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Forum Index : Solar : Deciding if I should build this solar heater
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| Davo99 Guru  Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
There is good money in that. My mate used to keep all the scrap bits the company he used to work for were stupid enough to PAY someone to take away. The blokes used to get turns at Dissecting it all. Went towards their Christmas party. They were full on at top places with a Limo to pick them up and take them home and the leftover money was another Bonus they got. That company mainly did Domestic and office work so they got a LOT of scrap. Now he has his own company after wiping the other one he left out, it all goes down the back and when it's quiet the boys go through it and sort the Ally from the copper, steel etc. It's a Treasure Trove of Caps, Contactors, fans and short lengths of pipe. The paint on the gutters on my house has taken a beating in a couple of places but only on the top where you can't see it. :0) A split pool Noodle thing or some hose over the gutter edge may protect it. I am SO glad I don't have tiles. Here I take out a roof screw, put it through the bracket I want to mount, Put a dob of silicone under it as the weather seals are getting old and hard, screw it all back down and that's it. No Grinding tiles and breaking them the Minute my fat arse steps on them. I got a pair of Dunlop Volley Tennis shoes which stick to the steeply pitched tin amazingly well, even when its wet with the dew. Tin sure is easier for anything solar you want to put up there. Oh mate, You haven't lived till your tractor has a Front end Loader!! I feel underpriveledged because mine doesn't' have a 4 way Bucket like my fathers have. They are very Versatile although I'm still trying to show him what can be done with them. I'm going to get a shim to put in the Hydraulics and bump the pressure on mine so I get a bit more lift out of it. Just hasn't got enough for some things I want to do. Been reading up on it and there are people going way beyond what I want with no problem so I'll be over factory rating but still relatively conservative. You might save enough on heating costs to be able to get a loader put on your Tractor.... or at least justify it to the Mrs. For some reason I always seem to be lifting or carrying something around. Thats what I bought the engine crane for, never had a car engine on it yet, quite a few little ( and not so) Diesels though. I put some large castor wheels on it because the little 2" steel ones were no good on the asphalt driveway that has a lot of stones on it. The 8" wheels even roll on the grass OK. I also put one of those electric winches on the end as pumping the thing up and down all the time was a mugs game so now I can connect up what ever I want and lift it with the press of a Button. That said, haven't used the thing since I got the tractor so I might move it on and make some more shed space. Yes, I live to upset the safety sissy's but I seem to have completely offended them because I don't hear much from them at all these days. Maybe they have moved on to panicking and fear mongering about catching the sniffles or something? How far away do you think you are from getting your heater setup finished? Couple of Months? I SO want to see what this thing will do in summer! You will be able to heat your hot water by just blowing the heated air on the outside of the tank! :0) |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
I don't know how much he has dismantled, but the heaps of complete ones he has there are impressive. He must collect a lot of cable because he spends a lot of time feeding it through an insulation stripper. Does a great job. Nice to see wheely bins full of nice clean copper wire. I'm hanging out to go and spend a few hours looking through it all and to see if I can find a suitable fan. I hadn't thought of a pool noodle ... I diverted some from the bin a while ago and stuck them in the shed for just such an occasion. I might even throw over a length of carpet as well I'm not all that keen either, but I don't have a choice, so I'll make it work. The used solar panels I bought came off a tiled roof so I have a heap of brackets. The only thing I haven't worked out yet are what I'll use to feed the duct through the roof. We have half a pallet of spare tiles so if I break a few I'm not too concerned. Makes sense to me too .. thats why when I finally put panels up they'll go on the shed ... even though it's a heap higher than the house roof. Haha, yeah that is something on my bucket list, but I may need to trade up to it. I have an early 50's David Brown 30C which I picked up for $700 not running ... and was very pleased with myself when I got it going. Came with a grader blade, a small bucket for the 3 point linkage, plus the jib ... and a friend recently dropped off a 6ft rotary hoe for me to borrow. That works a treat in the glass houses ... really churns up the soil and mixes in anything you need to add ... and I've done a fair bit of the paddock too. Oh, and I bought a decent slasher as well, so I can keep the weeds down. A regular hobby farmer now.  My 3 point linkage is supposed to be good for 650kg on the end of the arms ... though they are pretty short. It didn't have any trouble lifting a V6 Nissan motor on the end of the jib, onto an engine stand ... but it wouldn't lift the slasher or the rotary hoe off the trailer when I needed it too. Got them off safely though. I'm not sure it would handle it too well ... I'd need some new front tyres first ... these look like they may be the originals. But I think if I found as good a bargain as this one, there's be no arguments. I've been thrilled at how supportive she has been with the whole deal ... plus we need to slash the block regularly ... and it was just too much for the ride-on. Haha, probably right. I should be finished in a month if I stayed on track ... as long as I can stay focused ... but it's likely to be a couple months. Having said that, the ally tubing turned up today, so one more thing ticked ... and the sheet metal guy should be getting close with the floor and covers for my ducts. Haha, so do I, though I wanna see some results in the cold weather first. I did get a bit of a taste of what it can do one day when I had it off to make some changes ... and when I turned it back on and leaned over to check the datalogger, I got a faceful of 90 degree heat. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Looks like it was a bad idea to change the recording interval from 1 minute to 10 seconds ... so I've changed it back for tomorrow. The logger in the sun chops and changes so much that there's an awful lot of noise and it's hard to make any sense of the rest. Otherwise it wasn't a bad day.  This was the idea I suggested the other day to get the air to swirl around as it exits the tube. Probably not worthwhile but at least not too hard to do.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I think you should be able to buy a kit to feed a flue from a wood heater through a tiled roof. The outer most skin of that may be large enough. Another random thought, I have seen small round skylights advertised that pipe sunlight down through a reflective tube. Some of the hardware for that might work.  Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Dektite |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
This mob have PVC storm water pipe and fittings up to 300mm diameter: https://www.pipeonline.com.au/listProduct/STORMWATER+FITTINGS/STORMWATER+BENDS Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Their Fittings seem very well priced. I spose the tell tale would be in the shipping cost. I bought some PVC pipe recently. First went to bunnys whom were out of it so then called into Reece Plumbing. They were less than HALF the Bunnings price. Ironically, I see this mob are far more exy than bunnys! I'm thinking there might be some freight cost built into that or something because while their fittings seem very well priced, Plain pipe is over the top. Might be wise to cost an order out with these people and one with Reece. They have branches everywhere so Might be cheaper than paying extra for freight. I was pricing some stuff on fleabay last night as I need to Build Dad a Fire trailer. Ordered one months ago and basically the people we ordered it from are con merchants. No worries, friends whom don't much around have taken care of the refund so this time I'll do it myself as I was going to originally and be done with it. Looking at some other setups online, they are put together very poorly with undersized Pipe and Features. Some don't have the facility to pump direct from a water source and only have small pipe for refilling the tank. It's only valves and a bit of Hose or Pipe that needs to be added. Think I'll run a 1" and a 3/4" Fire hose and also look at putting a Monitor setup which is like a Fixed mounted Gun That could be aimed and set and run while the trailer is being towed along. The complication and significant expense will be in the Fittings and hoses I think. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
As far as getting past the roof tiles goes, you might be able to do something really clever with some sheet lead, and a really big soldering iron... Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks for the help and suggestions guys. I followed the Deks link and eventually discovered that Bunnings sell a couple of them. I'd been using the wrong description. Their 150-300mm one is $41.60. While I was out I called in and looked at them ... and they'd certainly do the job ... though the base is not very much wider than the rubber ... they're more suited to a tin roof where you could glue and screw them in place. Reece have one for tiled roofs but is $200 in the 300mm size ... and that one does have a quite large sheet of lead or a substitute ... to give a wide protection area. Bunnings also have sheet lead up to 600x600mm $56 ... so if I fitted their rubber sleeve to the lead it'd cost ~$100 Another thought I had was to get out a handful of spare tiles and see if it was possible to panelbeat a sheet of galvanised tin to a useful shape ... then fit one of the Deks ones from Bunnings onto it. I'll need two anyway, for the inlet and outlet. And the thought just came that if I could shape some tin well enough, I could fit a ready made galvanised duct joiner through it and solder it all up. They're only $10 or 15. Then carry on with flexible duct inside and an elbow above. I'm not sure what to think about lead though as we drink the rainwater off the roof ... and of course some say that is deadly ... and others say don't be stupid, it's perfectly ok. Not so concerned about myself with only a few years to go ... but the kids are a different matter. Just as an aside, the sheet metal guy rang earlier and said the duct bases and covers are ready, so I'll pick them up tomorrow. I mentioned that he was really interested in what I was doing ... and in the process he offered me an old faulty BP Solar inverter that he couldn't bear to throw away. He was frustrated that it couldn't be fixed so was keen to hear that I had an interest in inverters and very happy to hand it over. Turns out it's an SMA SMC6000A Sunny Mini Central ... 6000 watts, and weighs a heap ... 63kG. The IGBT has blown ... split its sides ... and a couple surface mount components on the board above. It's a Semikron SKiip 27GH066V1 H-Bridge. I can see the circuit boards and fans and stuff ... but from the weight (and age) I reckon there must be a toroid in the rear section there somewhere. It's just way too heavy to be from the case and heatsink alone. Needs more investigation. Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
An alternative to sheet lead or galvanised steel might be sheet copper? Very easy to solder, and it will last forever. That Sunny Mini inverter sounds like a real win. If nothing else, the toroid and heatsink must certainly be reusable. Was out shopping today, and cruised past the local pawn shop. Funnily enough they had one of those orange castle blowers for sale. The rotor looks like about nine inches diameter and about an inch wide by eye, pretty much what I expected, and appears to be about the same dimensions as a VW rotor. So I think you might definitely be in the ball park regarding pressure and flow. Its probably a bit big for your initial prototype system, but should be much better suited to the larger system with more tubes. Edited 2021-08-05 17:05 by Warpspeed Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
They do a variety of flashings Roger. This one is Aluminium There are also others made for Tile roofs, have a poke around their site. Don't think the consumption of lead is in much dispute, It causes all sorts of neurological Problems. The question as always is the dosage rate. I remember many years ago There was a big OH&S situation in the aircraft factory where my father in law worked. They were concerned about the ingestion of aluminium having similar properties to the health dangers of lead. Upshot was they found ally did not accumulate in the body the same as lead and was easily passed and also the concentrations to be dangerous were that you'd have to be taking it in a powered form of a spoonful a day. Lead builds up and is much harder to shift. That said, I believe it's all about dosage. My worthless uneducated thoughts would be to opine that there may be a 300x300 section of lead exposed to the rain water and as a percentage of the total roof area, it would probably be virtually undetectable in the water. You may also be able to seal it all with some sort of lacquer, roof paint, resin or wipe the whole area with a layer or 3 of silicone to eliminate the contact with the lead itself. Other thought comes to mind is just section off that bit of guttering and dump that water and use the rest from the other roof sections. I would also suspect that fallout from the atmosphere would probably account for a greater overall amount of contamination being present in your water along with all sorts of other nasties.... all most probably at concentration levels too low to be of concern or at least your ability to do anything about. I am pretty sure there is a very soft ally flashing available now that if memory serves is also a tar coated material. May be easier also to get a thin ally sheet and heat and beat it into shape. There also isn't a Lot 2 to 17 tubes of silicone wont fix. Maybe you could just grind out a couple of tiles and pump the goo in there to waterproof it? |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Sounds good ... though not sure how accessible it would be. Where do you buy stuff like that? I'm assuming it is encapsulated like their smaller ones ... but hopefully it'll have useful voltages to do something with. That's encouraging, thanks. I've tried to find a price on one of those backward curved blade fans I pointed to the other day ... but haven't been able to find any details of ones for sale ... other than some really small ones ... and they were over $200 freight to Aust. Then I caught a glimpse of one on a retargeting advert at well over a thousand dollars ... but I had clicked off the page before it registered that I needed to pay attention and when I clicked back it was gone. I must be losing my touch ... I spent ages looking around for tiled roof ones but couldn't find any. Thanks for pointing it out. Yes, and the accumulative affect as well as you point out. My sister and her husband moved out of Pt Pirie 30 odd years ago because of the lead scare and the fact that their kids measured high rates. That was due to the smelters up there and the fallout. While I was searching I came across one of Dek's videos on youtube and they used a sand hammer to beat it into shape. Had never seen a sand hammer before. I'm sure I'll be able to use at least one of the methods you've suggested, Thanks. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
More results from today. Certainly better with one minute recording intervals rather than 10 second.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
One place I think you would get it is a Good art supply store. They Beat it and make pictures or sculptures out of. This place may also Be Close enough to you: Copper Supplies Probably a better idea and more workable than Ally. No Corrosion problems and as Tony says, it certainly lasts forever. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
At least in Sydney and Melbourne there is a very old Australian company called "George White" that specialises in all things copper. They stock copper bars, tubes, wire, and sheet from very thin shim stock to massive copper plate. Their hard drawn copper busbars are especially useful, and are available in all sizes cut to length. They may possibly have a distributor in Adelaide. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Here you go: https://georgewhite.com.au/ They are quite close to me here, if you can get a competitive quote, I could always roll it up and mail it too you (as long as its not too thick to roll up). As it comes, it will be pretty hard and springy, but some gentle heat from a propane torch will anneal it. It will then be a bit buckled and wrinkly looking, but it will then beat very easily into shape around your tiles. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Some great suggestions and links there guys, thank you. I need to make some phone calls. One of our girls lives not far from Austral's in Adelaide, so could get her to pick it up, and she has a ute so should be easy enough. What thickness should I aim for? .9 - 1.0 - 1.2mm? The other thing I thought of was checking out the scrap yard to see if they had any old copper hotwater tanks. Cut a section out the side and beat it into shape ... Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Just looked up some details on flashing, and all those gauges are used depending on the application. https://professionals.lysaght.com/sites/default/files/LysaghtArchitecturalDetailingManualRoofWallFlashingJune2016.pdf I think 1.2 is going to be far too thick to work with, and either 0.9 or 1.0 might be more practical, depending on overall area covered, and how curvy your tiles are. Its not structural, and it only has to keep the rain out, but it also must be rigid enough not to flap around and peel back in a storm. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
It will be weighted and glued with silicone as well which I would think would prevent it lifting and flapping. Another thought is that roofing plastic Sheet. Alsynite? I have an idea that actually comes in roof tile profiles as well as the standard Corrougations. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks for that link Tony, that's a very useful and clear instruction manual for anyone finishing off a building with flashing. And thanks too for the offer to pick up and send over some copper, it looks like it should be readily available over here, so shouldn't be a problem. The roof inlets will likely have a hood over them, as an extension of the main heater duct ... at least at the fan end and possibly at the other as well. So the flashing shouldn't have to be super strong ... just keep water out. I like the idea of making a sand hammer and beating the crap out of it. It's one of the best parts of the whole wood heater lifestyle ... taking my frustrations out on an oversize piece of wood with the log splitter ... manual style. Cheers, Roger |
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