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matherp
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Joined: 11/12/2012
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Posted: 11:49am 27 Jan 2019

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Quote Sadly not:

You are doing bit shifts on floating point numbers - yuk!!!

Turbo46

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Joined: 24/12/2017
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Posted: 12:00pm 27 Jan 2019

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But:

list
Option explicit
Dim integer a, n

a=57
Timer=0
For n=1 To 10000
a=a<<1
Next
Print Timer

a=57
Timer=0
For n=1 To 10000
a=a*2
Next
Print Timer
> run
521
531
>

'<<' is an integer function and when using integers it is a tiny bit faster. Plus the whole program runs a lot faster.

Bill

Keep safe. Live long and prosper.

CaptainBoing

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Posted: 05:37pm 27 Jan 2019

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@matherP - oops!

@Turbo46 - yay!

Turbo46

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Posted: 11:32pm 11 Mar 2023

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Geoff, Peter's implementation of INC for the CMM2 et al has been quite successful and is used quite often now. Please see Tom's (thwill) Laser Cycle as an example. It IS more compact and faster than the normal BASIC method of incrementing a variable.

Is it possible that you may look again at including it now in the Micrmites please?

Bill

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stanleyella

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Posted: 12:20am 12 Mar 2023

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gcbasic can use
a++ instead of a=a+1
a--- instead of a=a-1
but I don't do c

Turbo46

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Posted: 12:25am 12 Mar 2023

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INC by Peter is quite versatile the value that you 'INC' by can be any number, positive or negative and even an expression. I like it.

Bill

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stanleyella

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Posted: 02:25pm 12 Mar 2023

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SUB INC k, d
LOCAL delta
IF d = 0 THEN delta = 1 ELSE delta = d
k = k + delta
END SUB

delta=not d ... faster?
Edited 2023-03-13 00:27 by stanleyella

vegipete

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Posted: 03:46pm 12 Mar 2023

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k = k + d + (d = 0)

Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs.

Turbo46

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Posted: 09:24pm 12 Mar 2023

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Thank you Stan and Vegipete. I tried:

SUB INC k, d
k = k + d + (d = 0)
END SUB

Of course it worked just like the INC command does and would be useful if converting a program meant for another device to a Micromite. The point is though, it takes even longer to perform the operation than just doing it in line in the program:

a = a + whatever

As I understand it, the INC command performs the operation on the variable in situ rather than take a copy, manipulate it then then put it back. If that is wrong then I would be happy to be enlightened.

Because Geoff seemed to seriously consider implementing it for the Micromite (and hopefully DOS) and because Peter has done so I was hoping that he will reconsider adding it.

Bill

Keep safe. Live long and prosper.

thwill

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Posted: 10:36pm 12 Mar 2023

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Turbo46 said As I understand it, the INC command performs the operation on the variable in situ rather than take a copy, manipulate it then then put it back. If that is wrong then I would be happy to be enlightened.

This feels like one of those situations where some foolhardy soul gives an "informed" answer about an MMBasic internal only for Peter to point out how wrong they are ... I guess I will take one for the team

.

One significant reason is that to perform "INC x" the interpreter only looks up "x" once whereas for "x=x+1" it looks it up twice - variable lookup is an expensive operation. The former also only involves handling two tokens whereas the latter involves five.

Best wishes,

Tom
Edited 2023-03-13 08:39 by thwill

Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures

Turbo46

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Posted: 04:42am 13 Mar 2023

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Thanks Tom that makes sense.

Bill

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Martin H.

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Posted: 09:35am 13 Mar 2023

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stanleyella said SUB INC k, d
LOCAL delta
IF d = 0 THEN delta = 1 ELSE delta = d
k = k + delta
END SUB

delta=not d ... faster?

Why are you using a SUB with the same Name as a Command that allready exists?

'no comment

Turbo46

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Posted: 12:46am 14 Mar 2023

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The INC command exist for the Micromites or MMBasic for DOS. That is the point.

Bill

Keep safe. Live long and prosper.

thwill

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Posted: 09:51am 14 Mar 2023

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"The INC command [DOES NOT] exist for the Micromites or MMBasic for DOS. That is the point."

Best wishes,

Tom
Edited 2023-03-14 19:51 by thwill

Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures

Turbo46

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Posted: 11:07am 14 Mar 2023

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Oops. Thanks Tom.

Bill

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Martin H.

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Posted: 12:45pm 14 Mar 2023

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thwill said "The INC command [DOES NOT] exist for the Micromites or MMBasic for DOS. That is the point."

Best wishes,

Tom

Thanks Tom,
that's what confused me.

However, a call to a Function or Sub takes more time than the actual calculation.

Mart!n

'no comment

Turbo46

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Posted: 06:05am 19 Jan 2024

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Geoff,

I wonder if you would reconsider adding the INC command to MMBasic for the Micromites and MMBasic for DOS? You did seem sort of amenable to the idea when it was first discussed here. With with the success and wide acceptance of Peter's implementation of the command for the CMM2 et al I was hoping you might.

Unless I've done something stupid, a little test on my CMM2 shows that it is about twice as fast as the "a = a + 1" method.

' Test the difference the INC command makes
'
' Get the FOR NEXT loop time
b = timer
for i = 1 to 10000
next i
t = timer - b
print " Loop time: "; t
'
' INC time
a = 1
b = timer
for i = 1 to 10000
inc a
next i
c = timer - b - t
print " INC time: ";c
'
' a + 1 time
a = 1
b = timer
for i = 1 to 10000
a = a + 1
next i
c = timer - b - t
print " a + 1 time: ";c

> run
Loop time: 15.441
INC time: 14.179
a + 1 time: 29.455

>

Quote INC var [,increment]

The command does seem rock solid, fast and useful and as the code is available, I'm hoping you will think again. Please.

Bill

Keep safe. Live long and prosper.

stanleyella

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Posted: 08:00pm 19 Jan 2024

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look at vegipete's picorocks for non standard basic. proper?
https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=16&TID=16568&LastEntry=Y#215827

PhenixRising
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Posted: 08:49pm 19 Jan 2024

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stanleyella said look at vegipete's picorocks for non standard basic. proper?
https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=16&TID=16568&LastEntry=Y#215827

Definitely a thing of beauty. No interest in games but I get a kick out of well-structured source code...yeah I'm weird

Geoffg

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Posted: 09:53pm 19 Jan 2024

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Turbo46 said Geoff, I wonder if you would reconsider adding the INC command to MMBasic for the Micromites and MMBasic for DOS?

This really worries me. For a start I'm very much one for standards and INC is very much non standard. As far as I know, no other BASIC uses it so MMBasic will be (to a small amount) non standard.

The other thing is that I have decided to leave the Micromite version of MMBasic as it is unless a major bug is found or a major feature is needed. This is because the firmware is quite stable and when I fiddle with it I tend to add bugs. Also, Peter has used it as the basis for all his implementations and a major change would cause him a load of work, or worse, a fork.

However INC is relatively harmless so I will add it to the Micromite todo list, but I'm not sure when the next release would be.

Geoff

Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net

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