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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : PicoMiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS release candidates
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| Volhout Guru  Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4222 |
Sounds like you feel pushed to do so ... don't. The game is only for people that want to have fun ! Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 509 |
For now I have taken the Wii connector apart & wired mine directly to an edge connector, however I have just ordered a Wii extension cable £3, which I will wire to the edge connector instead and put the original Wii connector back on the Wii controller. Wii extension Regards Kevin. |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
As I haven't got a WII I don't really have any reason to leave that plug on other than it fits my CMM2. :) I like the idea of modifying an extender cable. I might do that.... Ordered, thanks. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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IanRogers Senior Member  Joined: 09/12/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 151 |
LOL.. No I like it.. Ive been playing the dos version but my VGA model still has no sound or human interface.. I've been far too busy I might just buy a game mite PCB and all the components, the one from Peter looks good with the two speakers. I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
Tom's is a nice little kit (and guaranteed to be 100% compatible!). I can recommend it. Either way, factor in getting a display and battery as well. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
Thanks for the vote of confidence Mick. @IanRogers, TBH neither the Game*Mite nor Peter's pimped-out clone make the best PETSCII Robots machines. Whilst you can play with 8 (directions + 4) buttons it's sub-optimal; you really need at least 10 and preferably 12 buttons. However, that said, it is still playable; though the version I play has a different control arrangement to that currently published by @Volhout. Note I don't propose to create a Game*Mite with more buttons, I judge PETSCII Robots to be an outlier and there is a limit to what button inputs you can usefully provide without a moulded case. Comparison wise: The "official" Game*Mite has perfectly adequate display and sound, a useful "user port" and @BigMik and I went through a lot of effort and PCB iterations to make it as comfortable to play on without requiring a moulded case as we could. A through-hole kit (minus display, battery and Pico) is available for ~£20 + P&P from me or @BigMik. Peter's device (PicoMite Game++) should be 100% compatible and offers better/stereo sound (at least theoretically I haven't actually started one up), the option of using the faster Parallel rather than SPI ILI9341 display and 16 MB flash onboard rather than the standard Pico's 2 MB. It doesn't have the "user port" and having held one I don't personally think the ergonomics are as good as the Game*Mite, but YMMV. The big downside is that Peter won't actually sell you one  , you will need to order them from JLCPCB (or similar) and unless you fancy SMD soldering including the RP2040 (the chip itself) you will need to pay for them to build the device and pay for a minimum order of two; I think I heard the figure of either £60 or £100 bandied about (for 2 + 3 unpopulated PCBs), but that may be incorrect.Looking beyond the Game*Mite I don't think there currently is an ideal "shrink wrapped" / no hacking required PicoMite VGA platform for playing PETSCII Robots with a controller. Looking at the controller first and ignoring building your own the choice is basically a proper (old stock) SNES gamepad or a Wii Classic gamepad and in both cases you have to deal with / hack off their unhelpful connectors (7-pin custom job vs. Nunchuck). The 8-button NES gamepad has the same limitations as the Game*Mite. When it comes to a suitable PCB my favourite is @Mixtel90's PicoGAME v2 which has two DB9 controller ports suitable for NES clone gamepads (clones use DB9s, the real ones had a custom 7-pin connector, different to the SNES one) or Atari Joysticks. A SNES gamepad can be rewired to a DB9 and used with one of these and I wonder if at least one of the DB9 ports might expose the correct I2C/GPIO to allow a rewired Wii Classic gamepad to be attached (@Mixtel90 ?) If you want (and @Mixtel90 gives me permission) I can probably rustle up a kit for one of these and a working NES gamepad for ~£25 + P&P. FWIW I think, were I not now wedded to supporting the Game*Mite, my ideal PicoMiteVGA game platform would probably have two proper Nunchuck ports (not edge connectors like the CMM2) and a DB9 dual configured for NES or Atari joystick. Of course the real ideal device for playing an MMBasic version of PETSCII Robots is the CMM2 ... or at least it will be when someone ports it to work on the CMM2. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2023-12-15 23:26 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
I2C on the PicoGAME V2 Set GP26 and GP27 pullup resistors on using LB1 Using Port A pin 6 (GP6) is I2C2 SDA and pin 9 (GP27) is I2C2 SCL 3.3V is on pin 7 and GND is on pin 8. Ignore everything else unless you want to connect a NES/SNESS *to the same connector at the same time!* :) You can use OPTION SYSTEM I2C GP26, GP27 now. The RTC can also be used as it's on the same I2C. You can also connect a I2C controller to a Game*Mite using pins 7 & 8 of the expansion connector J1 but you will need to patch in some 4K7 pullup resistors as the on-chip pullups are too weak. If you made an adapter (or changed the plug) you could also use a WII Classic like this. That only requires that you are using the System I2C, it doesn't care which or which pins are used. *If* I can get the WII connectors to fit properly PicoGAME 4 is destined to have one together with a choice of a DB9 wired similarly to Port A on the V2 or two RJ14 I2C sockets (on the other I2C port so they can run at a different speed if necessary). However, if you look at a photo of a WII controller the socket seems to be quite critical as to the thickness of the plastic case and I'm not certain that it's possible to use them in the Hammond case. I'll know when they turn up. I don't really want to use the WII connector (they are proprietary and are a pig to get hold of), I'm only doing it because it saves making up an adapter to RJ14 or changing the plug. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4222 |
@Mick, What is wrong with the CMM2 board edge solution? You will have to bevel the edges a bit, but as song as you have tin or gold plating it should be usable. Right ? I currently don't have a CMM2 nor a WII classic, so not sure how the fit is, but cheaper..you can't get... Just make sure the board thickness is correct. I am even playing with the thought of making this minor mod to the board for David. Only use the micro SD card reader, and make room for this WII classic connection. Volhout Edited 2023-12-15 18:25 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
I've never liked card edge connectors onto non-gold plated fingers, Not since I had to use 80-pin ones on some of the Nascom expansion boards. Of course, you pay through the nose for those gold plated fingers! The CMM2 connection is clever. The tongue for the connector extends beyond the edge of the rest of the board slightly to get the distance through the front panel correct. The sides of the slot have little notches for the plug locking pins to locate in. Also, the pcb has to be mounted on spacers to get vertical pace for the WII plug below it. I just don't like the arrangement. There is quite a lot of PCB engineering in it (probably costing more than an official connector) and it still feels like a kludge to me. OK for occasional use, but not on a machine where the user likes to play games using it. I'd be far happier simply taking the (too short) lead off the controller and fitting a longer one terminating in a RJ14, which is cheaper, easier to get and easier to mount. £1.99 gets you a 2m RJ14-RJ14 lead which can be cut in half so you can do two controllers with it. The WII leads are too short anyway (<1m and you lose 100mm or so on the Classic as the lead comes out of the controller towards you) as they are intended to be plugged into the WII controller which has a bluetooth connection to the main box. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4222 |
Thanks, As I said, I don't have both pieces at hand,so the information you give is usefull. Especially the cable length and cable exit at the controller are important. So the "better" solution then is SNES with the SNES connector (the big one). My personal opinion: when the (controller) cables are used "heavy duty", make sure there is no interconnect in the middle. And since controller cables are pulled, and stepped on, I need to focus on a controller that has robust cable. Wii is out. Especially since I am not confident with I2C over 2-3 meters cable length. I'll see if I can find theses huge SNES controller connectors for board assembly, and some genuine controllers. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 9105 |
I2C is fine over 2-3m. It is only running at 100KHz so you can use 2k7 pullups or even less. The CMM2 board layout is no issue for JLC and costs nothing extra once you are into the non 100x100 category and that cost difference for those is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things (c GBP1.20 each). The lead length issue is easily solved with an extension lead for about GBP3.50. Anything requiring multiple pins is IMHO a mistake and won't/can't be sensibly supported in firmware whereas the Wii Classic can support any game with a single simple interface. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
A "proper 16-bit" SNES controller is pretty much ideal, but once again you are at the mercy of the connector. Official ones don't have a DB9 connector, they have their own 7-pin one which is carved from a solid block of uobtainium. Once you get past the original Atari joystick DB9 there are no standard joystick or controller connectors. Every manufacturer since then has produced their own connector or re-wired the DB9 incompatible ways. At least I've managed to find a company who has standardised on a sensible way to connect RJ14 for I2C (for which there is no standard connector anyway). I'm going to stick to that now. :) At 2-3m I2C might struggle unless you use 100kHz. Total cable capacitance has to be less than 400pF with active current source pullups. Keep to 200pF for 3mA resistor pullups. Allow for 50pF stray capacitance. Cable will generally be in the region of 20pf per 300mm (55pF for CAT5). That would give a maximum length of 2.25m. You can probably get 10m or so at 100kHz with resistors. If you use flat RJ14 and put the connections as 1:SDA, 2:3V3 3:GND, 4:SCL you keep the cable capacitance to a minimum. Never twist SCL and SDA, even in CAT5. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
AliExpress for all your unobtanium needs: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838396935.html Not that I'm advocating this, or any other option today. Best wishes, Tom Edited 2023-12-15 20:49 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| MarkF Regular Member  Joined: 01/08/2023 Location: AustraliaPosts: 47 |
Hi all. RC5/RC6 versions work well on the PicoGAME VGA with the SNES controller and keyboard. I have fun playing it. No bugs found, but I have some suggestions: 1) The rest of the game music plays at a good rate. But, the intro music seems to play too fast. I have set OPTION CPUSPEED 252000. 2) The intro music seems to repeat abruptly, i.e. the end of the music file doesn't 'gel' with the beginning (when the music repeats). Maybe the last 0.1 sec to 0.5 of the music file can be removed, so it repeats nicer. 3) When you use the medkit, the comment is "you gained 5 life". Shouldn't it be "you gained 5 health" ? Line 1641: writecomment("you gained "+Str$(a)+" life") 4) At the end of the first map "Research Lab" and you go into the teleporter, the game ends. Shouldn't it load the next map, and continue the game? P.S. All the robots seem to be working as they should. Edited 2023-12-18 17:14 by MarkF |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4222 |
Hi Mark, Thank you for playing. This report is very much appreciated. For the music I have to ask Martin if there is anything he can do about to optimize the loop artefacts. Item 4/ I'll have to check against the DOS version. I personally like the fact that you can "choose" from the wealth of 14 levels, and play them in any order you fancy. I will report back on these 4 remarks. Volhout Edited 2023-12-18 17:23 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Bleep Guru Joined: 09/01/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 509 |
Hi Peter, Is there any possibility of getting the Wii Classic controller working at 378MHz, I beleive you said there was a problem at this clock rate? presumably, getting the PIO slow enough for the 100KHz I2C, will a Wii Classic work at more the 100KHz? Currently I don't have to use any pull up resistors with my controller, but maybe I'm just lucky. :-) Regards, Kevin. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
I don't know if it's true, but I've seen it stated that the WII runs the controllers at 400kHz. Mind you, the leads are screened and less than 1m with only a single device per port. You *must* use pullups with I2C somewhere if you want any sort of reliability. It won't work without as all connections to the bus are open collector/drain. Some devices like RTC modules include them. You can't run VGA faster than 378MHz anyway and these controllers are probably going to be used with VGA. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135 |
Recent VGA firmware only allows 126 and 252MHz. Don't tell Peter, but you can trick into running at 378MHz by loading a .OPT file from a prior version that has been set to 378MHz. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4222 |
Hi Phil, Not that I am running 378MHz, not even considering, but how does that work with the .OPT file ? Do you use OPTION DISK SAVE fnam$ and OPTION DISK LOAD ? Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6778 |
You might get some that work faster, I suppose, but the PicoMite VGA was no doubt locked to a maximum of 252MHz for a good reason - like it worked. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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