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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : A Very British 8 bit Question
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| twofingers Guru  Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1241 |
I vaguely remember ... Elektor-Computer SC/MP causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence |
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Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
I've Never seen a Beeb in the USA, Although Right now I'm rewatching Micro Men (thanks Tom) and not to be Rude, I can see why Acorn got the BBC Contract, if I was Chris Curry They'd still bee digging bits of Clive Sinclair's Hand out of that bar after her took a swing on me! I'm looking on ePay UK for a Case and KB :) I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
For SC/MP fans. https://techlib.com/area_50/Readers/Karen/micro.htm Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
OK Mixtel, Thanks Now I'm hooked on another Project, I'm going to be obsessed with! That digital Orrery is Cool as all. Add one more Project to the list of Projects where my project Aspiration far out strips my Abilities! It would be NEAT to build one with a pico mite instead of the Pic ;) I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
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PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 368 |
 Hands down, the Amstrad 6128. But that's an unfair comparison, as it came much later than the other big names (Spectrum, BBC, Atom etc.). All of those were brilliant for their own reasons. I would have been over the moon with any of them, but as an owner/programmer for Spectrum, BBC Micro, Oric Atmos, Commodore 64 and Dragon 32, when I finally got a 6128 (with floppy disk drive and colour monitor) I was truly in programmer heaven. Crisp graphics and relatively unlimited fast storage. To be honest, I don't think I ever used the upper 64K of ram beyond experimenting with it - you didn't need to with a floppy drive. But it's killer version of BASIC and easy Z80 assembler made it a dream to program (though I believe it did have issues with smooth scrolling screens) - and the screen memory map was a bit wonky. It's also a bit of an unfair comparison, because it was significantly more expensive than the Spectrum - but the question was for the "best British 8-bit" - not the most cost effective  |
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stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2122 |
T amstrad did not have tv out, you needed the monitor and that cost more than a tv then. best feature was palette colour switching which would be nice in mmbasic |
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| PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 368 |
Yeah - if I remember correctly, the power supply was in the monitor - so it was intended to be sold as a complete package. I'm not sure if you could even buy it without the monitor. And good news, MMBasic does have palette switching (at least the CMM2 does - I don't know about the others). It's the MAP(x) command which allows you to remap a colour (remember to use "MAP SET" when done). |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
We used a SC/MP as the heart of a hot-house automatic plant watering system in a research laboratory I worked in (CSIRO for the locals). It replaced some hard wired logic. Before that, we thought going from discrete transistors to ICs was cutting edge. Jim VK7JH MMedit MMBasic Help |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135 |
On the PicoMiteVGA the palette is set by the hardware between the VGA socket and the 4 colour output pins. Peter has pointed out a number of times you can have any palette you want by changing the resistors and defining new RGGB values for the 4 pins in your program. There is a thread here where I do that with plug-in modules, but it could be done electronically with some extra logic and analogue switch chips. Footnote added 2024-07-19 11:01 by phil99 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=16028&PID=206028#206028#206000 Footnote added 2024-07-19 11:40 by phil99 For some unknown reason that link jumps to the middle of the thread. Scroll to the top. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
I honestly can't choose a "best" British 8-bit. The specification is way too wide. We've had everything from the little things with numeric LED display and buttons up to machines running CP/M natively - and all 8-bit. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
After disappointment of the Speccy's Basic, which could have been such a cool thing, I really Admire the Hardware and the "Built to a Price" craftiness of the Time, and even as a NON-Programmer I really like the Z80 over the 8080 any day! I really WISH Gary Killdall had take'n his Proper Place as Bill Gates LORD & MASTER ! CPM was a Much better OS than DOS! anyway I been playing with lots of emulators on the Pi 400 and my Orange Pi 800 and now I'm looking to expand out to 8-bit machines I've never Played with maybe even seen! I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4223 |
In those "golden" years (1977-1987) every year there was something new. Sure.. the BEST was always the latest one. Hence the CPC6128. It must have been really "the last 8 bitter". I was always impressed by lean designs. How much can you do with little. If I had to choose a Brittish computer to fit that bill, it would be the ZX81. But honestly, I think it is pale in respect to what a single man in Australia achieved in 2011: The Monochrome Maximite. For me the MM (or CMM1 1 year later) are brilliant. Not 8 bit, not Brittish, but a marvel. If Clive had seen this, the ZX81 never existed. And of coarse their successors, as CMM2 and PicoMiteVGA (or CMM1.5). Volhout How hard can it be.... well Geoff... it was hard. Edited 2024-07-19 16:26 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
The ZX81 was an amazing machine - and it's still a lesson in how to get the most out of a small number of components. The ULA wasn't new, but the way in which it was used was. The Z80 isn't normally used by stopping its clock while something else sneaks in and takes control of the bus either. :) I'd argue that Sinclair BASIC on the Speccy is probably one of the very best versions of the language, particularly the string slicing which enabled you to do things normally only possible on much bigger versions but in a much simpler way. People laugh at the Sinclair keyboards, but if you actually use one for programming you soon discover that the multi-layering of key presses often works in your favour. Yes, its confusing at first but it was very cleverly done. There are a lot of commands on there but very often there are less key presses needed than to type the full commands on a conventional system. I tried a "proper" Speccy keyboard case and TBH I didn't find it as easy and comfortable to use as the original rubber one. It's to do with how far you need to stretch your fingers to get the button combinations, I think. The layout wasn't designed for bigger keys. The Speccy wasn't designed to be a games machine even though that's how most got used, it was designed as a very low cost educational computer. I think it met that goal quite nicely. I can well understand "Uncle" Clive's enthusiasm for it and his sometimes rather virulent defence of it. I agree with him that, at least in earlier school years, it might have been a better choice than the BBC Micro simply because people could afford to have one at home as well. It had to have compromises - the very bottom of the range BBC Micro also had compromises, just different ones. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
If this is true then (according to Wikipedia) BBC Master 128 for the win (early 1986) c.f. CPC6128 (back-end of 1985)  .Best wishes, Tom Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4223 |
While we are at the Beeb... Did anyone ever try to port Elite to the CMM2 ? I know no-one ever did for the Pico, but maybe it was tried for the CMM2. With the math commands in Pico (as CMM2), Elite could be very viable... Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2122 |
amstrad 464 drew lines in colours but set to background and without redrawing could make say blue set background colour to white. you could cxhange the colour of anything on screen without redrawing it. not in mmbasic. dunno if bbc had same graphics chip as amstrad and could do same palette switching. |
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| Goksteroo Senior Member  Joined: 15/03/2021 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114 |
Almost agree with this, but the 6128 was second to the Amstrad 6128 Plus with 4096 colours, hardware sprites, DMA access to the sound chip, etc. Not sure if this ever came to Australia, but it came too late in the 8bit cycle and was over taken by the ST and Amiga 16bit era. Geoff |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
I think Volhout has the right idea. The MMBasic family are probably the nicest "80's"home computer experience you can get. Ok, they aren't 8-bit but they look a lot like it. Hardware support is better than most home computers gave you and we have the advantage of better displays and keyboards. MMBasic is close enough to GW Basic, and far better than the Microsoft Basic that some came with. I was looking at an Apple II emulator a while ago. I came away wondering why anyone would ever want one, still less to run one in emulation. :) I've got/had my share of old hardware now and TBH I can't be bothered setting it up (or getting it running in some cases). The "user experience" that was fun at the time is amazingly frustrating now. lol You pay more for a single chip to get some of the old 80's computers working than you would for an entire MMBasic computer. Things have moved on a little. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2122 |
I got a raspberry pi 400, the one with a built in faulty keyboard and running twister os from a usb ssd with a 250 Gb ssd just with 2000+ spectrum roms, loads of nintendo,snes and n64 roms.ps2&ps3, loads of atari, running under emulation station. That kingston ssd stopped working. I downloaded the n64 roms again but need setting up emulation station and don't know how. I agree at 70 nostalgia isn't what it was. Playing games I played with my children is sad. I got a 3d pool pc game that I play with friends that's still fun but can't remember playing real pool in a pub been so long. |
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Martin H. Guru Joined: 04/06/2022 Location: GermanyPosts: 1113 |
For people who would have liked to have had Spectrum Next but didn't get one, there is now a relatively cheap clone available  Xberry-Pi From the Website: 'no comment |
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