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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Malaysia Airlines flight 370...
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
I have more then 100 air-disaster documentary episode, and SPECIFICALLY, I love planes for the avionics. You'd never get me on a plane, though! 
Anyhow, what is the view of the members of this forum on the vanishing of MH370? As many have commented, seems hard to believe in this day and age, that ANY plane can go missing, what with all the electronics on board, and automated reporting systems, to say nothing of the fact that we can control a remote robot on Mars from billions of KM away, but we can't seem to locate one plane on our own planet.... All comments and suggestions welcome on this thread - what happened to that flight? There have been others - the Air France flight a few years ago, and how about the mystery of Stardust?(the STENDEC thing) This plane was discovered more then 40 years later - crashed into a glacier, tripped an avalanche, plane was buried in the glacier, and spent the next 40 years or so moving down the glacier and melting out of it... Could something like that have happened to flight 370? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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norcold Guru  Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Like you I don`t like travelling by plane, although they are apparently the most safe way to go. My view on the plane being lost for so long, I find it hard to believe with todays tech this can happen, can only suspect it is a case of the corrupted ingenuity of a very sick mind. My thoughts go to the loved ones of the passengers, they would be going through hell. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Was not going to post , but here goes----- You are right ,in my humble ignorant opinion, how can we,( the world) lose something as big as this monster airplane??? You watch all these tv news grabs, who's telling fibs, who's just in it for the money the hundreds of commercials that must make for the networks? Flying , I hate it , don't want to get on a plane again -used to fly nearly twice a month in my late working life ,it sucks. just hope the people on board rest in peace. Bruce. Bushboy |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member  Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
i was over to a friends last night. we came up with two possibilities. CNN hijacked the plane to give them something to talk about other than the Ukraine. or aliens hijacked the plane but the authorities can't admit it. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
They know the transponder was switched off, and they seem to have established that the plane then flew on for about another 7 hours, but after that.... Planes in other countries like that - do they have secured cockpit doors? After 9/11, I understand that all American planes and/or flights have secured cockpit doors, but what about other countries? Is it likely or possible that someone breached the cockpit? Not sure about that, cos even Helios 522 had a secured cockpit - that somehow the stuward managed to open - perhaps ALL planes now have a secure cockpit? What I am getting at, is that if it was very unlikely that anyone got IN, then that only leaves the pilots - PERHAPS something nasty went on there - who knows, it's all speculation on my part. As for the hijacking rhumors, I don't beleive that, cos it is pointless to hijack a plane, then not demand anything or tell anyone you have done it in order to try to impose your will on others. All real hijacking, they make sure that ATC etc know about that fact - they don't stay quiet. Or even if it was another 9/11 type thing, there is no target way the hell out there in the middle of the ocean. VERY odd thing indeed.... 
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I hate flying. Last time I was up in a jet, I became very aware of the fact below my seat was a thin floor, someones luggage, a layer or two of aluminium, and then 10km of air. I remember being very conscious of the fact. I was also aware, as with many accidents involving aircraft, if something did do wrong, and I survived the initial event, I would have a good 10 or more minutes before impacting the earth. If I'm going to die in a accident, then I want it to happen quickly, like in a car or train accident. I DONT want to have to think about it for 10 minutes! Air travel is very safe, but I would prefer to drive or take a boat. I'm more likely to die in a car, but at least I'll only be aware of the fact for a second or two. One thing is obvious from the 370 flight. Its how poorly we track stuff in the sky's. Even with all the fancy radar and satellite imagery, we cant find a great big plane. Though of course there is the argument that one or more nations did track the plane and know where it ended up, but dont want other nations to know how good or bad their aircraft tracking systems are. Grogster I'm pretty sure all cockpit doors are locked these days, the events on 911 caused change in all countries, not just the USA. Even short hop flights I've been on around Australia involve X-ray screening and hand luggage inspections since then. I do have a question regarding flying, and would be interested in others views. A significant portion of aircraft accidents are caused by human error, in a otherwise healthy aircraft in good conditions. And some of these happen when the crew ignore the flight computer systems and take things into their own hands. These days computer systems are more than capable of flying aircraft, from take off to landing, and in difficult conditions. Would you be passenger in a completely autonomous plane? Or what about a plane where the pilot has no control over the flying, but "advises" the plane to say, avoid that storm cloud if possible, use runway 2, delay landing for 10 minutes, etc. The plane does the rest, and at no time is the pilot given, or can take, control? Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Yeah that feeling of a bit of AL shell below is always their in the few times I`ve flown. Too me would not make much different whether completely controlled by computer, although I think I`d like to have a pilot there. Regardless it has to be a last option for me to fly We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
From Star Trek: The Next Generation episode Booby Trap: (season 3, episode 6) ...and a scene or two later... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| M Del Senior Member Joined: 09/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 155 |
Like a lot of you I find it hard to believe no one knows where the plane is. Satellite maintenance transponders picked it up several times, and different military satellites and radar instillations must have picked it up along it's route. If it went the northerly route then it had to pass over a number of semi hostiles who would put up fighters to challenge it. If it went the southerly route then our stuff would have picked it up during it's flight. As to who and why, I believe only the highest officials will be given the correct information and we mere mortals will be fed whatever scraps they wish to give us. But I figure there is a couple of Navy and Air force radar operators (whatever nationality) out there who could tell us exactly where it went and are busting to tell someone, but are under orders to say nothing. Mark |
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| Privatteer Newbie  Joined: 09/06/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
Cockpit is only secure when the door is closed. Gets opened fairly often from what I have seen, toilet, food etc just need to be in business class. If the current radar data is true it would seem to be a hijacking either pilot/s or passenger with training. It may be just my suspicious nature but I reckon there's a good chance there was more communication than has been let on and the delay in releasing data kept the search going in wrong direction. |
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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
One thing I seen somewhere else is that The U.S.Navy has just recently gotten A new weapon and needed to test it. The main stream TIME WASTERS here in the USA only showed it one day. Isaiah URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I think my 2nd option would suit me better, a captain that can give instruction but can not take over the flying of the plane. Planes would communicate with each other, and be aware of each others movements, using tcas and gps. There are quite a few air disasters in the past that would have been avoided with such a system. For example, based on the some of the accidents I've see on that TV show Air Crash Investigation.... A hijacked plane could only be ordered to land at one of several airports within its fuel range, it would not fly in a direction that has no airport in range. A plane, if its crew became incapacitated, would send a mayday and head for the nearest airport, communicate with other planes in the area to give it some space and land itself. No more ghost planes. A plane would not ignore its tcas system and not collide with a another plane. A plane would not get lost on a foggy runway and find itself in the path of another plane. A plane would be more likely to fly with severe damage to its control surfaces. Some planes now have software to do just that, fly a damaged plane where a human could not. A plane would not forget to set up itself correctly for take off or landing. A plane would not become impatient or tired. And a plane would not fly into a building. There would be no point in hijacking a plane, and a passenger plane could not be used as a weapon like it has in the past. Its just software, and software than can be improved. For example, that plane that landed on the river after a bird strike took out its engines. After such an incident, you can teach the software to do the same thing - if no airports in range, look for alternatives, like a river. The mapping system will know whats available, and radar and optic systems could scan for a boat free portion of the surface, in a few milliseconds. Software could run thousands of simulations before making a decision on the action most likely to succeed. Admittedly, there will be times where the software made a wrong decision, and people died. But so long as we learn, and improve the software, then it will get better. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Computer control in particular to remove their use as a weapon for terrorists, would be a major deterrent as would the other suggestions. The world needs to combine all resources cooperatively on International flights, lets hope that good comes out of this tragedy. Still I`ll go for using plane travel as a last resort, unless for tourists, workers and emigrators with teleconferencing etc there really is no need for all the flights at present. Resources are being wasted. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
One of the theories suggests that somebody could have hacked the onboard computer: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/17/11/11/mh370-hack ed-with-mobile-phone [quote] . . . "It is looking more and more likely that the control of some systems was taken over in a deceptive manner, either manually ... or via a remote device turning off or overwhelming the systems," Dr Leivesley said. She said evidence suggests Flight MH370 may have been taken over by someone with "a very sophisticated systems engineering understanding". "It is possible for hackers ... to get into the main computer network of the plane through the inflight, onboard entertainment system," she said. Dr Leivesley floated the theory days after Malaysian prime minister Najib Razak revealed that MH730's last known recordings indicate there was "deliberate action" to divert the plane. Possible culprits could include criminal gangs, terrorists or a foreign power. In April 2013, German security consultant and pilot Hugo Teso demonstrated it is theoretically possible to hijack a plane remotely using a mobile phone. [/quote] (I put some quote from the page as often pages stop working after a while. Hope it is OK) George |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
A lot of people know EXACTLY where it is, and what happened. The Jindalee over the horizon radar for one. It covers that whole entire search area. That system is now routinely used to measure wave height and wave patterns so the Met Bureau can map wind speed and direction. It picks up even very small wooden boats with ease, and is our front line for detecting illegal immigrant vessels. Something like that massive jet, even flying at wave top level well over the horizon would stand out unmistakeably. The Jindalee tapes will show exactly where that aircraft went, and if it crashed, the precise location. The US also have satellite radar mapping, and water penetrating laser mapping for underwater detection of submarines, as well as satellite optical observation that can now reputedly clearly read vehicle number plates from space. So it completely disappeared huh ? No it did not. Not these days. At the very least, the US and Australian governments know all about it. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yes Georgen thats the best way to do it. Its OK to quote so long as you provide the source, which you did. I'm not convinced anyone does know where the plane is. The lower southern Indian ocean is of little military importance, and I expect it would not be high on the list of places to monitor for enemy activity. Yeah over the horizon radar may have seen it, but only if it was looking at the time, since many remote radar's are time shared with the BOM. I remember the Mackay rain radar would go off line for a few hours a day to track weather balloons, and couldn't scan for rain at the same time. And some asylum seeker boats and illegal fishing boats do end up a long way down the western coastline before been detected, if at all. I do remember reports of boats showing up at Broom, and the NAVY was red faced, didn't know anything about it. Plus this search is costing big money, for a whole bunch of countries. If any of them did know where the plane went down, they would at least suggest " Hey, lets look here today " Nah, I think its lost, and even when they do find any wreckage, it will be some time after that they find the black boxes. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
I go for it being lost, and done deliberately, if it was known where it was surely the world wouldn`t expend all the effort the news media is portraying it is. Initial lack of cooperation between countries tracking resources - leading to now seemingly full cooperation. Better computer, software and security of such. Hell tis law for us boaties to carry epirbs offshore, imagine if one such device was immediately activated automatically when the plane first deviated off-course. Immediate and automatic notification of crisis, plus location. Response - call pilot on radio for confirmation of change of heading - no or suspicious response - keep tracking and take precautionary action. I am not saying exactly like our simple epirb just something a little more up market. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Privatteer Newbie Joined: 09/06/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 39 |
Malaysia apparently refusing to supply cargo list. It defies belief that my work ute is GPS tracked to ~15m location yet a ~$260mil jet does not have a similar system. Even if it was accurate to 500m due to speed it would still help locate after an incident. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Well, yeah - exactly. However, with the transponder switched off, this is essentially a glorified GPS with some more features, then that's the same as turning off the GPS in your ute... Something very fishy with this one - perhaps unprecedented? There have been lots of plane crashes, but they always find the wreckage and the CVR and FDR... OK - to be fair - it took them a couple of years to find the boxes from that Air France incident, so perhaps it will be a similar thing here. Although, the AF flight - the automatic systems transmitted all these failure messages, but with 370 - it just flew off into nowhere and was never seen again - VERY strange thing indeed. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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powerednut Senior Member Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
There are a number of rational explanations to explain what happened to the plane. For example it might have been hypoxia, caused by a failure of the air supply system on board. Hypoxia can make people do very strange things that they would normally never do, including turning off safety systems. There are stories about hugely experienced pilots with time in command can be measured in years, rather than hours getting affected by it and acting like they are drunk or high. One particularly memorable story had the pilot and co-pilot giving conflicting (and impossible) information about their whereabouts for hours while fellow pilots tried to talk them down. They had turned off their transponder, and had apparently done lots of other weird stuff. They wound up out over very inhospitable territory, hundreds of nm off course. The plane finally ran out of fuel, and as it glided down below 14000AMSL the pilot finally woke up, took stock of where he was and asked his lifelong friend (one of the other pilots trying to find him) to tell his family he was sorry and he loved them. For anybody who is interested in the full tale, get yourself a copy of Cloud Dancer's Alaskan chronicals, volume 3. If you want tales of fun and adventure in the skies, get the first two volumes. One thing to keep in mind is that publicly discussed theories can be quite hurtful to the family of the people on that flight, pilots included. Might be best to wait until what actually happened is known. If I have hurt or offended any relatives or loved ones of those on the flight, I'm deeply sorry. |
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