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Forum Index : Solar : Solar Farm Practicallity
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| domwild Guru  Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
norcold, I realize your thread is about a solar farm but I am interested in the economics of any system, large or small. Your three kW system cost $52,000 many years back, subsidised by the gov. to the tune of 50%, so I believe you mean to say it cost you net $26,000. As it returns you $1,800/year at power retail prices we are looking at 14 years payback not considering interest. I am looking at your system and your figures. A 3kW system these days is much cheaper if one believes the ads. The feed-in tariff in Perth is still 40 cents but may be reduced in the future and may only apply to old systems anyway. Am still looking for figures of net cost vs. returns. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| anteror Senior Member  Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
I think you(and all of us) are just like in the situation, like our Nokia phone company was years back here in Finland.. They had this very good; "Connecting people" and they sold phones as you know NOW there is NEW order for..; Connecting people..to pure energy. It has has JUST started and there is so many opportunities to that ! Connecting people, with PURE energy ! It has potential to grow.. and IT WILL  grow, much bigger
than any other business in this world and it will be bigger, than everything else we have never seen in the world economy. Need for energy and pure. Also need for EV cars. THE BIG ! SHIP.. in all this has just now left the port and heading 
WE all are the pilots and captains, BUT the the ultimate goal is, however, VERY clear ! Connecting people, to pure energy ! Energy need and population growing so fast and standard of living in every place of this planet. THAT is THE  question ?
Antero |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
No it doesn`t return me $1800/ year, simply because I only use 5.2Kwhr/day average (remember it shuts down charging by lunch) so 5.2Kwhr x 365 X 22 cents = $417.56. It also isn`t 3Kw, the 3Kw comes from Antero`s 11 X 250 watt cells nor is it my thread it`s Bob`s. Also the retail price over here is 26-28cents/Kwhr I believe. Off-grid systems when you consider battery replacement every 10 years are not financially viable until you consider it was to cost me $72,000 to have the grid extended to my shouse. Also your using your retail rate(Perth) with NQ output. Output in this area from 1000 watts of panels average yearly out to 8Kw/day. Output in your area(Page 4 of Consumer Guide CEC) is 4.4Kwhr/day. Will actually be better then that with the newer mono cells, thus to really get accurate figures for your area you would need to monitor a mono system for a few years. My off-grid system is 8 years old and has 18 x 130 watt Poly cells the output figures I have quoted are for a mono 2600watt grid-tied system 2 years old a neighbour has some 5ks away and is conx to his computer, for saving data. Raymond, If the above sounds a little harsh I do not mean it to be so. I just wish to ensure the record is straight and we are not comparing apples to cheese.  We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
I think of the years, all too few . . .... gone too fast. And accept the stark fact . . . that nothing can last. So open your eyes, people ... . .. . . . . open and see. Not a cranky old man .. This is copied from Norcold message to me. The age is just!!, stage of mind, that is my attitude ! Hope is the best medicine. I will never stop hoping and acting ! SO REALLY.. open your eyes and see  with your inner essence.
See ? what your hearth will eat, after understanding.. Antero |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
We are limited by to many factors in life to allow our creativity and positive attitude to flourish. Life isn't long enough to do all we would like. When we get near the end of life we have the immediate time to do what we want ,but not the money to do as we would wish. Then if we succeed in part or whole we haven't the time left to enjoy the fruits of our labor. We also work and achieve, only to find that after our passing it is torn down and sold for scrap or just because they do not understand the concept. Government regulators stand in the way of projects that could have benefit in the greater community, either through stupidity or following existing protocol or by pressure from their management teams so called pubic serpents, or maybe the commercial masters that the government sells infrastructure to with profit guarantee contracts. When I open my eyes and see I see a lot of things I do not like from a moral, commercial or practical point of view. Age has nothing to do with creativity, but it is a problem for the continuity of the results of creativity. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
SA fellows, any of you in the Mt Remarkable Shire. They`ve just had a study of the viability of solar farms in their area. From scant figures I have from the study, they enjoy good sunshine and have HV lines passing through suitable land. They commissioned the study from a grant for such. The study also was to give recommendations as to how to attract investors to develop solar farms. Would be a top study to get hold of. Nyngan (NSW) are currently building a 102Mw solar farm, that`ll make it the largest solar farm in OZ. All encouraging stuff. Off-Topic news, someone flogged the 10m high mango from Bowen, suspect this`ll be a publicity stunt. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
My Country Antero, Above poem sums up the OZ I know, but it is contrary to reality. We are one of the most centralised countries, most live in our cities, our Dundee character is a dying bred to become just a myth. But it doesn`t stop us chucking a prawn on the barbi and washing it down with a beer. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
Say me if I am wrong, but all this writing etc begins to sound like a testament, will.. I do not wonder this at all, in this.. time ! To Norcold; My country is also VERY centralised in economy and in energy also. Centralised, you hit the VERY key WORD ! in all this. BUT now we have a chance to fight back, with NO centralised forces, with solar and wind power, when the prices of these are coming down..! Have noticed this page; http://www.backwoodshome.com/energy.html Here in Finland we had Council, from best proffesors which was brought together from our government, in order to get our economy to rise..: Statement WAS exactly THE same that I have wrote to several forums here in Finland and to many other forums to many coyntries etc Message was VERY clear !!; decentralized energy production would create jobs and tax incomes to keep local wellbeing and small busines alive etc (I will no longer keep my candle under.. I say my IQ was in the test second best after 1000 people year 1974.) BUT in this matter you do have to be any rocket scientist to understand where we are WE are going, if there is no CHANGE in this matter ? You can read the CHANGE here, daily, which is currently the best website, TO see the change in our time  ;
http://cleantechnica.com/ Words and gestures, that we have in our time with MANY ways.. This is the ONLY time to say and ACT in our time. Here and NOW ! THE result ?, if we do not act, we know EXACTLY. Antero |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
Off topic.. My wife and I have really studied all about the herbs and have bought all the books, old ones too. There is really SO much knowledge about all this. New recent up to date studies for example.. about cold-pressed black currant berries and and in particular from the ingredients in their seeds that have been found from them.., they cannot been find in no other berry etc Our university here in Finland, in the city Turku have made a lot of studies about that and found, more and more.. THE very.. and fundamental ingredient to many.. Also this from the world; Grape seeds extract.. THE standard of living ? Grow your own food and pick mushrooms. Fish. Make your own PURE energy, that you really can nowadays. PUT NO money to centralised systems ! You will sleep better and better..
Eat Barramundi with stone mushrooms, from Finland(Boletus Edulis) sauce. ( in figuratively way, if you have read this forum with my and Norcold writings  )
So much to learn.. and SO little time ? OUR inner essence in humanity sence, is feeling so bad.. You all know, how to heal it ! SEE really !, what your heart would eat
Antero |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
The future will be just like in the past.. "Medicine man" knew all that have been learned This internet will equalize opportunities, but only to those that understand what this centralised system will do to uss. BUT ONLY WITH THE..attitude; "state is me" we can change that, but ? Politicians and those in power, they are elected just for few years..? System ? I myself have chosen a different path, to walkabout. I have made a PURE energy system to myself and wrote about that and my thoughts. Nobody else will make the change, than WE ourselves ! OR ??, do you think our politicians and those in power, would make it
I know.. this is just so
But, perhaps I leave some.. "footprint" in this bit world, what I keep hoping.. would change ALL this ! Antero |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Titbit for this weekend. Apparently, solar panels can "irradiate" birds flying over them. How do you like your duck, rare, medium or well irradiated?  We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Would that happen if they fly over water also? Ducks on swimming pools are not popular and you can get a product called Duck Off to get rid of them. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Irradiated with what? IR, Xrays, UV, EMP, visible light, coherent light? Not that I'm overly worried, I never did go much on duck, eggs or flesh. I remember as a young fella in Melbourne, we used to take the sheilas to the lake in town at night to see the "luminous ducks" Never did see one, but did a lot of snogging. Maybe the above is why they were luminous? ???David M. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Yeah my tongues firmly in my cheek. Whilst trawling through the net came up with the below and there are plenty others. Mainly it applies to thermal solar but it is being aborted and made to appear solar in general. Solar Kills The crazy world we live in. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
that's right up there with "gluten free" shampoo, salt and meat. saw that on the telly the other night, could not believe anyone would be thick enough to fall for that. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Yeah you check through mans history, not the recent stuff only, and you would have to wonder how we got out of the cave. Seems there was, is and always will be large groups who cannot be constructive rather destructive. It is a matter for us as concerned individuals to put forward examples of construction that are not conducive to progress us, trouble is groups get on board and warp the intent. I call it "society correctness" probably is worse than "political correctness". We gang up in a tribal sort of manner, and believe me that is being shown as spot on as I "progress" down the solar for NQ path. The corporates exploit this "condition" to feather their nests. The knockers use it to unknowingly s...t in theirs.
Mobi I reckon we could say irradiated with crap. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All No matter what we do as a human race it effects other parts of nature for a short or long term, as a matter of fact the glass windows in our homes and commercial buildings kill more birds than any other thing including feral cats, but do the broken heart brigade snooping a tear jerk story mention this, of course not because we neeed windows, a poor little turtle under a cactus in the dessert however is a good tear jerker. How stupid would you have to be to believe that PV panels could microwave a flying duck overhead, when they survive a microwave transmission beam between repeater towers and as we all know the PV panel absorbs light not produces death rays, of course in the manufacture of panels there is some green house emission produced, about as much a high fashion handbag carried by reporters to carry their makeup mobile phone and other unmentionables, all so sad. Norcold, when you do your EIS make sure there are no green frogs in the area or any other color for that matter, a couple of boxes of eastern brown's or copperheads may help to shorten the EIS. Start saving them now. Politicians are only on your side at voting time, Quote from my Dad. another good saying of his was, It is far easier to get forgiveness than permission. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Antor I thought for a while you where going to convert the thread to a cooking and herb survival thread, and while I like Barramundi and mushrooms the only thing relevant to this thread is that cooking them on a solar powered induction cooker is cheaper than gas with the new price rises proposed in Australia. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Yes, I reckon that reflected sunlight death rays would be a real killer to ducks. (just kidding)
Seriously though, has anyone tried to detect and measure PV solar panel radiation of any sort.?? People used to think that Industrial Wind Turbine noise didn't affect health but that is slowly changing as the evidence mounts up. David M. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mobi I did check once with a light meter Photographic type and found that a panel reflected about half what a mirror did and a plain sheet of glass slightly more, there was enough heat generated under the glass however to make the grass smolder. When you consider that the panel converts 15 to 18 percent of the light energy to electricity, where has the rest gone, some heating the panel but the rest dissipated into the air, according to panel makers they use special glass to hold in as much energy as possible so until some smarter than I person comes along with some scientific data I will wonder, but not worry. I had a toad jump onto a panel that was lying on the ground while load testing, when I came back a few minutes later it was cooked, but not microwaved as it didn't puff up. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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