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Forum Index : Solar : Silicon Chip poor advice on off grid.
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| George65 Guru  Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
I hear you mate. Back about 10 years ago I got involved in the Veg fuels thing. The amount of flack I got and pure spiteful comments and hate because I dared to say I was in it for the money not the environment was something I won't forget... or probably get over the chip on my shoulder. It took less than 3 years for all these green do gooders, especially the most vocal save the planet types to have completely disappeared off the scene. The majority of them were pathetic little whingeing yuppies whom couldn't stand getting their hands dirty but wanted to push a cause to seem trendy at cocktail parties. There were a few other guys in it like me to save money and they were/ are the ONLY Ones I know still doing it. All the rest of the hypocrites have gone back to the devils fossil fuel in their uneconomical status symbols and found something else to go on about. The thing I couldn't get through to these people that the reasons I was using ( and still am using) veg fuels is irrelevant. the fact I'm doing it satisfies their objectives as well as mine so what on earth was the problem? Once again, because they could not stand that I did not subscribe to their false religion. I'm all for saving the planet, clean air and water and all those same things. What I cannot tolerate is BS and hypocrisy. I'm on a 7 day ban from earlier today on another forum because I posted figures and facts that show that running a tesla and fueling it with electricity is actually and verify-ably ( from Tesla OWN figures) more expensive than running an IC car. Apparently I am " Causing Trouble" by upsetting someone that has vested interested in EV's and they throw a hissy fit every time someone points something out not favorable to the agenda they want to push or shoots holes in the storys and spindoctoring they like to push. I'll have a think if I want to go back there again or ask them to remove my account with all my posts or issue a takedown order on them. Already a very respected and knowledgeable member there I don't have any alliance with has questioned my suspension which surprised me. If the green motivation and associated technology's/ practices etc is so good, why are the people that champion the cause ALWAYS stretching the truth and outright lying about it? If there are [problems , which is plainly obvious, why not discuss them and get the think tank working on how to improve things and find the solution's these people say they want? Not much use launching a product, lying about it and then when people point out whats wrong covering your ears and sooking you are being Bullied or the other person is a mongeral or whatever. Your company will go down the tubes because people will see it and you for what it is even if a few people will write glowing testimonials and think you are great. That's the way I run my business and maybe that's the problem with my outlook. I sit every client down at the end of our transaction, look them in the eye and say OK, what did I do wrong? What didn't you like through our dealings and what Could I do better? Don't tell me nothing because that would infer everything was perfect and we know that's not right. Please tell me how I can improve. And I ask this of each and every client and have done for as long as I can remember. Maybe that's why I have run things purely on unsolicited referral for some years now. Pats on the back are great, love them, BUT to me it's knowing where I'm going wrong that's important so I can fix it. Unimaginable to me to turn around to any criticism and say to the person with verifiable facts and data to say no, you're wrong and a mongeral and don't know what your talking about and a bully because I'm a little cupcake and you are upsetting me. And that's exactly what you get from a lot of people wanting to push the green cause which is sad because they don't realise the damage they are doing to the thing they hold so dear. |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I was not judging you George, just was not sure if you knew who you were talking to. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
Thought nothing of it mate, All good and I certainly don't mind a heads up now and then!  |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Its interesting that Trev has fully published his running costs and installation costs for his hilux, so much that one of my objects to follow his ideas on my own hilux as soon as im settled in the new place Powerwalls and other grid connectors have addition issues with compliance etc that off gridders either dont have to comply with or ignore totally (what are they going to do, cut off the sun if they dont pay lol) What you have to remember is the powerwall is only in its infancy, altho I will admit it is horribly overpriced for its capacity, other brands can be found at less than half the price, and some of these are going for certification in Oz, and if you have the knowhow to roll your own setup, you cut costs considerably over new/supplied systems Talk of $75g for a offgrid sysem are a joke, by someone who obviously has no idea what they are doing or even how to spec up, I helped install a motels solar system and that was just over 50g, for a system that supplied a motel with 10 units and the managers residence, that was more than 5 years ago, and I'd bet it could be done cheaper and better now |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
Is this for electric or veg or? Be interested to see more. |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Electric.... Boat https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9701&PN=1 EV7 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5991&PN=1 EV6 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2790&PN=2 EV5 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1127&PN=4 EV4 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=902&PN=4 EV3 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=691&PN=4 EV2 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=472&PN=4 EV1 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=384&PN=5 |
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| bristan8 Newbie  Joined: 13/11/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 16 |
I read the letter and reply in silicon chip as I have been subscribing for 12 years or so. I did think it was exaggerated however they do tend to over engineer things and their projects usually have lots of bells and whistles. I have read every magazine in that time and I do not think they are against renewables per se. They have had quite a few projects featuring solar panels and controllers. They also described a wind turbine using a fisher and Paykel wm motor. Leo Simpson has been presenting a logical case as to why windmills and solar are not suitable for a whole country . I don't think it is feasible to present the method as used by DIY back shedders as a model for the community as a whole. High rise apartments and city infrastructure has all to be supplied. Leo Simpson has been advocating nuclear power as an alternative and there have been articles on small suburban nuclear plants as well. I don't think he has been pushing coal at all. There were a few readers in the letters sections with objections similar to "Gizmo's " however there were many more in agreement with Leo and the articles continue. The lefties hate it when arguments against their religion are presented logically by intelligent and capable people. They like to present any one against their cause as uneducated rednecks. They frequently use name calling and other methods to denigrate the opposition instead of arguing logically. It is only by sensible discussion that these things can be worked out. Unfortunately it seems in the present day conservatives have been caught napping and have been somewhat outperformed by leftwing propaganda. It should not be a political matter at all as it is too important to be treated as such. Incidentally they give the back shed a good rap in the magazine. |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I have not read the article, however, what do know is that for under $40,000 you can pay to have an off-grid solar system installed. This will power a modest home with the occasional need to run a backup generator if the weather is not suitable. If you are more than a few hundred meters from the power line it would cost more to have the grid installed. There have been several reports on TV about farmers putting off-grid systems after a bushfire destroyed power lines to their properties. They did this because it was going to take 6 months or more to repair the power lines. After installing the solar they were very pleased with the result, something they would never have considered viable previously until forced into a corner and having to find a solution. To pay to have an isolated off-grid system installed in suburbia does make sense financially ATM. Battery systems such as the Tesla Powerwall may not stack up financially either but products like these are in their early days. As these products mature we will see them supplementing baseload power when the sun is not shining which at present pays a premium per KWH if it can be switched on quickly. These products are will become much more mainstream and prices will come down as has the very popular Grid-Tie Solar. I saw a TV programme a few years with Dick Smith promoting Nuclear Power and pointing out how the negatives are blown way out of preportion. I don't remember if it was mentioned on that programme but what most people don't know is how much radioactive emissions are produced by coal fired power stations. No it is not a typo, read here for more information. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
Couldn't agree more with that! What I couldn't DISAGREE with any stronger is the suggestion of anything Nuke. That whole thing just beggars me belief how anyone can be fore it especially those concerned about the environment. Just last night I was watching some Doco's on YT about the nuke waste problem. It's the most dangerous, poisonous stuff known and it's piling up and there is NO solution of what to do with it. Lots of hearsay been going on for decades about doing this or that with it but none of it has been put into practice to solve the problem. And that's just the waste side when everything goes well. I watched a Doco on the Marshall Islands where the US did tests n the 50's and 60's. They have a waste dump known as the dome. That's were all the debris and fallout they gathered up went including chunks of raw plutonium where a bomb failed to go off. They threw it all into a crater on a sand island and put a concrete lid on it and went away. It's leaching radioactivity into the surrounding are on a frightening scale and if the concrete dome gives out, the Pacific ocean will turn into a deadly contaminated poison. When it goes tits up..... As they say, they can pinpoint the time it happened but it's never over. There is always the spin doctoring of " but the new reactors are safe and that can't happen'. Yep, that's exactly what they said with each and every generation of reactor that did blow it's top or just have one of the dozens of minor accidents that are always buried from the public. The LAST thing we should be looking at for power is Nuke until the waste problem is cured for a start. |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
I thought this was well known by now, I first saw reports of coal fired stations putting out high levels of radioactive particles (purely from memory, it was mostly from thorium, with some uranium as well, which is basically present in all coal) Back when Lucas Heights was going for its first rebuild, there were media stories then about how it had to comply with all these restrictions, yet they had issues because of the fallout from the Newcastle coal plants, the detectors were getting false high readings from the coal emissions on certain days (even tho they are several hundred miles away) and it was causing operating issues for the L.H plant because it put it in breach of its operating conditions (the detectors couldnt tell where the radiation was coming from, just it was there) |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
What is this BS about 'lefties' being the only ones that use solar etc, I know many rightwing people are running many solar installations throughout NSW and QLD- jeez my stepfather is an old farmboy, further right than Pauline Hanson, yet has embraced solar eagerly. It is the current conservative federal government that is using scare tactics and outright lies (remember the S.A blackouts- 'oh noes its the nasty renewables that are the reason' was Abbotts first response, and stuck with it, even when both the power companies and the state governments said otherwise) Who slashed the federal solar rebates so the payoff period is often in excess of 30 years or more?, who just again cut the installation rebate further? Who was wined and dined by Gautam Adani and has paved the road for a coal mine that noone wants? /rant off |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
The waste problem IS solved engineeringwise, its just the US political fears that stopped it (mostly) You may have heard of the French reprocessing plant that was in operation (there were many ships sailing past Oz and protests and stuff- back in the eighties if I remember correctly Then the US put political pressure on the French and they closed it Its basically called a breeder reactor- and it converts 'waste' fuel rods into fresh and reusable ones- each run through a conventional reactor only uses about 5% of the available fuel until it becomes too 'contaminated' to use further in a conventional reactor The breeder reactor basically refreshes it so it can be used again, the only issue was that one of the byproducts is plutonium, and NOBODY but the US was going to have plutonium by gawd So political pressure was brought to bear, and that was the end of that Also look up thorium reactors and the Canadians have a forced injection one as well that is naturally stable- it has to be forced into its power mode, any control failure means it reverts back to its idle state |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Biggest problem we have is science is ignored in favour of the highly funded lobby groups. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| ryanm Senior Member  Joined: 25/09/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 202 |
Interestingly enough the fuel rods are only a portion of the nuclear waste that comes out of the plant. A lot of it is made up of everyday items. Every bit of protective clothing, office chairs, mops and buckets, pair of gloves etc that's ever been used in the facility. |
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| M Del Senior Member Joined: 09/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 155 |
I read my post again, crap  , it was supposed to read as RENEW magazine has gone off the rails but might be read as my thoughts  .Home built stuff is the way to go, my next acvtivity is a trailer based system with home built or second hand gear. Still hunting for used panels etc. Mark |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
I'm happy with what I'm getting out of my DIY system that's for sure. Killing my power bill so money very well spent... or should I say INVESTED because I'm certainly getting a good return on the time and money I have spent on it. Anything you can buy and be saving money within 6 months is a real good investment in my book. Bugger these new systems that have 3-7 year payoffs. Could you elaborate on your trailer Idea? Is this to get around roof mounting or some local regulations? It would not seem to allow for a very big system though. Even a trailer 4M long by 4 wide will only be enough for about 2KW. I like trailers. Mate of mine had a shipping container at the back of his business premises on his substantial land. Some whingy neighbour complained and the council issued an order to remove it. Made phone call to wife who works at council when mate told me then took mate out the back and fixed the problem. Got some old wheel hubs, got guy in fruit shop next door to lift container and welded on hubs and a bit of tube. Thing only was 4" off the ground and we packed it level anyway. Would roll on the wheels though. Now it's a trailer and Council can't do Squat. :0) I'm thinking of enlarging my back Verandah. I'd like to look at making part of the roof out of panels. Figure all I have to do is screw them together with a bit of silicone to seal them and I'm there. Would be about 50% More exy than using colourbond (used panels) but of course Colourbond does not save you money on the power bill. I bought another 4Kw setup this morning. Really want another 5 KW or more but this was too cheap to pass up. I think I should stop talking about used stuff because too many people are getting onto it and it's getting harder and more expensive to get. Think I'll go to 15Kw all up then I'll never have to worry how much power or hot water Daughter uses. Have a 42 Degree day and she decides to do the washing she needs for tomorrow at 10 Pm and then of course needs to use the dryer. Uggghhh! Some of the prices people are asking and others are paying for 2nd hand stuff is getting laughable. I'm seeing used panels around 190W being offered for the same or very near what you can buy new 270W panels for. |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I wonder how many of the used panels being sold are not installed. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
I don't see where that was said nor implied. I'm a long way from a leftie and I have panels and run my vehicle on " renewable Fuel" if that's the way you want to put it. I just call it veg oil and I do it to save a buck. A LOT of bucks actually. I don't think it's the actions that are the issue, it's the attitude. I have panels and run my car on about 99% Co2 neutral renewable fuel but I'm not so brainwashed to think either of them is a save the world soloution or make a song and dance everyone should do it because I am realistic and honest about the advantages and limitations. Some just need a religion to follow and feel like supporting it gives them social approval and inclusion. Like coal. ATM everyone wants to make out its the devils fuel. Got to be done away with soon as possible. Most lefties ( and others) against it wouldn't have the first freaking clue about it, what the emissions are or anything else. they see it on the left wing news, read about it on the net and they just on the bandwagon without having a clue. They just want to be another one of the sheeple. the irony is, You will find a lot of these people are unit dwellers with no space to do ANYTHING towards their own self sufficiency and think that installing LED light bulbs make a difference to the world. They bitch about the source of the power but still want it to run all their modern conveniences which they would freak about if you asked them to give up to lessen the emissions they whine about. You don't want coal? Great. Well look at the power you used for the last year and take away the percentage coal provided and you can live on the renewable amount plus whatever you can do yourself. Oh, and saw you protesting that new airport they want to build so seeing you are so against it, well put you on the data base and make sure you NEVER fly in or out of it for the rest of your days to help you in the support of your convictions.... in case you forget sometime in the future. :0) At the same time they whinge about coal, these people would also be pushing for electric cars to do away with all the IC cars and again want that done in a week. No freaking idea how much power an electric car consumes, what sort of added load that would put on the grid or the reality is that the majority of power in this country and most others still comes from coal, gas or nuke. Some of the Nordic countries have 100% Hydro but very few. these people will crap on about " No emissions from the tail pipe" Ignoring the fact the " Head pipe" 300KW away is 10M round. By all means lets find different and better ways to do things but lets do it sensibly and without some ridiculous agenda. Lets to it in a way that allows the luxuries we have now and stays within the technology, limitations and cost restrictions we have to work to so it does not end up a complete debacle..... like it's already turned into. Of course the reality of the golden rule in this day and age is Never let fact and intelligence get in the way of a good rabble rousing cause to champion no matter how ill informed you are.  |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
What do you mean? People buy them with intentions and don't get round to putting them up? |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I picked up 8 190W panels off ebay a few years ago, for about $500 I think. But it took a while to find them. I had been looking for a few weeks on ebay, Gumtree, etc, lots on offer but over priced. The ones I eventually found were from an electrician who upgraded an existing grid connect solar installation. His customer had 1.5kW installed, wanted to upgrade to a 3kW system. All the original panels were taken down and new panels put up. The customer had no need for the old panels, so the electrician took then and sold them on ebay. At only 2 years old, they are in as new condition. It was a 2 hour drive to his place, but still worth it So keep looking M Del, it might take a few weeks, but good deals do come up. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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