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I finally purchased an outdoor 2kW Aurora (PVI-2000-OUTD-AU), back to grid inverter for $230 +$50 freight off ebay, said it works, sold with no guarantee, time will tell
My battery collection is now up to 5 with a promise of another 4, that a mate said were dodgy, hopefully the Desulfator will recover.
I have been Desulfator (recovering) all but a big battery from my 4x4WD that was only 2yrs old, initially one cell showed little response, I tapped, banged & dropped it to see if something my be shorting, but alas, so I put it at the back of the recovery line-up for now.
I currently only have a 3 small solar panels (SP), at this stage I still need to purchase the connectors & wiring, I want to test my system & make it safe when exporting back to grid. Our house is very old as well as the power box, it has spinner meter.
Obviously, I understand if connect to grid it would be Dangerous without fitting "a safety device" that stops the export of power when/if the grid is down.
What is that device called ?
Does anyone have a photo of one ?
Supplier & Price ?
Any links would be appreciated.
Regards,
Den.Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT !
See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com
domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873
Posted: 10:33pm 22 Jan 2015
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I am sure your grid tie inverter would be an anti-islanding type, meaning it stops exporting during grid failure. Best to read the manual if it came with the Aurora. Probably not if it is second-hand.
I have not read the previous messages, so I could be talking rubbish (first time this year!) trying to answer your "What is the device called?" question.Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.
You could be right, I will search for a manual online.
In a previous post months ago, Bob called it something, not sure what that was, as I was going to set-up a Chinese Power Jack (PSW-3500) 3500kw Inverter for my bush shack, however it was the type you would use in your vehicle for remote usage.
I am anticipating the learning curve with the Aurora inverter will assist me when I finally set-up my bush shack system.Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT !
See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 11:34am 23 Jan 2015
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Hi Madog
There is an isolation relay they use in the states but it is 3 phase one and quite expensive once you land it here, I have been trying to get hold of a single phase one her but no luck so far bind you I haven't tried very hard as the grid feed rebate is not really worth the effort now, the power jack ones I have tried all work OK on the islanding but what their long term reliability is heavens only knows a good manual switch in the system is the best but you need to be there to work it.
You are better to concentrate on your shack independent system with a switch over to mains as a backup if the mains are available.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
This Aurora 2000 watt transformerless outdoor grid connect inverter is a great choice for Australian solar power installations. Some of its many benefits and features include:
IP65 (NEMA 4) ruggedised, completely sealed unit to stand the harshest Australian conditions
High speed MPPT for real time power tracking and improved energy harvesting
Compact size and high power density: 2000W of output power in a box just 420mm x 326mm x 141mm
Front heatsink keeps the unit cleaner and more efficient over time
Transformerless operation for highest efficiency: up to 96%
Reverse polarity protection minimizes chance of damage due to mis-wiring
High overload capability: works up to 2000W under most ambient conditions
True Sine Wave Output
Anti-islanding Protection
Certified grid connected operation according to the international standards
LCD Display on the front to monitor the main parameters
Standard DC Multi-Contact terminals, screw terminals option available
INPUT PARAMETERS
Nominal DC Power [kW] 2.1
Max. Recommended DC Power [kW] 2.3
Operating Input Voltage Range [V] 90 - 580 (360 nominal)
Full Power MPPT input voltage range (symmetrical load) [V] 210-530
Full asymmetrical load input voltage range [V] NA
Absolute Max. Input Voltage [V] 600
Activation voltage "Vstart" [V] 200 nominal (adjustable within the range 120Vdc-350Vdc, independently/each input)
No of independent MPPT trackers 1
Max. Input Power, each MPPT [kW] 2
No. of DC Inputs 1
Max. DC Current, each MPPT [A] 10 (12 short circuit)
DC Connection 2 (1 positive, 1 negative)
MultiContact Ø 3mm (male - positive input + female - negative input)
Mating cable connector included
Conductor cross section: 4-6mmq/AWG12-10 - Cable Ø w/insulator: 3-6mm
INPUT PROTECTION
Reverse polarity protection Yes
Fuse rating, each input (-FS suffix versions only) NA
DC side varistors 2, thermally protected
PV array Insulation Control according to VDE0126-1-1
DC Switch (-S/-FS suffix versions only) NA
OUTPUT PARAMETERS
Nominal AC Power [up to 40°C, kW] 2
Max. AC Power [kW] 2
AC Grid Connection single phase 230Vac 50Hz + PE
Nominal AC Voltage [V] 230
Maximum AC Voltage Range [V] 180-264
Nominal AC Frequency [Hz] 50
Max. AC Line Current [A] 9
AC Connection Circular Bayonet Connector
Conductor Cross Section: Solid / Stranded: 0,5-2,5mmq / AWG 20-14
Outer Cable Ø: 10-12mm
Line Power Factor 1
AC Current Distortion [THD%] <2,5% at rated power with sine wave voltage
OUTPUT PROTECTION
AC side varistors 2, plus gas arrester to ground
Ground fault protection (AC + DC leakage current) according to VDE0126-1-1
CONVERSION EFFICIENCY
Max. Efficiency 96%
Euro Efficiency 95%
ENVIRONMENTAL PARAMETERS
Cooling Natural Cooling
Ambient Temp. Range [C] -25 / +55 (output power derating above 40C)
Operating Altitude [m] 2000
Acoustical Noise [dBA]
Environmental IP Rating IP65 <40 @1mt
Relative Humidity 0-100% condensing
MECHANICAL
Dimensions [H x W x D] 420 x 326 x 141
Weight [kg] 12
OTHER
Stand-By Consumption [W] 8
Feed In Power Threshold [W] 10
Night Time consumption [W] 0.3
Isolation No isolation, Transformer-less
Display YES (Alphanumeric 2 lines)
Communication RS485 (cage-clamp connector - Conductor cross section: 0,08-1,5mmq/AWG28-16); RS232 (DB9)
Optional “Aurora Easy Control” remote monitoring system
AVAILABLE PRODUCT VARIANTS
Standard no options
With DC switch NA
With DC switch and protection fuse/each input NA
Aurora 2kW Grid Connect Inverter Downloads
Foolin Around
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 01:05am 24 Jan 2015
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Progress Report
Hi All
Battery pack 1 now assembled and fited with desulphators and balance straps at 12 volts now hooked to the 2 float panels and floating at 27.5 volts 5 amps as the panels are floating the three banks the input current to each bank is around 1.75 amps, enough to float but not to cause excess gasing.
Several of the other suspect batteries have collapsed due to leakage between cells it seems that the sulphating had ruptured the cell dividers and there is a slighr leak between the cell electrolyte one to the other, while the cells are reasonably OK the heating caused by the charging is noticeable and now they are acting like a 2 cell battery showing 4.8 volts on resting,I may cut the side out of them and try a reseal as they are mechanically OK.
Next Monday holiday I hope to finish the new cables isolation switches to the new inverter and start load testing Bank 1 and 2 bank 3 is on a charge wire only at the moment so will need a shift and new cabling for a proper test, the charge wire is good for 80 amps only but that will work for initial low draw testing.
The desulphators are working across each 24 volt shelf, the leads are a bit long but they are working. I plan to put a desulphator across each 12 volt section when I get the rest of the parts to make them.
Bank 3 will be transferred to the lower shelf s of bank 1 and 2 now there is some room but cabled as a separate bank.
All the best
Bob
Foolin Around
gww1 Regular Member Joined: 14/06/2013 Location: United StatesPosts: 63
Posted: 04:32am 24 Jan 2015
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Thats a lot of batteries.
gww
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 11:18am 24 Jan 2015
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Hi Gww1
It sure is there was originally 64 batteries but when I first got them some where US and now with this last event I have lost 8 more so that's why the two vacant shelves.
You can see why it has taken me a while to treat them all, I hope now that they are re hydrated I will get a couple of years out of them to allow me to save for a NIFE cell set.
Just doing the cabling on this lot is a major contract.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873
Posted: 01:05pm 24 Jan 2015
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Switching to/from mains needs a break-before-make switch, one is made by Hager and another by Clipsal, cost about $100 for a manual one. Assuming one switches from mains to inverter/generator, the "break" ensures the safety of a linesman working on the line. I also think if your small inverter/generator feeds the entire neighbourhood after a mains failure, your system is experiencing overload and switches off anyway. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.
Winston Churchill
gww1 Regular Member Joined: 14/06/2013 Location: United StatesPosts: 63
Posted: 05:51am 25 Jan 2015
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I just made a manual transfer switch with my existing breaker box in my garage. The key is to have something that only allows you to turn on the generator/inverter breaker or main breaker at once and make it impossible for both to be on at once.
gww
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 12:25pm 25 Jan 2015
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Hi All
I have used a hot water change over switch made by Clipsal as it is robust reasonably small and looks like it is meant to be on the switchboard, it is single phase, for 3 phase Clipsal make a purpose built switch with spring assist for fast break make last time I bought one it was $55 but is very good quality.
Professor Bob ! Would it be possible to see a image of yours and part number ?Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT !
See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com
Desulfator Issues: After receiving the 3 Desulfator (way outside of Warranty) one actually worked through too the final recovery stage, I think we discovered a design problem.
As they gave me the second one, I pulled it apart and a 6 legged IC had Split, the IC was attached to a flat piece of Aluminium used as a Heat sink.
I am assuming the Heat Sink needed to be better or the plastic casing needs Vent holes as it gets very hot to touch, we have just had a few 38 degree days last week & the last one is still working fine.
I will see if I can get a new or replacement IC, then all the hassles and delay in recovering my battery will be worth it.
J-car did not stock it, will contact the Desulfator supplier.Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT !
See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 01:56pm 28 Jan 2015
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Hi Madog
The clipsal numbers I have are obsolete a bit like me really but I found a equivalent on Fleabay much cheaper, these people have all types of switches at very reasonable prices compared to AU suppliers.
This one could be used on single or 3 phase or parallel connected for more amps.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 02:05pm 28 Jan 2015
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Hi Madog
I have had no success with Jaycar desulphators, very low out put and the die all the time, that's why I went to the infinity ones, I have only managed to kill one of them, Stupid put a 12 volt one on 24 volts worked for a while but then died, I will dissect it to see why when i get time, but now I am going to have a go at building my own, about half the price and with heavy duty components. When I get all the parts I will post the construction and if it works OK. Rustyroy Has made several but I haven't heard from him the results yet maybe he will post his success / failure so we can all learn from it.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873
Posted: 12:31pm 29 Jan 2015
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Maddog:
Hager SF263, two pole changeover switch, 63A, DIN rail mounted, >$100 +GST. The hot water changeover switches are panel mounted in the main.Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.
Winston Churchill
rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121
Posted: 01:24am 01 Feb 2015
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The 6 volt desulfator is still singing/working on another battery.
I ran it for 2 weeks on the big 6 volt truck battery which has been standing now for 2 weeks and is holding its voltage and amps
Runs the vibrator radio
I do not believe it is completely sulfate free
I will attend to it more in the future
Meanwhile back to the old 32 volt bank of batteries. (see earlier post page 33)
photo 1
photo 2
4 of the batteries, coupled as 12 volt and in parallel. The volt meter shows 1 volt (no load) and the liquid level in the hygrometer is 20mm above the red, all cells the same. Note sulfation in cells
photo 3 Close up of sulfation
photo 4
I have made 2 more desulfators as per the parts I selected from Jaycar (shopping list page 34)
I can actually hear them oscillating and vibrating when I put them on the vent caps
Site of the sulfator article;- http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/uploads/VK4AYQ/2014-12-13_2 24229_desulfator.pdf - to save you going looking for it
I have no working oscilloscope only an audio tracer to hear the oscillations, so I do not know what output they have or what actual frequency they operate at.
These have been on charge for 2 weeks. AND NOTHING almost
The battery voltage is now 6 volts, The hygrometer = no change, No Gassing
The only amps drawn from the charger is what the desulfators use, About ½ amp each
Meanwhile back at the other bench !
The newer two of these 6 volt batteries have charged up and are holding
I charged them at 2.5 amps for 2 weeks and they have been left 2 weeks
I used a commercial desulfator
Did the desulfator help or the old magic stuff help? Or were they not so bad. As I said I got them at a different time to the others
I can see there is a lot of sulfation on the plates
No discharge/recharge cycle tried yet
I will attend to them more in the future
(below)
This the 7th battery, the one in the tray
I fibreglassed the split in the bottom and put the old acid back
photo 5
(below)
(The batteries at the back are the goodies and one has negative terminal gone also a positive lug off)
photo 6
The negative terminal has fallen off; I tapped a ¼ rod into it for a test.
This nearest cell has charged and is holding.
The center cell had high resistance so I turned the welder right down and connected it through a thin wire (red) for a fuse.
A lot of rotten egg gas/smoke came out. I switched it of and ran away until the smoke cleared
(Believe me I had a brand new battery blow up in my face as I was leaning over it once (long story)
First time I was ever glad that I wear glasses)
The last cell in this battery, I connected a 12 volt charger through a 12 volt 60 watt headlight bulb which will limit the charge to 5 amps.
The light was quite bright for a few minutes then it had gone out
It never gassed
Observation
I think there was a charge going into the cell. E.g. the bright light
I think the bridge post to cell tie bar joint has burned through in the corrosion and is now open circuit. E.g. NO light
As the terminals are falling off, so, I suspect the way the manufacturers attached the plates tie bar to the bridge posts has broken down and corroded away
This failure is only on the negative joints, all positive joints are clean and sound
I think the cells are OK only there is no negative connection to the outside bridges/terminals
photo 7, Inside the cell, corrosion between negative plates tie bar and bridge post
The plate assembly tie bar is visible in the background and is quite clean and solid
(See photo 3 where the 5 plates are joined solidly and the bridge post in background)
Observation
All the center cells are considerably more sulfated/corroded than any end cell
Some end cells are more affected than other end cells.
Conclusion
Center cells have gotten hotter during original charging as less of their sides are exposed to the atmosphere and compounded by the thick labels attached on both sides
The more affected end cells possibly were coupled together, again restricting ventilation around them
Summary
I believe I have good cells. The failure is on the negative joint between the plate assemblies and the bridge posts
If I was desperate and out on Mars or The Strzelecki Track I would drill a hole in the case directly above the plate assembly tie bar, screw in a new lead bolt? and bypass the other manufacturers joint.
So this battery is a 2 volt with a missing negative terminal ---- Useless.
I think I have little hope of recovering the other 4 for the same conclusions.
Even the goodies are showing signs of the joint failure
They will have to just look good on show in a display.Edited by rustyrod 2015-02-02Always Thinking
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 11:12am 01 Feb 2015
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Hi Rustyrod
You have been a busy beaver and it sounds like your desulphators are working, with that amount of sulphation it will take a long while to get results though, mine have been worked on for three months and still going, these desulphators are a slow and steady low power device designed to be left on rather than a King Hit one that puts a lot of energy in a short time.
I use my welder to get a non conducting battery moving, it is a Inverter type and I set it at 10 amps and it goes up to 50 / 60 volts and then when the battery starts accepting charge the volts drops back, just do it outside and switch on from a distance it saves running as I am not good at that anymore. An old bag over the battery helps to contain any fallout.
By the look of the construction of these batteries you could cut the top of each cell and lift out the plate pack to work on but I think you would need to fit bolt as you describe to see if they can be got moving first, before going to all that effort. If the plates can be salvaged you can make a new top from some acrylic sheet and reseal as the cases look to be reasonably sound, I suppose it depends on what you have in mind for the pack if it is revived, is it going to be put to use or just an exercise.
I actually did a flooring job for a mob in Sydney many years ago, and they gave me one like this but with only Two poles deep;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-660V-63A-12-Terminals-3-Positi ons-Latching-Rotary-Cam-Changeover-Switch-/390991465564?tfro m=301419937237&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined
It supposedly was for a forklift and from recollection it was rated for 650A.
I only wanted a duel battery switch over, never actually got a round to installing it as that beast of a 4x4WD is retired to a farm, but if anyone want a serous off-roader that will get you most places a $80k new 4X4WD will, this is my 2nd Beast I won't give away as it should go to a good home;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111585919975?ssPageName=STRK:MESE LX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649
Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT !
See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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