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Forum Index : Solar : inverters expect failure at 15 years
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| petanque don Senior Member  Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
It the risk of sounding like I study business at Uni. Many warrantees only apply to the person who purchased the product. After all it is an agreement between the manufacturer and the purchaser. It is not an agreement between the manufacturer and the rest of the world. So the scenario is people move in and decide they want a solar system. 6 months later it is installed and working as specified. The people who purchased the system now sell the house with the system on the roof while it is still under warrantee. New owner moves in and the inverter fails. The inverter is not under warrantee because there has been a change of ownership even if the inverter is newer than the warrantee period. So the inverter repair or replacement ends up not being paid for by the manufacturer. While the change of ownership is irrelevant to the inverter failing it does reduce the liability of the manufacturer. |
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sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Was just reading specs on the new Selectronic SR inverters, and noticed this: "Lifetime monitored capacitors with service alert" Selectronic SR Inverter Features Not sure what happens at "service alert". Maybe you have to send it back, or have a tech come out & change them. Interesting that it is an issue being noted my manufacturers. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| michael Regular Member  Joined: 06/12/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 40 |
$6700 for the smallest model. Only 7 year warranty still. SMA new TL range cheaper and 10 year warranty options Bluetooth wireless monitring is standard also with new TL range... selectronics. .Capacitor monitoring ? selectronics may actually say these capacitors have failed, but still seems no guarantee. 95 % effecient selectronic 97% effecient SMA |
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| michael Regular Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 40 |
http://www.sma-australia.com.au/en_AU/products/solar-inverte rs/sunny-boy/sunny-boy-3000tl-4000tl-5000tl.html compare TL 3000 watt to the selectronic.. price varies deending on your source $3200 retail is one price given |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Michael, I compared the Sunny Island 5048 ($9440rpc) to the SR Selectronic 48V 6kw unit ($8890rpc). The SMA is more expensive, made OS, and has less features. The SR unit has more power o/p per $, and has been better designed for Australian climate as it is rated at full continuous power at 40C, not 25C, which is important if you live in the tropics like I do. I don't wish to get into a slinging match, but there needs to be a fair comparison of apples and apples. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| michael Regular Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 40 |
I agree, sPuDd, it is all personal choice. I think it all comes down to price against features as well. There is a big discount to be had with inverters if you can go through a Company and buy in bulk. Half the price of normal retail. SMA is more willing to discount for the right customers.. Example sunny boy sma 1100w retails $2100-$2800 approx but available in Bulk for $1100 or less. If you take this example for the SMA TL range that may alter opinions. Inverters of $$ higher dollar values I think even though weather protected should be under cover. Long term I always like larger Companies for Parts, and I mean long long term, and SMA and Fronius etc are good for that. But I dont disagree the Selectronics is a great unit. You buy what suits your needs and budget. |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Michael, what would a company define a 'bulk' before this kind of discounting talk would occur? 10 units? 100 units? I'm afraid the average person like me will have to pay retail, but be expecting a high return for their investment. As for weather protection. I lost a Siemens German made 5Kw UPS to our weather. It was in my office, but even though our high elevation is away from the salt coast, it rains here 300 days a year. Corrosion ate into one of the control boards before I noticed, and it failed in a spectacular manner. I like the sound of a silicon conformal coating on the Selectronic units. I even coat my home made PCBs with PCB lacquer to fend off the environment. I suppose that’s nature - always trying to take back that which we took. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| michael Regular Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 40 |
Bulk, depends on lots of things. For inverter big discounts you are talking minimum 100 units, but huge discounts apply for 1000 units plus. Hence some cheap solar installers around at present. Same as solar panels, not just container load,but 6 container loads. Anyway, you can approach these large installers, and ask to buy a unit at a great price, where they may make a profit, not much, but a profit and move stock, but you make a large saving. Its how a few people I know have done it recently. Weatherproof inverters, you bet. You can have an inverter under the eaves, as in a small latronics that is not weatherproof and does not need to be. But for a few hundred dollars more you can have an SMA weatherproof, for peace of mind. Or a housing, but this is still no good for salt air. Re-inverters prices I have seen on paper, as in not hearsay for SMA 1100w retail, or price sold to customer range from $1100-$2800 Now if the Company, a large solar company can sell you an inverter for less than a sparkie can buy it for trade, then they are the Company I would aproach. But they dont do selectronics. Maybe some do, but I doubt selectronics move that much on price anyway being smaller. I am sure there is little margin left when they sell a unit for $1100, but its like all things in bulk, if you see the figures from Companies re mark ups its staggering. Our friends have various Companies and it is amazing the mark ups. shirt at myers for $110, bought for $7 from China. $35 computer chip for a holden bluetooth carkit, sells for $420 at the dealer. not saying anything new, but it always amazes me $$ mark ups..., the big inverter Companies have a lot more room to move than the smaller ones. SMA have 60 percent of the World inverter market and growing. |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
I know well what you mean about retail & bulk pricing. Was working for a very large well known Electrical & Furniture Franchise recently and happed to glance at an invoice for 2x 20foot containers of 105cm LCD TVs. They were less than $700ea delivered to the franchisee, and were on 'special' for $2400ea on the shop floor. Even for me, when I buy electronic parts, I buy 100+ at a time even though I'm a small guy. It can be as much as 50% cheaper. That means half my stock was free compared to single pricing! Sure it may take a while to burn it all up, but I have endless storage space so... Oh, and online surplus stores are the bomb. I’ve bought 1000x German made resistor packs for less than $4. I sound like a woman shoe shopping now….. Still, I may have to do much talking when it comes to a big RE system purchase for myself. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| michael Regular Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 40 |
yes I undwerstand sPuDd 1kw or 6 panels at 170 Watt each total 1020watts retail $1100-$1800, so a 1KW = $6700-$10,000 retail at most Solar stores. Even online about $880 a 170w panel bulk buy, ie container $2300 australian for 6 panels. If you buy more than one container comes further etc. Sky is the limit...Its why the bulk installers are cleaning up. Manufacturers are dropping wholesale prices 30 percent further this year I was reading in China Daily news online. Bargains to come.. |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Yeah, its buyers market. I'd love to be in a position to bulk buy that stuff for a big home setup 
sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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fernbrae 1 Newbie  Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi sPuDd, I am in a position to be able to import Solar panels at Wholesale prices . These are from China from an Iso 9000 supplier and are really good pricing . I am able to get small numbers or larger quantities if the situation requires . What are you looking for ?? type and quantity??? E-mail me fernbrae5@bigpond.com. I will send all the information if required . Rgds Greg loving life lets be active . |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Yep, like I said: "I'd love to be in a position to bulk buy that stuff for a big home setup" sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
so therefore , in other words you have no reason /money to purchase any panels no matter what the price . Sorry I wasted my time to respond. Rgds Greg I am amazed that there is a lot of people who aspire to wanting to be see to be green and get all happy ,when the oppotunity arises every body puts their head back in the sand and plays with their 100 amp hour battery and wind generator and their 11 watt fluro globe and says look at me arent I good , I am saving the planet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well this really ticks me off , I am genuine and have the means to do something about this .!!!!!!!! Get real ,and do something that will make a difference, at least be genuine about what you desire . This is the reason why I joined this forum, I thought that I may be able to help you people to get what they required and be a little GREEN along the way. Clearly this is not the case and there are many who desire , but really are only playing a game . And like their name in print but really have no great dsire to be green in any imagine of the words . Good luck as this is the last post I will place on this forum. Formally a great beleiver Greg loving life lets be active . |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
I had the opportunity to photograph the result of a a spectacular failure of a grid inverter. Here are some photos. 
The PCB crumbled away under where the PVinput bypass cap was. Manufacturers need to pay more attention to providing units with a decent service life. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| thebwow8 Newbie Joined: 06/07/2010 Location: Posts: 1 |
You are all so serious. I bring laughter, gaiety, and warmth into the world. The sun is yellow, the moon is yellow, the stars are yellow. Every time you look at a sunflower, the whole world starts to smile. Without me there would be no fun. The one you share wow gold the joys and hardships with. |
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Downwind Guru  Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Hi thebwow8 I think you best put the bong away and get back intouch with reality. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Guys I read the whole post with interest and I really think that you mostly are on the wrong track. I believe that all this gear is made to fail, and it is mainly a matter of luck and the good Asian hands that assemble the gear as to how long it lasts, All electros fail that's an accepted fact, and it is nearly impossible to get good quality components now as they are made in Asia and branded as an expensive components. Maybe the exception is the mill spec parts as I have some that are 40 years old and still going. My theory is to buy 2 units cheeep ones if you cant afford better, and according to Murphy.s law if you have a spare, the component will not fail. Seriously though I put aside a maintainence fund, currently $20 a week to cover replacement of critical components, "self insurance and warranty" if you like, electricity costs money and that is half what was my electricity bill was before, on this basis I have been able to maintain my systems and upgrade a bit also. You also end up with lots of interesting junk to fool around with. Being a ham for years I found that power circuit electros need replacing every two years whether they need it or not, as when they fail there is usually seveeeer damage to everything, another thing is the heat sink compound that dries out over time and constant load hi temp conditions, the other thing I have seen is on a lot of inverters is the FET mounting screws where loose, causing the Fets to overheat. I also think that with the amount of inverters around now and more in the future that there would be a good opportunity for a yong goer to set up a service center, as there is virtually no facilities for service available now. Us old farts would rather send the spare inverter for a service every couple of years rather than trying to do it with poor eyesight and shaky hands. In ten years time electronic Inverters will be better and cheaper than now because that's the way of electronics, so to keep an old one for more than ten years is a farce. Even our pacemaker needs an upgrade if we outlive the battery. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Incidentally can buy an SB1100 on ebay "overstocked item" for under $1000 now. Pity they are such a piece of sh*t -efficiency wise. i'd still spend the extra and go for a PVE1200 (now good for 1600W) at $530 more bills or better the CMS at $1750 and will happily run 2.6KW array 
the old school SMA's in my opinion are obsolete (nonTL's) already. Luck favours the well prepared |
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