 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : EV's : Aussie Electric khanacross special
Page 1 of 5   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
| galderdi Regular Member  Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Hi everyone, I have been competing in grass roots motorsport since 2005. But recently I built myself an Electric Vehicle (EV) from the ground up. Engine: Advanced DC FB1 4001 Exhaust: None Suspension: Home grown Wheels: Various (some Bob Jane specials and some Simons) Modifications: Everything from the ground up Stereo Audio / Visual: None Estimated Power: Power is not huge at around 75 KW but the torque is 440nm from 0 revs. I know its not the usual ride you would expect to see here. I have built this car specifically for khanacross events. It weighs 530kg. Most of the running gear is from an N13 pulsar. It is front wheel drive and still has all 5 forward gears. I also use it for Motorkhana and hill climbs but it is most suited to Khanacross. The batteries are from a Holden Volt. They give 7kwh of power starting at 170v dc and a peak of about 500amps. The motor controller is a Curtis also capable of 500amps. Here is a video from the latest event (Motorkhana) http://www.youtube.com/attribution_l...m-upload_owner But there are better videos on my Youtube channel I have created a new Youtube channel and Facebook page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnEGxozdhehgrxXcohzWiYQ https://www.facebook.com/fullchargemotorsport/ |
||||
Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi galderdi The link to the latest event youtube video doesnt work. Had a look at your youtube channel and facebook page. Very cool! I think for short track racing like that EV's could be very competitive. Lots of torque, quick out of the corner. Tomorrow I'm off to the Leaburn Sprints ( http://www.leyburnmotorsprints.com.au/, its a short street racing track, and has been going for decades. Wide range of vehicles, like vintage, muscle and later model. An electric would fit right in. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Thanks, Once I iron the bugs out it should be quite competitive in street sprints like Leyburn. I have done a few of those sort of events in my 240z but the EV (Batt mobile) should be way more competitive in these events where top speed isn't all that important. I blew up the controller at my last event. I think it was a good thing because I think that controller was always falling short of my expectations. It forced me down the upgrade path. I have a replacement controller now and it should be way better. It is much smarter, providing me with the ability to control the limits and output data so I can see what is going on. But also it is literally twice the capacity. In theory that should double my acceleration. But I doubt I will ever be game to push the limits quite that far. But realistically I expect to easily increase my current from the previous maximum of 350amps up to 600amps (well short of the 1000amp limit of the new controller) |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
I made it to the final event for 2016. It was the Interclub motorkhana. The car and driver both performed fairly well. I managed to secure 6th place outright. That put me ahead of 8 out of the 10 Porsches and all 4 Caterhams. There is still pleanty of room for improvement. The controller kept defaulting to 500amps instead of providing the full potential (circa 800amps maybe more). Plus I was using up some very old, very hard tyres. Heat was a concern. The air temp was around 35 degrees. As the motor built heat during each run it was unable to shed the heat and much of it was flowing into the controller (not a good thing). I will be adding some extra precautions to protect the system. I have made a list of adjustments to make before the next season begins. Here are my videos from Sunday: Interclub Motorkhana 27 Nov 2016 |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
I managed to place 1st in class for khanacross and 2nd in class for motorkhana. Not bad considering it was largely a development year. I have modified my rear lower control arms. They are now adjustable. I can wind them in or out to control the Toe and camber. I have also added a heat shield between the motor and controller. I am really looking forward to the 2017 season. |
||||
| joebog1 Senior Member  Joined: 07/11/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 114 |
I must say its bloody good to see !! I had thought that motorkhana was dead!! In the 80,s I ran many a khana and sponsored quite a few, BUT for Alfa Romeo,s. ( AROCA ) 35 years later I look at what you have made, and you do deserve a pat on the back!!. I had a poke around youchoob and found, I think your first effort, filmed from outside the car. Its fast!!! AND its only the beginning!! Some more film from outside, rather than inside, is very much more entertaining. EXCELLENT work, even if its not quite "on topic" , BUT it is totally on topic. I may not be around to see it, but with new battery technology, and fancy magnetics ( read rare earth) electric cars WILL be the future, unless we can invent plasma drives. TOP NOTCH !!!! Joe |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Wow, Thanks Joe. That is the best thought out response I have received. Motorkhana is pretty much dying although we are still trying to save it. Noise is one issue, people just won't put up with it anywhere where there is bitumen. But also shopping centres are now open 7 days a week so venues are scarce. If we all drove electric cars motorkhana could have a revival as the noise is greatly reduced. If you thought those old videos were fast you really need to see my latest. In these I turned up the wick to 790amps (previously I was at 500amps). The difference is obvious / spectacular. Plus I am considering how much higher I can take it. All indications are another 200 amps so long as its not a super hot day. Check these out: With GPS: With GPS With GPS 360 degree 360 degree 360 degree 360 degree 360 degree |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
My weekend was great although a little stressful at the end. Our club had a come and try Motorkhana with a decent turn out. I took my new slicks but couldn't get motivated to swap them on. Plus they are expensive tyres to waste on a come and try event. The car went really well. I set it on 750amps for most of my runs. That was plenty of power to spin the wheels. I was starting to get the hang of feathering the throttle. My adjustment of the throttle has made it much more controlable. 3 of the 5 motorkhana specials dropped out after a few runs. 2 were due to mechanical issues and 1 due to a driver's previous health issue. The other special was quicker than me, as expected. Not because of power but because his car is smaller, lighter and more nimble. I will gain a little at the next event by swapping to my new tyres but I doubt I will beat him (for the same reasons). Hence why I am starting my next project. I am fairly confident I beat all the road cars so I would have come about 2nd if it wasn't a come and try day. But then, just before the last test, my car suddenly died. I checked all the usual causes but couldn't see anything obvious. Eventually we pushed it on the trailer and I called it a day. I sorta hoped the trip home would cool it off and it would be OK again, but that wasn't it. Then I got to thinking the SOC was getting sorta low by that stage. I had run it lower with the old controller but this is the lowest I had run it with the new controller. So maybe I had exceeded the controller threshold. So I went to connect the charger and realised the controller was set to "Stationary Mode". So I switched it back to "Running Mode" and it worked again. I will try and replicate this scenario this coming weekend to understand if my theory is correct. But I was quite concerned while it wasn't working because I was unsure if I would make the next 2 events on MArch 25/26 in Gladstone. But it has all worked out. Oh and the rear alignment is now great. Much more stable than the Feb tests. Here are the videos from Sunday: I am not embedding them all just to save space and scrolling. External view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uXDdvUHg6Y With GPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asit5SQQSZc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2w1gjgRIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3y_nly2_mw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYa9lguj_I4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnaZaJxcd5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD0WnfrfIDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf6WaTz6M04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QpN9s1WFsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blm59_tczY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGEAs0eIJkI 360 degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUJe4m1k4ZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojP3m5nVLEY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L46Kg-hptzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3eUchGXwdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZBPCqvG9sU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABUpOKKD9W0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mYojBCwMa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclkWfzSe9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RhTYfb5e_0 |
||||
Tinker Guru  Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Hi Galderi, Just out of curiosity I watched one of your youtube videos as I had no idea what a Motorkhana is. It appears its a short race around a tight course with an electric vehicle  .The drivers view video shows the driver frequently grabbing and yanking the hand brake. Why is that? Sorry if that is obvious to you - its not to me. What, IMO, would really spice up the video viewing is if it was filmed from the track side or a drone perhaps? One could then appreciate what the car actually looks like and what it can do, rather than having to imagine it from the fixed through the windscreen view. Have fun. Klaus |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Thanks Tinker, I do try and get some external footage as per the first link. But it is dificult because I spend so much of my time queing for my next run. Plus drones are banned. But here are a few links to vides from outside the car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uXDdvUHg6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRFGV6_ZScc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0FV4B-56Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SprMDV2u2YA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJwoPen6Bg Motorkhana is about as grass roots as grass roots motorsport can get. It is basically a point to point time trial through a predefined test. The tests are registered nationally. There are around 100 tests registered. The tests are carefully measured so that competitors can improve on their results for each test from event to event an location to location. My vehicle is considered a "Motorkhana Special" as it is specially built to compete in motorkhana. But motorkhana is open for all road cars and the majority of competitors drive their vehicle to and from the track. The tests are extremely tight and technical. While acceleration is important, driver skill and memory are much more important. For any turns tighter than about 100 degrees it can be quicker to use the handbrake. This allows the rear wheels to brake traction and quickly spin the car into a new direction. To do a handbrake turn requires a fairly sudden application of the handle in order to brake traction. For the standard, cable, handbrake this is not a good thing. Even a few handbrake turns with a cable handbrake will likely stretch the cable noticably. So many of our competitors either choose to drive the corner (without the handbrake turn) or install a hydraulic handbrake. Hydraulic handbrakes can be applied suddenly with no risk of damage to the cable, and they apply th brakes more effectively too. Motorkhana is an awesome platform for kids as young as 12 to learn how to control a car. By the time they get their license they have a much better chance of handling unexpected situations. In particular city kids that don't get the opertunity to drive old cars in paddocks. Even as an adult I credit motorkhana skills with my avoidance of 2 major incidents. |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
 Here is an example from one of the tests included this past weekend. |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
I need to clarify, some of those external videos I listed are not motorkhana. Some of them are Khanacross. Motorkhana are usually within a 50-60 metre area and only reach speeds of 60kmph. While Khanacross are more flowing up to 2km in length and can reach speeds of 100kmph. Some of the videos listed are with my old controller. It was no up to the task an performance was mediocre. But now that I have the new controller it can pump through 1000amps. The car is much better suited to khanacross due to the size and weight of the car. |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
   |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
  |
||||
| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Thank you for your very informative reply. I'll look at the videos later, the pictures look great. Now I know you were sitting in a kind of go cart with a roll bar and seem to have lots of fun. I assume its rear wheel drive? Does the electric motor have regenerative braking? If it has could you not tweak that to act like your hand brake  when you get to a tight corner?Klaus |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
No problems. No it is front wheel drive. I chose FWD for 2 main reasons. Firstly I can put my expensive/sticky tyres on the front and old/hard/thin tyres on the back and still get great performance. With rear wheel drive you have to put sticky tyres on all 4 corners to get performance. Secondly FWD tends to be ever so slightly quicker in motorkhana. No regen unfortunately. I haven't had experience with regen but I imagine it wouldn't lock the hubs, if that is true it wouldn't help with handbrake turns. Unless it was applied at the same tiem as a handbrake. Also the other usual questions are about AWD and All wheel steer. Both of these are against the rules in my sport. As is anti lock brakes and traction control. I have just started work on the next car. It is probably 18 months away from completion. I will keep the existing car and it will focus on the higher speed events to which it is more suited (due to the larger footprint). The new one will be a pure motorkhana car. It will still be FWD. It will be a bit shorter, single seat, slightly narrower in the front, much narrower in the rear. I am aiming for sub 300KG. The motor will be the baby brother of this motor (8 inch instead of the 9 inch). But the power to weight will probably increase overall due to the targetted 40% weight loss. |
||||
| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Is it worth considering the steering ratio? I see there's a bit of hand over hand steering going on, would a lower ratio steering box help? I used to race speedway in Mackay many years ago and as you would know there is a lot of steering wheel action going on. One of the fastest cars in class was a Ford Falcon XD, 250 6cylinder. The owner had changed the steering box to a low ratio, so had to turn the steering wheel a lot less end to end. This meant he had to run a hydraulic steering pump, which did drain some power. But he said the loss of power was nothing compared to the gains in steering control. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Thanks, yes it is high on the agenda. This rack was sold as a quick rack. Clearly that was a lie. I am not sure it is worth the cost and effort for this car as I will retire this car from motorkhana in 18 months. The ratio won't be an issue for the higher speed events. The new car will definitly get a quicker rack. I did have details for a source of performance racks but I seem to have misplaced it. |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
I was competing in Rounds 1 & 2 of the Queensland Motorkhana Championship in Gladstone over the weekend. In preparation for the event I had a trailer brake pad seperate from it's backing plate. So I replaced that before leaving as travelling for about 18 hours round trip with no trailer brakes didn't appeal to me. I tried to adjust my clutch cable, but in the end the cable gave way and sunk into the sheath. Luckily I didn't need the clutch for this weekend anyway. Then when loading the car on the trailer I realised the throttle was playing up. I eventually reverted to an older throttle I had as a spare. Luckily the weather held out despite the looming tropical Cyclone further north. The first day the car was running very well and I was positioned in 3rd for most of the day. But later in the day the heat got to me and I had a brain fade moments. I still managed to place 6th outright which isn't bad considering I got 3 tests wrong out of 12. At the end of the last run on day 1 it was apparrent I had developed a significant vibration. I beleived it to be a loose bolt from the flywheel or clutch plate putting the flywheel out of balance. Or potentially a worn gearbox bearing. The motor itself still seems to spin smoothly. With little time and without my workshop facilities I could not risk separating the motor and gearbox to inspect the problem. At the end of day 1 I was faced with the decision to protect the vehicle or continue with day 2. If the event didn't figure in the season standings I would have pulled out. But as it was Round 2 of the Motorkhana season I decided I would proceed with caution. I figured I would coast through the day with the aim to complete at least 50% to at least earn some more points towards the season championship. On day 2 I found the vibration was worse at low revs. I was hoping it was just the clutch out of centre, but my clutch cable was out of action so I could not release the clutch to help it re-centre (if that was the problem). But I pushed on. For any medium to long tests I selected 2nd gear from the start and turned the current up. This was my attempt to keep the revs at a managable level and not do any further damage. I also periodically cooled my head with ice, which I think helped me concentrate, resulting in better results. In the end I managed to achieve 3rd outright for day 2 which was about my target coming into the weekend and well exceeded my expectation after developing the vibration. I have packed the car away as we have some really bad weather looming for the next few days. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to pull it apart and identify the problem. My next event is a khanacross on April 9th (2 weeks). Hopefully it is a quick fix other wise I will miss my second khanacross in a row. That would be devastating as the car is much better suited to khanacross and I have been really looking forward to seeing the car's true potential. |
||||
| galderdi Regular Member Joined: 12/08/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 99 |
Hi again, The car is all ready for the next event. This one is the first Khanacross for 2017. I have been looking forward to this for many months. The car is very well suited to this format and the car is performing better than it ever has before. This is my best cahnce so far to show what it is really capable of. The event will be at Willowbank on Sunday May 21. |
||||
| Page 1 of 5 |
|||||
 Print this page |
