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windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 07:11pm 13 May 2016
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Well it is now 5 years (15th May 2011) since I moved (retired) to live in Cow Bay in the Daintree rainforest/paradise, and still loving it.
I had arranged for my new power system to be installed two weeks after my arrival, which is how it happened, so the accumulated figures I am about to give are 14 days short.
Total battery DC input 20931 Kwh
7 day average 14.4 Kwh
Total battery DC output 15832Kwh
7 day average 11.06 Kwh
Total AC load 35798 Kwh
7 day average 19.75 Kwh
Total AC input 2780 Kwh
7 day average 1.47 Kwh
My system is 10Kw of solar panels, 48V bank of Exide 1350 Ah flooded cell batteries, a 5 Kw Selectronic SP link inverter and 3 x Xantrex solar controllers. I have had two batteries replaced under warranty, no fuss. My current backup generator is a 3 cylinder Detroit diesel coupled to a 3 phase Stanford 22.8 Kw base rated 1500 RPM generator, I use this single phase restricted to 7 Kw max. througt the inverter for charging and load. This unit I salvaged out of the bush, I salvaged one unit complete and one motor only, I had to swop motors but all is good.
I have back up back up generators in the form of a single cylinder Lister coupled to a 240v generator and a small Lister coupled to a 55/110V generator.
I am quite anal about my system and equalize the batteries when my gut tells me to, I do the washing when I want to, this involves the cloths dryer. So all in all if push came to shove I could be much more efficient on generator run time.
I used to have one of the largest systems up here, not any more. My now southern neighbor, has installed 24 Kw of panels, he charges his electric car and has air conditioned his house, as I have.
I still heat my water off gas but cook off electricity have 4 split system air conditioners, plasma telly etc.
Pics of all this have been posted in the past but if there is any interest I can post again.
Allan"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 09:52pm 13 May 2016
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Happy anniversary . Quite a few KWH's on the clock.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 01:11pm 14 May 2016
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Good to see your still enjoying it up in that hell hole jungle Allan.
Very surprised that 2 cells failed.....very surprised.... any thoughts as to why?
Also surprised at the hot water set up.... gas is very expensive on the island, and electrons are cheap.. so I use normal hot water system... with 10kw and so far north would have assumed you would too.
Never a bad idea of having pics of your jungle hide away, very different to a wind swept island in Bass Strait..... but your place is too hot for me.
Good to hear your still about the place.
...........oztulesVillage idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166
Posted: 02:03pm 14 May 2016
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Thanks Allan. very interesting!
when I look at that I see your use as about
9.4 kwh direct from the panels
8.6 kwh from the batteries
plus a bit of generator here and there
on the average day
I remember the iffy cells. at the time I was yelling at the computer, dont wait, get on the phone NOW!!!
Do you have a feel for what your battery use and direct panel use would be for the highest and lowest solar times of the year? A system of that size in this part of the world could easily double those daily averages and still have plenty of power up its sleeve.
I imagine it is afternoon cloud rather than the sun being low in the sky like us southerners that changes your insolation. and our weather is a lot more boring. the old saying, if its not sunny just give it an hour is true here! I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 01:13am 15 May 2016
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interesting Dc input vs DC output roughly 75%
guess it takes energy to bubble off the Hydrogen/oxygen.
the 20% DOD helping them live a long time.
Killer up there is batt temp - shed + split system = live twice as long
35 deg ambient halves calendar life
K
Edited by KarlJ 2016-05-16Luck favours the well prepared
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 06:06pm 20 May 2016
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This is my solar system
"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 06:42pm 20 May 2016
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Footbridge for when creek floods
Some of my solar panels
The VM Motori 22Kva 3 phase generator that I salvaged.
My largest lister, good for 2.5Kw.
My little Lister, in use atm doing 1.5 Kw, coupled to a 55/110v alternator the output of which is rectified below
"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 07:38pm 20 May 2016
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Toules I don't have any feedback on the two failed cells, am told I will never be told. This bank was never balanced from new, all I can say is my RE guy has always given great service. Some of the remaining cells are out of balance but there is not a lot I can do about it except good equalizes.
I just wish it was possible to set the xantrex XW solar controllers such that the inverter controls the charge, but I can see no way of achieving this.
Yes Gas is expensive up here and hot water heating is one thing I will address, you have to remember there is OZ time then Queensland time then FNQ time then Daintree time, so I will get to it. Four of the five years I have been here my health has not been the best, so it is a bit hard to get over excited, but hey I see a light at the end of the tunnel just hoping it's not a train.
"Hell hole' is subjective, my only real complaint about living up here is difficulty with health services, very good service is available in Cairns, 2 hours drive away. But I am far from an orphan in that regard.
Yahoo; on a sunny day my batteries are on float by 10 am, they are receiving 2.5 Kw before the sun gets above the east trees. Every season is different but even in the wet season they usually make float daily. We are in miserable May so too much rain and cloud, but hey it gives me a chance to exercise the lazy diesels.
With care I can greatly reduce my usage, like now I am only running one air conditioner, it's not hot 25.8 deg, so one keeps control of the in house humidity just fine. "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 11:54am 21 May 2016
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Looks like a very nice place to live.
I have just installed a Midnite charge controller which has a function called "waste not". What it does is provide a PWM signal out of one of the auxiliary outputs when absorb or float voltage is reached. This allows powering a load via a solid state relay, I am using this to feed the extra power via the inverter to the electric element in my solar hot water system. So until the thermostat kicks out it keeps the PV panels out at or near full power.
I bought the controller on line from the US for less than half what they are sold for here.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 01:09pm 21 May 2016
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"I just wish it was possible to set the xantrex XW solar controllers such that the inverter controls the charge, but I can see no way of achieving this."
Not sure I understand what it is that your getting at here, care to elucidate?
I am not a fan of the fancy solar chargers for FLA systems, but prefer to match the panels to the battery bank, forget mppt, and use my own system.
For the last few years seems to work perfectly well.... we'll see in later years.
I agree with Chris Olsen for a change, the FLA need a bit of action, rather than none, and a bank using no water is a bank slowly dying... they need a bit of giddy up every day if they are cycling.... different ball game just floating.... but really a boil daily is needed to stop the stratification which must occur otherwise.
No one seems to really know....not even the makers of batteries can agree.....
And then there is Flinders Island Time..... and we get the best health system over here as well.... don't know why, but remote communities are really well looked after from our experience.... if there is any doubt about anything at the local hospital ( it's got everything too )... they fly you straight out to Launceston ....for free....24/7
Specialists come here regularly ( inc dentist )...and our hospital food is great too.
..........oztules
Edited by oztules 2016-05-22Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 01:18pm 21 May 2016
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The so called fancy charge controller gives the batteries a giddy up as you put it and charges them just how Trojan says my batteries should be charged. If you can't see that benefit I don't that there is anything that I can say that would matter.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 01:54pm 21 May 2016
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My solar panels are arranged at about 130v through 3 60A Zantrex MPPT's, Their ability to equalize is limited IMHO, I would prefer the inverter do this task. The SP does this well and I control it, batteries boiling daily is my preference. I need a controller that can handle 180A and reduce from 130 to 65V so the inverter could have control.
The Zantrex does have an auxiliary contact that could be used to switch an electric water heater.
12" + rain up to 7 am, the plus because it was overflowing, not much solar today 0.82 Kw from a potential 10, bar humbug."I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331
Posted: 02:03pm 21 May 2016
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The thought of fiddling with this bunch of cables just drives me to drink.
"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).
yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166
Posted: 03:26pm 21 May 2016
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about the simplest thing is to hit the equalise set function one day a week on one controller.
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 08:00pm 21 May 2016
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My inverter has relay's like that too, but what I was describing is more sophisticated than that and will put a lot more power into the Auxiliary device while maintaining full absorption and float output to the batteries.Edited by Madness 2016-05-23There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 12:57pm 22 May 2016
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Madness, I am glad you are happy with your lot... I never am.
The web is littered with folks with all the right gear doing all the right stuff.... and failing spectacularly.
Battery technology is not as simple as you think, and charging regimes are very complex, and demand to be modified as usage conditions change.
Different usage and charge patterns cannot be rectified by voltage and current measurements.
Even here Alan has all the right stuff, but the results are less than satisfactory, and has him feeling a little tender around the bung hole.
Manufacturers of batteries never agree on charge regime, and which ever one you used is the wrong one if your after warranty.
In my previous life I spent many many ... many hundreds of thousands of dollars on batteries, and I had over 500 people trying to destroy them on a daily basis... I've seen it all... and suffered massively.
Only one person looks after your interests, and thats you.... if you leave it slavishly to others you will likely be disappointed... that includes technical fixes like xantrex, gsl, etc etc
They all work, but they are not synced to your actual environment... they are best guesses and conservative at that... they have to be.
I have only 3 rules.....
1. Dont ever use gel or agm etc.in off grid. Theyu have their place, this is not it.
2. Measure at least a few cells every day with SG meter
3. Make sure they are fully charged every day...if not buy more diesel, or more panels
If you do this, they will probably make it to the proper life cycle.
Then it is simple.
And no..... with that experience, I won't be told.
..............oztules
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 02:42pm 22 May 2016
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Hi Oztules,
Your very right about looking after your own interests, I am very hands on DIY, sometimes I get it wrong but in the long run I am way in front and not reliant on others to who try their best to extract money from you.
My batteries are used FLA golf cart batteries, I get them for scrap price and have been getting reasonable results with them. Those that have dead cells I don't bother with, the rest I put on charge and go from there. Currently I am running about 1600 AH @ 48 volt. The batteries that fail I sell for scrap at the price I paid for them.
I will keep doing this until there is a new technology that proves to be better. You are right I am happy with what I am doing and the results, many years ago I had a basic off grid system with a Dunlite wind generator (see avatar pic), however most of the time we had to use diesel to make up for the shortfall. My current set up includes generator that is connected by auto start to the inverter charger, with 7.5 KW of PV the generator is rarely used.
GaryThere are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 07:41pm 22 May 2016
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Cant take issue with any of that Gary... keep it up.... and if it's working.... it don't get better than that.
"I will keep doing this until there is a new technology that proves to be better."
Ditto.
......oztulesVillage idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
powerednut Senior Member Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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. Quite a few KWH's on the clock.
)...and our hospital food is great too.
