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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135
Posted: 05:52am 17 Dec 2021
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Most consumer equipment with small engines comes from the Loncin Engine Company, no matter what the name on it. Search their website for a similar engine and download the manual for that. The drain on mine is on the base of the filler tube but is unusable without making a mess, so I put it on some blocks and tip it on it's side as noted above. https://www.loncinindustries.com/en/engine/Index.aspx https://www.loncinindustries.com/en/engine/manualList.aspx?catid=8-20-24-316-318 From Loncin "change oil every 6 months or 50 hours" Edited 2021-12-17 16:52 by phil99
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 09:27am 17 Dec 2021
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Given Tony has had his mower 6 weeks, he's onto it early. Good way to set an engine up for a long, trouble free life. Particularly one without an oil filter.
I noted earlier how I got a brand new Briggs branded engine out the box and saw if what CHyneese and then found it stamped right on the box.
I went up to Dads bout a fortnight ago and gave the Chiggs engine a run in. Side paddock had grown a shade and needed a bit of a touch up to keep it looking nice. The Chiggs did pretty well. the flail mower is 5 ft wide so a pretty decent cut. Weak point is definitely the belts. Runs 2 B sections but not enough. Be better with a chain drive and a Diesel engine. Have a twin cyl 30 HP that would be awesome on that.
Now THAT'S a lawn mower Tony!! :0) Not much of a lawn, but anyway....
It did seem pretty economical. did about 1.5 acres through the jungle before it ran out. I'd guess it's about a 4L tank, not small but the machine was tight and doing a LOT of work. Probably should have been bedded in a bit easier as it hasn't done a lot of hours previous but meh, can buy another one for about $350 and all the others we have have lasted for near 10 years for the first one and never missed a beat.
I think these engines are a HUGE improvement over the old Briggs sidevalves.
While I was up there I knocked Dad up a fire trailer that I have been telling him to get one for years. Now at the wettest 12 Months in the area's living memory, he decided there was a rush to get one. All the commercial ones were pretty lame really. Petrol pump, one hose, most you couldn't even till the tank or pump from a river or dam.
I had the diesel and bought a petrol pump setup with the proper 2" twin impeller 130M head pump unit. Grafted that onto the diesel with an electric start I robbed from another engine. I have a petrol Pump and Had a diesel before selling it to a mate and the diesels crap all over the petrols. They are noisy as hell but Dad is deaf as a post and who cares about noise when you have a fire?
Found the frame which was an old camper/ caravan frame in town so got the towie to bring that back and I had taken the IBC and a bunch of fittings ( but of course not enough or the exact right ones and put it all together.
It can do anything, pump to the hose from the IBC or another water source, transfer from one tank to another or fill the IBC from another water source and FAST. saw a lot of commercial units with 3/4 fill hoses. Yeah, you want to be taking that extra 10 Min to fill during a fire don't you??
It's got a 36m, 3/4 hose and a 1" 20M hose with the proper pistil grip nozzle that's the real deal with all the bells and whistles. Wasn't there when I came back but arrived the day after of course so have to fit that up. everything on the pump is ready to go, case of screwing on the fitting.
Dad is bitching he doesn't like it. The reel for the hose on the back has flaked the paint and got rusty. I took the thing up to him about 5 years ago and it laid in the corner of the back shed till I fished it out. Always got to look pretty for Dad.
I doubt and certainly hope it never sees a real bushfire but it's as capable as I could make it. The main purpose will be for fire control when we are burning off or even more likely, when the neighbour burns off and goes inside and the fire gets away and is up the trees and burning in dads place as happened 9 times now and well beyond a joke. Neighbours fire fighting equipment is a rake and a garden sprayer.
Got a fair few trees I want to drop there and dads excuse has been getting rid of them. Lot of rubbish left once you take out the fire wood. Have had to get the RFS in before to supervise but now we can keep the piles manageable and have something to keep them under control.
Given how well the flail mower foes though sticks and branches, I think a lot will be able to be run over with that then just put the stick rake on the tractor and heap up anything that's left and burn that.
That little Diesel with that 1" Hose is going to lay down some good water. Shown the pics to a few people and they all say the water won't last. I said won't be much fire left time it's empty though. Be able to put out the neighbours fires from half way across the block before they get away again.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 10:24pm 17 Dec 2021
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Yes, bushfires and snakes, neither exactly welcome.
I think you have a little bit of work ahead of you to turn that into a first class putting green.Cheers, Tony.
Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458
Posted: 06:20am 18 Dec 2021
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If I had a neighbour who neglected to control their burnoffs even once, I would have a stern talk to them. Twice I would be mightily pissed off. 9 times I would have a very long line of large rocks ready to roll down the hill at him. I live on a mountain with plenty of large granite boulders. I suggest that your father contact the fire brigade or fire controller in his area and get them to talk to the neighbour and possibly confiscate his matches. Neglecting to control fires in Australia should be a criminal offense considering the number of people killed and houses destroyed in big fires. Pete
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 06:36am 18 Dec 2021
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Keeping it under control is mainly for the fires. There is a lot of wild life there, nothing to see a kanga on the back lawn and a bunny seems to have taken up residence in the old chook shed but never seen nor heard Dad mention a snake. Hope that irony thing of speaking here don't show up on that score.
I think I have plenty of work keeping it under control. Spoke to dad the other day and he said did you do the clearing in the back Paddock? I said yes, I showed you and How I pushed back into the scrub with the tractor and then mulched it. He said I thought so but the grass there now is half way up to my knee. I confirmed we were talking about the same place which we were. Amazing for 10 days but then again, barely anything grew there for 5 years before with the drought.
He said the side paddock is the same. Time I get up there after Christmas it will be back to square 1. At least mulching the weeds is making a layer of material over all the rocks!
I will give it another go over and look at the oil in the mower. Might give it an early present as well given the hard break in.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 07:00am 18 Dec 2021
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I agree!
I am having to use all my decorum with the guy but I have made it as clear as I can without upsetting the friendship that it's getting ridiculous and if Dad Loose's anything he won't like the outcome. He's made several burn piles again close to the border and I have said, stay with them and don't let them get away again or we are going to have a BIG problem. On one hand I think he is wary of me, on the other I think he's too set in his irresponsible ways to really change what he does.
The thing is the guy isn't bad, he looked after Dad really well during the lockups bringing him fire wood nearly every day and checking in on him. If I can't get dad for a couple of days I text him and he goes in and hangs up the phone or reboots his phone or whatever and lets me know he's OK. The guy on the other side is a maniac so he is a complete detriment not a help.
Dad got a guy in with a mulcher on a big bob cat and did all round the borders as a fire break from all sides. The guy on the other side hasn't cleared in 20 years so that is a huge risk as well which is why I am keen to keep that side paddock under control. Now there is a good gap, truth be told I wouldn't mind if there was a fire in there because that would remove ALL the problems on that side. Would guarantee the guy isn't and couldn't be insured with the scrub that close and the fact that the house is a DIY ramshackle house that jack built. Be a real shame if that all went up and the guy had to sell up.
I have a few trees to still take down on Smokey the irresponsibles side and dad is already Grading that border to try and keep it Dirt more than anything. Not much else we can do other than thin the trees much as possible to stop a fire jumping. Dad has also been poisoning that strip to slow the re growth.
I am not happy with what the guy does but I don't want to push the friendship too much. Any more will probably burn the bridges and still not modify the behaviour. I just don't know how he can do it so many times and still not wake up. He told Dad that he had no insurance on the house or contents. Dad said straight out, You realise if anything here gets burnt, my insurance company will own everything you have?
He is Tight as a fishes fundamental orifice and has some broad 100Ft gums easily within striking distance of his house and Dads sheds. Might even make it to the house as well if they come down. Prevailing winds would be likely to push them direct on neighbours house. Dad has remarked 100 Times how dangerous having dead trees that close are but all guy does is whine about the cost. Dad says no use waiting, The loppers aren't going to have a 50% off sale and make it cheaper.
Based on trees dad has got down and gets a good price from the guy for helping him with things, we reckon it's minimum $8K job. Would be a bargain compared to if one came down and touched anything.
Godoh Guru Joined: 26/09/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 458
Posted: 09:24pm 18 Dec 2021
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Hi Davo, maybe you or your dad need to have a chat with the local bushfire brigade. They often need training exercises, so next time that he lights up your dad could phone them and get them to come out and make sure his fires stay where they are supposed to. As far as dead trees go, he could always get himself a winch and cut the trees himself. If he puts a rope up as high as he can, ( a slingshot and string helps there) he could put tension on the trees to guide them to where he wants them to fall. Sounds like he is stuck in a rut as far as thinking he needs to clean up and burn all the time. A chipper would be much better, but then he would probably complain about the cost too. Try the local brigade and get them onside, may cost a few beers but would be a lot less work for your dad and less worry about the fire getting out of hand Good luck Pete
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 12:02pm 19 Dec 2021
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I saw one of those Mowers in Bunnings today Tony. Had a look and got a few looks putting the thing on one side then the other and standing it right up and I could not see any drain plug either.
Ir like the old Briggs with the one piece bore and crank case and the cover on the bottom. Looks like bit of a sump in the casting maybe to trap some last remaining oil round the bearing but no plug I could see.
Must be a turn it over and drain it out the some way you put it in job.
Given its a bar blade and a large area of the bottom of the engine cover is exposed above it, does look a bit vulnerable to stones flying up and cracking or holing it.
When I had a lawn mowing run Many years ago I snapped a few Crankshafts when hitting stumps from small trees hidden in long grass. Used to break right where the bottom of the hole was tapped in the centre to hold the blade on. Was most upset with one engine which was not a month old and I'd walked the yard looking for things like that.
Guy at the mower shop claimed it on warranty for me as there had been a few snapped but on the flywheel side so he put it down as the same thing and Briggs sent another one with a full gasket kit. Was lucky there and reassembled it and had the thing for many years.
That was an IC ( industrial Commercial) version engine with the steel bore liner where the others then were just running in the aluminium case. That one definitely had a drain Plug. One under the filler extension and one on the bottom of the casing.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 12:35pm 19 Dec 2021
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That's a good idea Pete. We had them out September last year to supervise a Burn from a previous cleanup. Dad got a guy in with a dozer to push a lot of the crap out about 23 years previous. Instead of doing what Dad asked and make small piles, he bushed it all up into one big one with a stack of dirt. There were whole trees in it and was Impossible to pick apart with Dads tractor.
I rang them up and a nice young girl came out..... in a school bus where she had just finished delivering the kids. she filled out some paper work she said she needed to get approved and said she would get back to us... which she did about 45 Min later saying it was good.
Few weeks later on a Saturday morning, 2 Crews came out and lit it up about 9am. The sat round and watched and Dad kept pushing it up with the tractor till about 1 Pm and then they left. It all burned much quicker than we thought and the buld even the trunks was soon gone. Few stumps was all that was left and we kept pushing it all around for about 3 days and added some more but that was it. No dramas at all.
Dad offered them beers which they very much refused to have then or take with them. Were thankful of some softdrink but wouldn't have lunch as they brought that with them. Dad gave them a couple hundred bucks and got a receipt so it was all legit on their part. Dad said to them go buy some beers or steaks or whatever and enjoy yourselves but it had to be officially entered as a donation. They sure did things by the book. Nice people though and were good to Dad.
I'll ring them when I go back up and explain the situation and see if they can just drop in as part of " Visiting all the properties in the area" or some such thing. Trouble is, he has a lot of little piles and the growth is so thing down there they would never get a truck in.... his side anyhow, no problem our side now.
I'll speak to them about looking at the other morons side and see if there is some sort of clean-up order or whatever they can put on that thug while they are there.
Nope, these are too big and too close to everything. Only way to get these down is with a crane. And again, probably from Dads side as can't put anything big in there. They are close to the border and dad had a reenforced driveway put in for 36 Ton so would be OK to set up on. Other guys place is so soft I wouldn't put a decent 4WD in there that was 3.6 Ton.
He's on a disability pension and is on his own. He has way too much time on his hands and I thought I did. some periods for weeks at a time, all he does is cut down these little trees, chop them up then put them in his plastic yard cart and pull them back to the shed with the rideon mower. Must have a 4 car shed full of crappy wood by now. Probably need it for one winter with the crap he uses.
I can't see him buying anything. His equipment for the place is an OLD ride on that Dad has put more weld on to hold it together than there remains original metal, a crappy plastic yard kart, the pressure sprayer, rake and that is about it. I got way more than that and I'm on an acre with 2 trees! I built myself a Yard Kart out of an IBC frame. I made an axle for, welded a couple of old hubs onto, put a draw bar on it and bingo. Leave his thing for dead but he could have done exactly the same. Dad would have given him the hubs and wheels and all he'd need would be the cage and a bit of steel. Oh, and dads welder because he has bugger all tools.
Yes, this is an excellent suggestion thank you and one I will put into practice.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 08:09pm 19 Dec 2021
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Its all very strange. The paranoia in me senses planned obsolescence, designed to wear out and die after only a very few years.
I have never broken a crank, but have sheared off several flywheel keys. If you hit a solid object, the crank stops dead, and the flywheel tries to keep going and shears off its locating key. The flywheel sits on a tapered shaft secured by a giant nut. The flywheel can twist through a very large angle and still seem very solidly attached to the crank.
Once the flywheel twists around a bit on the end of the crank, without the key to locate it, that hugely shifts the ignition timing. And it will never start ever again, until the flywheel is properly relocated with a new key.
You can pull that bloody string until doomsday, and it won't start. Unless you know about the sheared keyway issue, and what to look for, its not at all obvious unless you know. Edited 2021-12-20 06:20 by WarpspeedCheers, Tony.
phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135
Posted: 09:55pm 19 Dec 2021
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That key is often a soft alloy to deliberately shear, but it's not an obsolescence conspiracy. If the key doesn't shear the crank twists or breaks. At the local fire-brigade we had a portable pump that sucked up a stone from a tank, bringing it to an instant stop. The key at the impeller end was steel and chewed a chunk out of the crank while the soft key at the flywheel end did shear, the crank still twisted slightly. A local engineering firm was able to straighten it and repair the impeller end.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 10:03pm 19 Dec 2021
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Yes, quite right. The Briggs I have uses a 4mm x 4mm aluminium key.Cheers, Tony.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:33pm 19 Dec 2021
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I hate to say but that was EXACTLY the impression I got. seemed pretty cheap built although I thought the price was far from cheap. The side plate of the engine at the bottom above the blade looked to be pressed given how shiny the metal was.
One thing that takes a lot of these later engines out is the fact the carb jetting is non adjustable. Used to be they had a screw so as the motor/ carb got a bit of wear, you could richen up the mixture and get it starting/ running right. Then the polloution regs came in mainly for OS so they put a cap over the screw. That didn't stop the shops and people in the know so then they took that out. next people drilled the orifice and there were mixture screw kits you put in. Not they make them so you touch them you destroy them basically. Dads John Deere rideon had that but the Idle jet blocked and couldn't be cleared. I bought a new Chyneese carb from fleabay and had the Mixture screw. Winner.
If it gets a few years and hard to start, Might have to resort to the spray or throwing a thimble full of fuel into the intake. could well be the only thing wrong is the mixture. Not so bad if it has a choke but not all have an effective one. some still have a hole in the butterfly to stop people flooding them.
People knock Chinese equipment but between my father, my mate and myself, we must have 30 pieces between us and the only ones to fail are my mates because his son flogs them and never checks the oil. Other than that they stand up well. I really think it's all to the price/ profit point they build anything to. You can get real crap or you can get real impressive.
Most of the no name stuff I have seen is pretty good. Much of the brand name can be crap because they push it being built to the cheapest price. I didn't like the fact that mower had a pressed steel deck. They have never been a feature of longevity. I didn't notice if the thing had a wash port but if not It wouldn't be hard to drill a hole and put one in.
The trouble with the steel decks is the wet grass shreds and compacts under there then sits wet for a week or whatever rusting the deck out. Least you can weld steel unlike aluminium.
I have a nice rotary hoe up the back, American Snapper brand that is built well and has a briggs motor that a guy rebuilt that does run nice. Worked fine then someone whom couldn't leave well enough alone, not admitting anything, decided it would be nice for the electric start to work. Hooked that up and it sheered the Key and pushed the timing out as you say.
Thing was, it ran but was constantly blowing a jet blue flame out the exhaust which glowed like a lightbulb after about 2 Min. Never seen that before but figured what it had to be. Pulled the flywheel and sure enough. I was surprised it ran at all how far it had turned as you could see where the key in the flywheel was and where it had been on the crank.
Pulled it off, lapped the thing, put in a new key and thought it was all good. The lapping and the flywheel angle mating with the crank is what actually connects them, the key is more for alignment. I thought I lapped the thing real well and tapped it on plenty tight then did it up but the first time I hit the starter, it sheared again.
This time it's jammed on really well and I haven't been able to get it off. Only has 1/4" holes for the puller and I broke the mild steel bolts so have been waiting to get some Hi tensile ones. When I do it next time I'll take the bloody starter off all together! I think it must just put too much impact on the flywheel and chances are it stops on compression anyway. Thing was never a problem to start with the cord and it's only an 8 Hp so not much to pull over. Also run fine many times I used it till I had the bright idea of electric starting the thing.
Yeah, mostly they move a lot and they are too far out to run at all. The old briggs engines that ran the crank in the casing with no bearings used to wear so much the crank had enough play in it to either make the points too far open so as to throw the thing out enough not to start or they didn't open at all with the same result. If you could spin them fast enough the crank would more self centre but of course the problem only got worse.
Yeah one I came across couple of years back was mates son for some reason pulled some bits off the engine on his man lift. Thing ran poorly for a bit then not at all. I went over and they were playing with the carb., I checked and cleaned it but was not convinced it was the problem. Sure enough. Son then mentioned about pulling the thing apart. I asked if he took the coill off and if so what he gapped it to when he put it back on? Yes, took it off and put it back on at a Couple of MM.
Welllllll Thurs 'ya problem!! Took the blower cover off, Picked up some bit of rubbish paper, folded it to use it as a spacer, set the thing about as close as it would clear with a smidgeon for expansion, hit the button and off she went. Put it back together and all good. Mate was not pleased at how much time they wasted but real happy I fixed it as he said wasn't something he'd have thought of.
Only 3 things to make them run and this had 2 of them. They had checked the spark and it was firing intermittently so bit of a trap for the new and inexperienced players in the game.
Did you manage to get the thing turned over and the oil changed Tony?
I'm looking to get a push mower to do the garden path and round the side of the house. Was slashing that but the rain is making it too thick too quick. The tractor is really too big for the back path. I already knocked a big branch off one of the Mrs shurbs she was not happy about ( thinking the wind storm the night before did it) but only a matter of time before I take out one of the veranda supports. You only have to touch something with it and stuff gets broken.
I was looking for a used Honda but yesterday while in bunnings I saw the electric mowers. I'll look into them more but may be a bit over priced and under powered for what I want. Duration shouldn't be a problem. 10 min would do it but I am wary of power output.
I haven't had a petrol mower in as long as I can remember that wasn't hotted up for more power.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 12:00am 20 Dec 2021
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Doing other things on my list right now. Due for another mow between Christmas and New Year, will get back to it then.Cheers, Tony.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 12:14am 20 Dec 2021
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Depending how hard it is to get the oil out and how well it drains, Might also be worth a flush with some diesel or petrol to get any fine metal out. Probably make a difference instead of it circulating through the new oil like cutting compound.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 12:29am 20 Dec 2021
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I have been thinking pretty much the same thing. If its going to be a real pain, I might pull it to bits and FIT a magnetic drain plug.
When I was touring Bunnings, looking at lawn mowers, I was surprised at how many battery mowers there are now. I wonder how long those last ? I bet a new battery costs almost as much as a new mower.
Not good, but it could be an excellent future source of really grunty dc motors. Its likely they are high rpm but with a built in gear reduction, still might be useful for quite a few future projects, things that are much more difficult to do with high voltage treadmill motors for example.Cheers, Tony.
phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135
Posted: 02:06am 20 Dec 2021
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Long long ago had a Sunbeam electric mower (240VAC). 1kW motor spinning at 20k RPM. Toothed belts to twin rotors, 2:1 reduction. It screamed turning the grass to powder, no need for a catcher!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 02:07am 20 Dec 2021
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I bought a battery mower probably over 10 Years ago now. It was about 16" I think and bought it for exactly the reason you say, The motor. It was 24V and the battery had packed it in which wasn't a hard fix at all. Was just a couple of 12V 12ah SLA.
I had a couple of 10 Ah a mate gave me and put them on a gave the thing a try. Worked but very easy to stall which required a re set and too small for my lawn. Sad to tear it apart but that's why I did buy it. just didn't expect it to be in such good Nick.
I really wanted the motor for my Modified Chev oil pump I used to collect Veg oil. I was running the 24V scooter motors on it but while they had amazing grunt, the RPM was a bit low. This mower motor was 750W I think and was quite fast, bout 1000Rpm over the scooter motors if I remember. Really got that Pump howling and did over 100L a min oil flow which was great.
I had it a while then a mate when we were out collecting accidentality dropped the whole assembly and as fate does, thing landed on the motor casing and it and broke the magnets inside. I pulled them out and tried to glue them back in but wasn't successful. Back to the scooter motors which had got cheaper and more powerful but still not as fast as the Mower motor. I could have got a bigger one and geared it with chain or belts but I preferred the simplicity of just a couple of Lovejoy's on the pump and motor.
Been running the modified oil pumps like that a long time now and still haven't come up with anything better. I do use 1" Ports I weld directly into the housing which sped up the flow and lowered the resistance so flat out I can get 80L an hour with the 2700 rpm or whatever they are scooter motors but mainly I run them on 12V as they are less noisy and still do about 50L a min.
I'd pretty much guarantee all these new motors are going to be 3 Phase DC now Tony. They use them even on car blower motors and have some time now. I think it makes speed control easier/ Cheaper.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 02:20am 20 Dec 2021
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I think that's what the neighbours had when I was a kid. I always thought it looked like a floor Polisher. Who remembers those??
And I remember the noise, it did scream. I always thought it was dangerous if you ran over the lead and cut it. Bet that happened more than once. For whatever reason it wore out and the neighbour bought a 125 2 stroke Victa. Given I now know when the 160s came out, that must have been further back than I care to mention.
I know his mrs hated the " Noise" and the smell but my grandparents who I lived with and I never thought it was any louder, just different and sounded like everyone else's mower.
MANY years later the old fella now in his 90's had trouble starting it. Was way down on compression from about 20 years of use so I rebuilt it for him. Still looked like near new and in amazing condition for something it's age.
I still miss waking up to the sound of 2 stroke Victas on the weekend. Was something I loved as a kid and a stable of life growing up. Every one would be home from work Sat or Sunday mornings and get into the lawns first thing. Grew up in a very modest but very house proud neighbourhood where everyone knew each other and were a real community.
Now everyone round here does the mowing later in the day or evening and it's all screaming Single Cylinder 4 strokes..... except for mine which is either a twin Cyl petrol water cooled from a small car or a 3 Cyl Diesel. :0)
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