafruit's CircuitPython, especially if you are a beginner and using Adafruit's gadgets (not only the ones, they develop but also ones they sell from other companies) - everything is almost immediately supported by some library. The "original", MicroPython, is more "cutting edge", that is, new Python developments are more quickly integrated (not always improving stability), but it supports almost any controller you can think of. And then there is, e.g., the MicroPython distribution from Pimoroni, which adds libraries to support their boards and gadgets. What I like about Pimoroni's distribution is that they typically wait until the bugs in a new MicroPython release are exterminated before they integrate it in their code. Very clever. All this said, I love MMBasic for the Pico and hope for a Pico2 version  ... but for some applications, (Micro/Circuit)Python is just the easier approach. Rant over. Best Thomas |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
Thanks. :) I still feel that Python is lower level while I'm using it (which is pretty rarely). That's probably because you have to include libraries for so many things. It just "feels" like that. :) I'm not certain why it was Raspberry Pi's language of choice. I'm unlike you, I find it pretty illogical (as I do C and C++) and I'm not sure I'd like to be learning to program using it. Mind you, I've not lived with it for any length of time. I suppose it could grow on me eventually. As long as I don't have to use C or C++ I'll be happy. The Zeap Z80 assembler was easier... :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
My position also. The new chips seem very interesting, and very much a CANDIDATE for an MMBASIC port, but lets not forget who does 99% of the porting these daze..... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Watching with interest, though! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
This is the point though. If you are an industrial user of the RP2040 it *is* broke and needs fixing. The ADC is broke, but that's a minor problem when someone can come along, read your code and copy it, pinching your profits overnight. For the hobbyist it doesn't matter, but it's selling in quantity to industrial users that will both keep the cost down and pay for more R&D for future silicon. The RP2040 is also at the bottom of the list for safety. The M33 core is *much* better for both security and safety. The Pico is great for the hobbyist, I've no problem with that and I'll stick with it too - at least for the moment. The Pico 2 is slightly more expensive at the moment, but it might end up costing about the same after a while. There's no financial advantage to the RP2040 then (unless you are using large quantities where a fraction of a penny may be important). Whether the new chip will run MMBasic isn't relevant for its survival. It may eventually replace the RP2040 if industrial demand is high enough as there won't be much point in making it if only the hobbyists are buying it. That market simply isn't big enough. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| karlelch Senior Member Joined: 30/10/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 172 |
Welcome They choose it because it the THE programming language students get taught today. Certainly at (German) universities and at least in non-IT fields, such as neuroscience (my field). In my community, many researchers are switching from the proprietary Matlab (expensive) to open source software, such as Python and R. For computing in research and data science, Python is currently quite dominant. Again, I think a lot depends on what you grew up with. I need to have something like a command line and and editor; I cannot deal with graphical programming languages, such as Scratch or LabVIEW - they hurt my brain |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
I once attempted Visual Basic. Never again. What a horrible experience. lol I used to use AutoCAD and you could write scripts in AutoLisp. That was interesting. A textual language that defines or edits stuff on the screen. You could write your own controls in it. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 509 |
I'm a pure C person at heart, before that Fortran, (full flight aircraft simulation) but I Love the immediacy of MMBasic & use it almost exclusively now for hardware projects. I also exclusively use Vi for editing, even MMBasic, if I'm not editing on the Pico, I believe someone famous once said the commands for editing in Vi resemble line noise ;-) but with only a few of them, you can do quit a lot. Personally, I'm still holding out for what I said back in May We may never know. The HSTX, was a surprise, if you need a display looks great, up to 640x480, at various colour depths, with no CPU involvement, other than putting stuff in the display buffer, obviously there will be a memory bus hit as the HSTX needs to access the ram, but hopefully minimal, not that MMBasic needed the second processor back, but a nice new feature anyway. Regards Kevin. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6781 |
I just came across an article about the development of the TS9900 CPU and found this quote. It instantly made me think about the RP2040 and how true it still is. Link to article Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2120 |
I bought a esp32 cos I saw fabgl and it's a cheap board with vga and 2 ps2 but never got it used but seems python may work with fabgl. |
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