 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Other Stuff : Battery Rescue?
  Page 20 of 29   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
BobD Guru  Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
You can buy the IRF9Z34 here. for about $7. edit: just so no one gets confused it is actually a P channel MOSFET. RS Components also stock them (and cheaper) but I can't access their web site at the moment to give you a direct link. |
||||
rustyrod Senior Member  Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
mosfet IFR9Z34 60volt 18 amps [from specs off Bob's link] Jaycar specs mosfet IFR9540N 100volt 23 amps $4.95 [this one I will try] mosfet SUP53PO20 60volt 53 amp $4.95 mosfet 251162 160 volt 7 amp $19.95 I went here http://www.reuk.co.uk/Battery-Desulfation.htm and from there to forums allover and was amazed at the amps and voltages of the pulses that some are getting from their desulphators. serious stuff. Bob, I wonder if I connect a vibrator radio to my 6 volt battery with the charger and then enjoy the music as the spikes work on the crystals. Talk about a recycling radio. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Rusty Would be a good Idea if you can find one, Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi all Just a quick jump back to my battery bank I am trying to save. 
It has been a month now since I started this recovery The good news is that 23 batteries have responded positively to the treatment. The bad news is I have lost four, three to complete dehydration and one to a shorted cell. When I started this adventure I had no idea how bad the dehydration of the cells was and thought 50 or 60 mills of water would top them up, what a stupid optimist. So far I have used up 30 liters of distilled water over the 24 survivors and still adding. In reality it amazes me that they where still working (most that is) they must of had only a bit of dampness in the matrix to go on. I haven't done a load test yet as I am still trickle charging and desulphating the resting voltage of all batteries is 6.5 but the charging voltage varies across some batteries from 6.8 to 7.1 volts showing there is a variance in internal resistance due to sulphation, I will give them another week on the desulphators to see if I can get the voltages more even before load testing. SLA batteries certainly are good from a low maintenance view but the gradual evaporation of the water out of the electrolyte is their killer, the internals are very robust and good quality but the slow dehydration limits their useful life, also the higher the temperature the worse the condition, I had a set of batteries from a mine that lived in 40 plus temps and they failed very quick, on dismantling they where as dry as chips inside but I got to them to late to rehydrate them and had to scrap the lot over 2000 AH on 24 volts was a big loss, then stupid nearly let this set go the same way. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Thanks Bob I was wondering how your batteries were progressing. You have given me the courage for this challenge or experiment. 
These batteries were picked out from some scrap metal place about 14 years ago. There are four at 110 Ah, two at 105 Ah and the one in the middle at the front is 145Ah and I got it later. The other batteries seemed to have been originally purchased at different times. I got them home and added some “magic desulaphation fluid” as per instructions. I connected cells up for 32 volts and charged them with my Moffat Virtue 32 volt generator set for a couple of hours. Then over the next 3 or 4 years I dragged them around various old machinery rallies with the Moffat Virtue 32 volt generator set, displaying 32 volt equipment and appliances. The batteries were able to run a radio and a few lights all night without any problems and charged again next day. I never had a hygrometer then, so I have no idea what state or condition they were in. About 5 years ago I had a 32 volt radio playing away on them for a couple of hours. Then I have not looked at them since. The one at the left front was holed by a piece of gravel about 10 years ago at the last rally I attended, so I put it in the tray to catch the drips. Incidentally the fluid in the tray has a SG of 1260, indicating that it indeed leak out whilst the cell was charged. The one at the front Right has the positive terminal fallen off now and the cell is completely empty. Some of the others have completely empty cells, Most cells are low in acid. All the cells with liquid do not move the hygrometer. The 145 Ah battery has 3.4 volts total, measured with a digital multimeter. All the other cells measure about half a volt except the cell with the missing terminal and no fluid which measures 1.5 volts.(dry charged?) There appears to be no indication of them leaking on the wooden bench where they were stored, so where did the missing acid go? Surely it can’t evaporate? They were not connected to anything or each other. When I take batteries to the scrap I always drain the acid to use to clean copper ect. This old stored acid will just move the hygrometer, and tastes mildly. The liquid in the cells has no taste or extremely little. NO, I usually do not go around tasting batteries, but I wanted to know how weak the acids were. Now I need some cold liquid to wash the taste from my tongue. SO, I will use my collected very mild acid to refill those that are empty and distilled water to top the other low cells up again. I will build some of these 555 desulphators, connect the batteries in a 12 volt configuration and see what happens. The 145 Ah battery will be charged by it’s self, for a start then combined with the big 6 volt truck battery. Yes a big mismatch, but good for an experiment. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All Today I bit the Bullet and started on my number one battery bank 1000 AH @ 24 volt it was not in as bad a shape as the number two bank but still seriously dehydrated I drilled holes in the top of the case above each cell and started adding water I didn't disconnect the bank from the solar so was working on it live, no great drama as it is only 24 volt just have to be careful not to short out the cables as it would turn into a big welder. So far I have added 100 cc to each cell and am looking at 300 to 350 based on the other set. Slow job as I use a 10 cc hypodermic needle salvaged from the rubbish bin at the hosspiddle, some advantage in going to hosspiddle as they throw out all sorts of interesting pipes and syringes and things. This afternoon I started on bank three a 500 AH of SLA also. looks to be in better condition than one and two but I will do it while I am going it is two years younger than the others so hasn't had the dime to dry out so bad. It was a lot easier as all I had to do was pop of the cell covers and take off the pressure valve caps no drilling required. The only bad thing was it was 46 degrees in the shed so I lost a couple of Kilos in sweat, so now off to have a coffee to rehydrate me a bit. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
RUSTYROD If you keep drinking that battery acid your rod wont get rusty. I have a 12 volt battery 650 amp that the solenoid stuck and it melted the positive post off. it is a side post and I tried to put a bolt on it and pour lead back around it and it didn't work to well so next I drilled a hole through into the cell and taped it for a 5/16 bolt this worked for a while but the bolt came loose upon un screwing it the end that was inside was eroded away like it was sharpened in a pencil sharpener. this happened twice I didn't think the acid would eat the bolt up like that.? Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Guess where I went today? Christmas is early. 
I got 555s, TL804, A picaxe, opto couplers, chokes, mosfet, The fast diode, low impedance caps, 9v and 12v regulators, trim pots, leds, diodes, resistors and veroboard. They were out of the big choke and have ordered it for me. This is the most fun I've had in ages and Bob the shop was air-conditioned. Isaiah, I have stainless bolts and nuts holding my battery bank terminals and they seem to be still ok, however they are a little away from the acid. My Dad used to get resin from the trees and after cleaning up the burnt terminals he would put some resin in a rusty tin mould and pour molten lead in. There by replacing a damaged terminal. Which trees? Well we had black cyprus pine and brigalow. Why did I not pay more attention? But mine and possibly yours is in plastic and this will not be a good mould. I am going to try to tap in a 5/16 stainless and see how it goes. Bob, How do you tell how far above the plates you are topping up. I tried filling some little 12v 7ah by completely submerging them until the bubbles stopped then shook a bit out. How's that for accuracy? Then I charged them and wiped up any more overflow. They were happy for another couple of years, then faded away. I wonder what I did with them? More heat forecast for the next few days. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Rusty Great to see your enthusiasm and the practical side of the air conditioning, that's what I should have done too. My method of checking is real hi tech, it consists of a wooden scewer that fits through the 3/16 hole and I use that as a dip stick, (politician) the reason I go 10 cc at a time is it takes a few hours for the water to soak into the matrix between the plates and as these had badly dried out it is a slow process, the ones I started on a month ago are still taking water a little at a time. When the stick comes up wet on the end I let it set for a day and try again so far they are still taking a bit more each day. I like your method but these are a bit heavy for that each battery weighs nearly 30 Kilo, bit heavy for this old bugger to throw around, also your method wouldn't allow for slow absorption. Isaiah I had a tool for re doing battery terminals, I made it up on the lathe a piece of shaft with the tapered terminal shape inside a handle welded on the side so no burnt fingers then polish the internal taper as best you can so it doesn't grab, then heat it red hot and dip in oil to make a non stick surface on it, place this over the terminal stub after heating it real hot and pour your molten lead into it it will hold enough heat to allow the lead to combine with the original post, if you have drilled right through block the hole with some silicone so your lead doesn't end up in the battery, I found that clean beef fat works well for a flux so make sure the remaining stub is clean and shiny before pouring the lead. If you need more heat to get it to combine a hot air gun works well try it on a bit of lead and see if it has enough heat to melt the lead. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Does it mean you got all the parts for desulphator at JayCar? May I ask how much did it all cost you? As to improvised lead mould I used cut up metal tins. Thought for a while if I could use aluminium cans for a mould, as it is much easier to cut and form, but never tried it. Not sure if pine resin is enough heat resistant, as we used pine resin to keep fire up. George |
||||
| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
I used to use a hot air gun to solder battery cables. Beats the hell out of using a solder iron. Get a good one and you get plenty of heat for soldering. Just watch out for your fingers. |
||||
| isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Bob That is good info, I have been thinking of making a mold also. . This battery the problem is the plate connector came loose of the post! I had to run a wire in through the cap hole to hold it in place while I drilled it. If we could get part of the top off we may be able to do something else. Its hard times up here in Yankee land and we don't find the clunker battery's like we did a couple yrs back. The FDA Wont 0k battery acid for curing stomach ulcers. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
||||
Madog Newbie  Joined: 27/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
Can someone put a Link back to the “magic desulaphation fluid” Post, as mentioned above. Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events, Great minds discuss ideas, Be GREAT ! See this Great engine with No Crankshaft: http://www.revetec.com |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
This is what I used. Lucky I kept some of the boxes for 14 years. Can you guess I NEVER throw anything out! 
The little bottle cost $4.95 each then. The bottle held 92 ml. The instructions said for 60 ml for a 150AH battery so I halved it and I put 46 ml in each cell. There was 30 cells originally so I got 15 bottles. Well the batteries were pretty cheap at the time, swapped for a carton of beer. Point of interest---The inside of the case of the empty cells in the batteries has a coppery coloured residue on it. Looks like the plastic has a pale rust on it. Could it be the remnant of the cadmium sulphate reaction. I have this in My Landrover diesel discovery N50Z battery 
This battery is now about 6 years old and still happy. From somewhere deep in the grey area, Seem to recall it was fearfully expensive. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Isaiah You may need to cast a lead bolt to connect to the internal structure of the battery, a bit of plaster of paris to make a mold of a 3/8 unc bolt would work and give you a strong connection that the post can be cast on. I to have noticed the degrading in battery quality as you notice how much lighter the batteries are for their ratings, just designed to outlast the warranty period and that it. A little cutting disc in the angle grinder you could cut out the surround and epoxy it back in when you have it ready for the terminal. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Hi, I had a serious disaster with plaster of Paris. It was not dry and the moisture turned to Flash Steam and everything EXPLODED with hot plaster and molten metal flying everyway. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Rusty That can happen if you forget to oven it to get rid of the moisture I also learned that the hard way when making small castings in alloy, lost wax castings usually dry enough but I was impatient, it is amazing how many things we learn the hard way. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
I am going for the 12 volt one first. Smaller smoke? No, I hope to get it to work on the 6 volt big truck battery. The Mosfet IFR9Z34 is rated at 60volt 18 amps [from specs off Bob's link] And D1 GI826CT Fast recovery diode, >6 A, 100 V [from parts list] I will try these Jaycar specs Cat No… ZT2467…Mosfet IFR9540N rated 100volt 23 amp…$4.95 Cat No… ZR1028…BY229 Fast Diode rated 600 volt 8 amp…$5.95 Cat No…ZL3555…NE555 Timer Ic…………………………...$1.25 Cat No…PI6500….8 pin ic socket……………………………...$0.32 Cat No…LF1267…220uF 6amp Ferrite Choke…..ordered……$4.95 (Couldn’t get a 1000uF choke so I will series these 2) Cat No…LF1108… 470uH Ferrite Choke by 2x.60c.........$1.20 Cat No…RE6310…100uF 16 volt Low Impedance Electro...…$0.36 Cat No…RE6332…47uF 35 volt L I E (for C1)……………….$0.36 I had ceramic caps…but all are 32c for 2, so 2 pkts……………$0.64 I had resistors………but all are not much……………………...$0.05 Cat No…HP9550…Vero board 95 X 72 mm…………………..$4.50 If I added it right…………………………………sub…...…$24.53 Labor with Coffee or beer and patience...sundry bits………lots of ? But will it work? If it will, then I MAY make 2 more for the old lighting plant batteries. I’m expecting failure at recovering them or it will be a long process. I am thinking I will connect them up as three sets of two with sets of thin leads from the charger and a desulphator across each pair. Wait a minute, get one desulphator going first, I haven’t turned the soldering iron on yet. Then I need to fix the batteries. Liquid and terminals ect. Nothing like ambition or is it dreaming? Well anyway it keeps me in “The Back Shed” 
I have my insect singing sweetly. It's loud so listen carefully and you will hear it ringing in your ears. Now I have to wait "patiently" for the big choke. Always Thinking |
||||
| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Hi All, The choke came Friday, so soon had it soldered in. I hooked it up to the big 6 volt battery this morning. 
Is it working? I have connected my signal tracer directly to the battery and I have a slight 50Hz hum as you would expect from the battery charger AND the high pitch squeal. So I connected the signal tracer to a battery with the commercial desulphator, there is the hum and each time the led flashes a similar tone. Mine is louder and constant. Next I connected an amp meter between the battery charger and the commercial unit and it draws about .001 of an amp then I connected the battery and it draws .005 of an amp. This is only when the indicator led is on. Ok, what about mine? Connected to the battery charger it draws .005a With the battery connected it draws .25a. The Mosfet and the Fast diode are nice warm and the choke is just warm. I am looking “in the shed” for Dad’s frequency counter and will compare the frequencies. Remember this is all on a 6 volt battery. In the circuit the 12 volt version has a 220uH choke and the 24 volt version has a 330uH choke SO, I put a 100uH choke in my 6 volt version. If the commercial unit draws 1/20 of an amp and mine draws Ľ of the amp, IS MINE 5 TIMES MORE POWERFUL ? Is it dissolving crystals or just using up power from the battery charger? Time will tell I suppose. What other tests could I do, Please? A BIG thanks to VK4 bob for showing me in this direction. Always Thinking |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Rusty Sounds like you have a real success on your hands there, to have a look at what it is doing you will need a CRO to read the waveform a little test I do with the Infinity ones is to see if there is arcing when you connect to the battery, if it is working there is a nice fat continuous arc. It shows that we can stretch the skills a bit and save money, but as you say the proof will be if it works and desulphates the battery, for that we have to wait a couple of weeks. I have been going through my battery banks desulphating them after the big dry out and most are responding well just a slow process, I will have to build a few of these and spread them around the battery bank. One thing you could try is to get a little transistor radio set on AM it should pick up any radiated signal from the device. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| Page 20 of 29 |
|||||
 Print this page |
