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Forum Index : Solar : Solar Farm Practicallity
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Vic et al We are but able to contribute a small amount towards to solving the worlds pollution problems, and whether we are subsidized or not or got a good deal on feed in tariff will make little difference in the longer term, but what is important is that we are willing to have a go. In real terms what we do or do not do will make no measurable difference to the world problem as it is so massive that it would require all the world inhabitants to have a go at pollution reduction and that will not happen under the present commercial political systems. Development depends on energy and the cheapest will win, as mentioned earlier that China is developing coal power plants at an unprecedented rate while producing most of the PV panels and smaller wind turbines for commercial domination of the market. Australia is selling coal at never before seen quantities, so is infact providing the means for wholesale pollution in the rest of the world while purporting to be a country aiming to meet a pie in sky reduction in home pollution. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Is the only that will stop coal burning is the price to buy it? There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Madness Thats true and that will be by the demand and scarcity of supply much the same as we see with petrol prices now, it has been going up and at each price rise we wonder how we can afford it, but we still fill the tank and fork out $100 plus dollars, energy will be the same and is the same now with a lesser inflation rate, I do remember when I winged about the KW price of 4 cents. Now with GST and fees and charges it is a fraction over 30 cents. The solar farm concept is business concept to isolate one from the power inflation which is sure to come as government privatizes the power industry, it also gives the satisfaction of giving the one finger salute to the system while making some profit out of the venture. Personal satisfaction is not a matter of cost efficiency or convenience as is demonstrated by a glass of beer, a few cents worth of water hops and malt and some unmentionable chemicals and we pay $4.00 plus for a decent drink, when we could and do make the same amount for 30 cents. While we have the lifestyle of the rich and famous we will be slaves to the system and continually have an empty pocket while powering all the gadgets we think nessesary for a comfortable life style. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Madness Thats true and that will be by the demand and scarcity of supply much the same as we see with petrol prices now, it has been going up and at each price rise we wonder how we can afford it, but we still fill the tank and fork out $100 plus dollars, energy will be the same and is the same now with a lesser inflation rate, I do remember when I winged about the KW price of 4 cents. Now with GST and fees and charges it is a fraction over 30 cents. The solar farm concept is business concept to isolate one from the power inflation which is sure to come as government privatizes the power industry, it also gives the satisfaction of giving the one finger salute to the system while making some profit out of the venture. Personal satisfaction is not a matter of cost efficiency or convenience as is demonstrated by a glass of beer, a few cents worth of water hops and malt and some unmentionable chemicals and we pay $4.00 plus for a decent drink, when we could and do make the same amount for 30 cents. While we have the lifestyle of the rich and famous we will be slaves to the system and continually have an empty pocket while powering all the gadgets we think nessesary for a comfortable life style. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Woops like the a hiccough on the uploading sorry about that. Foolin Around |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
I think that was very well said Bob, and you are 110% correct. If you want to pay for a energy hungry lifestyle you will be a slave to the energy man, should you choose to cut your costs and you adjust your life style, then you will be a free man. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Are you Irish Bob? to be sure to be sure. As fuel prices go up we look for ways to save and fitting gas is one method that some people use. Others are riding scooters to work etc to find ways to spend less on fuel. With electricity if it was 4 cents a KWH how many would pay to put solar panels on their roof. A few die hard radical cashed up greenies might but most would not bother. More people are doing things to reduce their power bill, I know someone who bought a house with 150 downlights in it, he spent quite a lot getting them replaced as his power bill is over $800. Although his wife still does not bother to hang the clothes on the line, they ALL go in the dryer. However they also now have a 5 KW solar grid tie system. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi madness Sounds like he should hand the power bill to his wife and tell her to budget it out of her housekeeping, after he gets out of the dog house, he could explain the concept of a solar powered clothes dryer called a clothes line, very high tech and runs at no cost. I am only half Irish but that allows me to tell Irish jokes but not here as I will get into trouble for nit being politically correct. I take your point of juggling income to expenses, and have you noticed hoe society keeps things just affordable even if it means getting a bugger limit on the card, how many balls can you juggle before starting to drop the occasional one, and on a pension I can tell you from bitter experience it isn't very many. I was one of those die hard greenies you mention always looking at alternate power, as in wind water steam and boiling oil and I remember the new hi tech solar panel I saved for 12 months to buy a 40 watt beauty that cost over $800 dollars and you wouldnt believe the number of things I run of that panel and a little VAWT. I converted a old Morris Minor to a hybrid that took me to town and back on battery power a round trip of 20 klm and by running the little diesel motor a round trip of 120 miles for around 2 liters of diesel (half a gallon in those days)so yes it can be done without to much expense if you are prepared to experiment a bit. I even used a horse on occasion as I had a few employed as mowers on my rural block. Not socially acceptable these days or even safe with the amount of crazies on the road. My house had a 32 volt light system run off a old wind turbine I salvaged off a farm a HWS run off the wood stove and power points connected to the grid.No air-conditioning, just a water cooler salvaged from an tobacco humidifier. I had a rotary converter I salvaged off a farm, a Davey 1500 watt unit as a power backup and a heap of batteries I resuscitated out of farm machinery. All in all it cost much more than the electricity bill at the time but I got great satisfaction and fun from doing it and a few laughs when people where ringing the local power supplier complaining that they had no power but the guy up the road still had power. All good fun All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
You might be dusting off that old Morris soon if you still have it Bob. Another way is to run on Wood Gas, I have done it to run a generator for cloudy weather. 200 Litres of wood chips keeps it going for 6 - 8 hours at 3.5 KW output. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
One would expect Bob has used wood chips when most here was still in nappys. There is a few people like Bob that has tried these things, years before many of you even thought/knew of it. I only want a day or several to see Bobs shed/s/s/s and get inside his head of life time knowlwdge to RE and everything else. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Madness Unfortunately I do not have the old Morris any more it was one of the things left behind when I sold up in Victoria and moved to QLD. I have been on the look out for a 48 volt fork lift motor for the past few tears and one of the Petter power packs I had originally but no luck so far. There are a few high power purpose built motors available but at the price asked it would be cheaper to run petrol for the next ten years and I do not think I have that amount of time left in me anymore, see Trev's conversion, under EV in the forum, I am looking for a Mercedes diesel as I know that it will run on vegi oil and that is easier and cheaper to make than other alternatives. My friend in Victoria run his whole farm off 5 acres of sunflower and fed the pigs on the de oiled kernels made into pellets that saved a big food bill for the pigs and provided manure for the sunflower field and other fields as well. At the time distillate was 9 cents a liter. so it would be more worthwhile at today's prices. The methane gas digestor on the pig pen provided enough power to supply all electricity used on the farm. On a larger scale project like a farm a combination of processes can be combined, all sorts of things can be achieved without resorting to hi tech, nature has in place all the natural processes to be utilized. Hi Pete My old gas producer was a cumbersome device based on the one my Dad had on his truck during WWII while it worked OK it did cause excessive wear on the engine due to ash in the gas that the water filter didn't clean properly, but the main reason for giving up on it was that it was a fire hazard, and as I was assistant fire officer at the time and as you know Victoria is a tinder box for 3 plus months of the year. The oil seed distillate was a much safer option. These days my travel is limited to 5-600 klm per month going shopping and snooping around interesting junk heaps, so a modest amount of fuel is required, teamed with a HHO injector a vegi fuel is very workable. Gas has a place in a stationary application, I tendered for and got a gas powered plant out of an old building in Melbourne many years ago 1967 I think, it was a Crossley gas engine 100 HP run of town gas with a 110 volt DC generator and a heap of Nife cells, what a contract that was, I had to dismantle the engine as it weighed over 20 tons even the generator weighed 5 + ton's and each battery was over 2 tons, it hadn't been run for 20 years and was a bit of a challenge but it did go again on LP gas but used so much that the bottle froze up. The batteries charged up again and my old mate who had used some during the war showed me how to change the electrolyte, Unfortunately it would have needed three semi loads to bring them to Qld so they where sacrificed. I wish I had them now but they would be 100 years old so may be past usefulness. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I find the mention of a 1 MW lower limit on the size of the solar farm highly suspect. I have trawled through several documents I have and the closest I can get is clauses dealing with site inspections and individual poles and wires companies stipulating what can go on their lines and what upgrades if any are needed to handle the power injection. There was/is a distinction between under and over 100Kw as to what renewable certificates they can produce (over 100Kw is one large generator certificate per megawatt of power produced) is that all gone in July? Is there a distinction between a solar farm that purely exports and a business user that uses some power installing 100Kw in QLD? I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Yahoo2 You are not the only one who considers 1 MW minimum highly suspect, unfortunately that is the stipulation of Ergon to access the HV line that crosses my land as stated previously. It is not a lower limit on solar farms but a lower limit for that line. There is a definite distinction between solar farm and commercial users, I believe this applies throughout OZ. I am not aware the LGC is going in July, could you expand on that. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
TV show "Grand Designs" did a series on building a back yard methane producer where about a couple of decent handfuls of fresh dog poo produced enough gas to boil a kettle of water. I like the idea as I'm sure it would fit in just about anyone's backyard and provide compost as a by product. I wonder just how much renewable energy fuel we simply flush down the dunny hole. As I understand, methane produces about half the CO2 as fossil based fuel?? I really don't think we as a population (world wide) are doing enough to pursue technologies that are simple and relatively cheap to build and solve a lot of our waste problems in the process. David M. |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
That's just the thing, I don't know! the senate changes in July and rumor is that changes to some existing carbon credit schemes will follow. there was supposedly a document released from the govt on the Friday before Christmas detailing what areas are proposed to stay and what is under review. I hear there is not much detail in it but I haven't found it myself. Most of the info on the internet is useless cos it is out of date. I have no info of what is in the Direct Action Plan and Emissions Reduction Fund that is proposed. I have dealt with ETSA a few times in the past and what was set in stone at the start rapidly become negotiable when the right parties got involved. Unless Ergon can point to a legitimate reason for their decision they are just seeing if you will blink and run away. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
There is certainly some lobby pressure to make changes to the Renewable energy Act 2000 http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/08/renewable -energy-target-faces-delay and a period of public submissions till late February on some of the existing proposed changes. http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/clean-air I am not real happy about whatever happens. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Making your own methane is 100% ahead of burning dino fuel as your dog crap is renewable. Methane is CH4 so when it burns you get 2 water molecules H2O and one carbon monixide CO, the carbon monoxide will also burn to produce 1 carbon dioxide CO2. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Yahoo2, Yes I believe your on the money, Ergon wants me to blink and run away. WHY? But for the exercise I`ll persist and test the waters a bit more, mainly my time and other parties time that will be wasted, although I do believe if I was in a more populated area with more commercial business wishing to purchase cheaper power that is only 8/24 would be a different story perhaps. To make your own energy in the backyard whilst appealing to the individual may not be the best for the environment, all those small plants do not seem to be very good for the environment, lack of scale and efficiencies, but that is purely my viewpoint. Even if one were to look at our solar panels and wind turbines, the production of such is very power intensive, in that respect there seems to plenty of "stats" that show they are not exactly good for the environment. I just wonder for the environment if we should hang fire, use coal until alternative energy technology has given us better batteries etc. Meanwhile if your on the grid as Bob explains, we(collectively) are power mad, you can cut your power consumption with some care and hardly notice the dif. But then again I`m a bit negative at the moment, my proposal looks like going south. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
If they make it this far south, I'll keep an eye out. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, (I'm sure I read it some where), but the neodymium super magnets in the big wind turbines each produce around 300 kilos of radioactive toxic waste being pumped into small lakes. (settling ponds?) I'll do a bit of a web search. If it is indeed the case, that is not very environmentally friendly. I'll let you know what I come up with David M. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
I had a few minutes skim over the web on neo magnet production and there is very little being given away by manufacturers other than post mining construction. There is a quite a lot from environmentalist groups though. Enough to be concerned but not yet convinced. Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. David M. |
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