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Forum Index : Electronics : Ioniser for pool
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KarlJ Guru  Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
aussie mob2010-03-29_194715_2010_CATALOGUE_V3.pdf Cell alone is a bit over $200 thinking I could use a simple switchmode power supply (ex mobile phone or cordless drill power supply at 5-12V) any thoughts vs the $800 for a commercial unit? Luck favours the well prepared |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
I dont know how they work exactly, but think they are rather heavy on current. Your link gives no details on voltage or current requirements. With the vast options of units and sizes shown, one would think there be just as many controllers to suit. Your question is a bit like "how much power will my mill make on a windy day?" 
Breed frogs and forget the ioniser. 
Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
much much less heavy on current than a salt chlorinator. i read somewhere between 40-400mA as opposed to 20-40A for a salt chlorinator. Apparently the ions bond to algae and make them inable to "breathe" killing them. claims include 80% less use of chlorine and given chlorine is nasty stuff, the less of it i have around or have to cart in the back of the car the better Luck favours the well prepared |
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GreenD88 Senior Member  Joined: 19/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 104 |
It's basically an electrolytic Cell that releases copper ion's into the water. Very deadly for algae, and a lot of other stuff too. Basically your trading chemicals for electricity to make the chemicals. Definitely don't want to use this where humans will be swimming or have contact with it. Ornamental Ponds only. Licensed Master Plumber / EPA 608 Universal License / 410a Safety Certified / Medical Gas Brazer/Installer |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Here is the punch line from the brochure. “If you’re not prepared to drink it, why let your children swim in it?” Angus Horwood & Associates Pty. Ltd. ACN 093 121 076 trading as AQUAVIC Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| GreenD88 Senior Member Joined: 19/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 104 |
And after your children swim in it would you drink it?! ;) Licensed Master Plumber / EPA 608 Universal License / 410a Safety Certified / Medical Gas Brazer/Installer |
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SSW_squall Senior Member Joined: 20/03/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 111 |
I don't know who thought of that totally bogus marketing clique, but i wouldn't be swimming, much less drinking water with high levels of copper salts. Never mind pay $800 for the privilage!! You could go for an ultra-violet sterilization unit. Bunnings warehouse have some models that are designed for keeping water feature ponds free of algae. I think from memory the UV tube is about 20W so it would be able to handle a reasonable amount of flow. You could even power it off a solar panel if you were clever, so it just ran during the day?? AB Einstein: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Ho Karl I have a severe chlorine allergy so did some research on the subject. The suggestion made to me was a combination of three things all non harmful and no chemicals the first stage is four neo magnets feeding across the pipe to polarize the water the next stage is a high voltage static voltage by winding a coil around the pipe with 3mm coil spacing and 20kv static voltage no current except atmospheric losses then a sleeve on the outside to act as an insulator, the next stage is a ultraviolet inducer done with several hundred uv diodes in a spiral around a clear glass pipe, I haven't built one yet but plan to do so in the future as the drought has now broke (hope they don't fix it) It is non intrusive to the water and very low running cost, It was developed by a friend of mine for his clonal plant laboratory as it needs activated sterile water, I don't know the science behind it but some of the other smart guys in electronics may be able to explain how it works. Hope it is of some use. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Bob is right but the first 2 stages have little to do with killing the nasties and are used in filtration and water softness through filtration, the uv light dose all the sterilization. Before you rush out and buy a bunch of uv leds to build one, you need to check into the uv wave length used as i know the fluros from sterilizers will not work with uv sensitive circuit boards and nor will the uv leds that dentist use. Emitted uv is bad for your eyes 
The magnet systems are available and come as a 500mm section of ss pipe you add into your plumbing or a clamp around magnet in 2 halves that fits to existing plumbing. The high frequency (i think its about 5khz) coils is also sold as water softeners with filter systems. The uv lights are sold as pool sterilizers. Internet shopping time... Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
that looks like a really expensive shopping list boys there are UV sterilisers on the market for pools and they run 60W fluro or so in a cannister kind of thing. All these systems claim a reduction in clorine but not a total removal, I guess the best system would be as described above but where do you draw the line? Hobby this is NOT, windturbine is hobby, this is a simple need to not use $550 in chlorine every year, happily spend $50 in chliorine and $50 in copper electrodes and i'm $400 in front (put towards next mill) If we call it $600 for the wisardry and 5 years I'll be there then $120/year + $100 in consumables so $220 a year vs $500 a year for chlorine I'm ahead, If I run the pool pump less as a result too then its win everywhere. Just thought someone may know an easy way to cheat to power the electrodes......(ie cheap!) Curious about the magnetic thing, 22KV is not appealing though! any links? Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Pools fall into a similar category as boats, except a pool is a hole in the earth that you pour money into, instead of a hole in the ocean you pour money into. BTW, if you don't get the sanitizing of the pool right, then you will likely end up spending much more on medical expenses, to treat ear infections etc that can be caused by poor sanitation. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| SSW_squall Senior Member Joined: 20/03/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 111 |
VK I can't see how the the first two stages could do anything significant: The Neo magnets could potentially catch any fereous material, rust and iron particles. I'm not what polarizing the water could be refering to... Aside: Neo magnets are a great additon to the sump on any car or other engine, as they catch any stray particles that are too small for the filter. Because electric fields go to zero inside any conducting closed conductive surface (faraday cage) The voltage around the pipe no matter how high, will do nothing to any bugs in the water, but could kill any unsuspecting bugs that happen to venture too close to the coil
The UV LED's could actually do something in terms of sterilizing the water. However UV LED's emit rather long wavelength UV light which is alot less effective than the short wavelength light emitted by the average UV sterilization fluro tube. Also UV LED's lose there effectiveness after quite a short amount of time... I think a single $20 10W UV tube could be slightly more cost effective than 200 UV LED's at $4 at shot?? AB Einstein: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Karl Sorry I cant give you any tech details on the device as it was an in passing bit of information from my friend so I could have a swimming pool with no chlorine, I have seen it and from memory it was about 3 ft long glass tube around 2 inch id. it had to provide a lot of sterile water for the misting system in the lab but was restricted in flow to slow the water. It was very cheap to run as the led was the primary power user the HV generator was only a few milliamp. The major thing is the health benefit as chlorine is one of the most dangerous chemicals to add to water as it can cause cancer and hardening of the arteries, which is what happened to me, just by showering in the water the gas is released breathed in and directly into the blood, a naturapath in USA is the one that told what happened to me and it can happen to anyone but as I have a bad allergy it affected me more, do a Google on health and chlorine there's lots of info there. The cost is the least of the problem. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Salt water chlorinators seem to be all the go here in Adelaide and to me it makes the most sense but i know nothing about the cost of them and the exspence of running them, but understand they are the easiest to maintain. I refuse to own a deep puddle in the back yard and consider them not a very efficent thing to own I think you can buy the magnet systems off ebay but might not be all that they claim them to be. Like all smoke and mirrors ...some work and some claim them to work. You can even get magnet systems for fuel lines in cars that claim an increase in mileage. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi squall The use of a glass tube may be significant and the HV section has an insulating sleeve, also I know that the induced field has an affect on things in the water presumably bacteria as well, fish are collected in a fish farm by inducing a high frequency high voltage into the water to cause them to swim to the harvest ladder. You guys can can sort out the tech side as I am about clueless in modern electronics and UV wavelengths. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
I dont have the skills to build one simple. glass tubes (evacuated tubes in fact) and pools generally arent a good mix,tough to glue and if they break, glass ends up in the water BAD. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
The magnets charge the ferrous particals in the water so they clag together and are big enough to be filtered out. The coils generate a frequency that charge the calcium particals so they clag together and can be filtered out. Hence water softner. This method is nothing new and has been around for many years in some water softners. Gordon might know more on this given his background. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Downwind I know what you mean about cost of a pool the one at mums place costs $60 a week to run and at least two hours a week of work, I recon it should be made into a frog habitat or a wine cellar. That's not including the three new pumps a new filter tank a couple of creepies and the expensive pool fence the council insisted on over the last ten years. Sorry to rain on your pool Karl. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Tell me about it, I just convince my mum to fill in her 245,000L pool (think bloody huge and really deep at the deep end, had a slide and diving board too!) She replaces a pump pretty much every year, sand filter every 10 and replacement sand every 3 years, new chlorinator cell every 5 years, massive electricity cost but family wants a pool and i like em in these hot climates. Got a response from this mob http://www.aquamatics.com.au/assets/pdfs/Aquabrite_System_Se rvice_Notes_A4.pdf along with this email Hi Karl, The Aquabrite System is a non chlorine sanitation System. The Bioniser and the Aquavic can not make this claim because there are using chlorine as there oxidation process. Regards Charly P.S. Chlorine is very high in salt and within 6-12 month both of the above system will fail because the " total disolved Solits " will be to high . A true ionisation Process is not compatable with salt . seems odd when the active ingredients in the AQUABRITE stuff is Oxygen Bleach - isnt that chlorine? Luck favours the well prepared |
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| GreenD88 Senior Member Joined: 19/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 104 |
Well if you have a problem with chlorine, then that copper electrode probably won't be such a good idea. Although copper is good for killing algae and purifying water the copper ions released will still have a ton of Chlorine ions generated with it if you have a high enough salt content in your water. Besides too much and you'll be turning your water more greenish if the concentration gets too high. They do make alternative pool algaecides (shock) that are not chlorine based but rather, ammonia compounds, or copper compounds. But when you go the route of making your own ions your introducing all kinds of other nasties along with them. If it was me I would stick with a known product for swimming pools that works rather then something that's designed for ornamental fountains. You can be talking life and death. There are also pool forums out there that have a ton of information on algae treatment. P.S. Look at the label for ingredients and then look up the main chemical up I bet you can find the main ingredient far cheaper at bulk from a chemical supply house. Pool treatments are marked up because of the market, pretty much your buying the name not the product. And the electronic water softeners or coil around the pipe doesn't actually soften your water per say but rather helps dissolve the calcium and magnesium compounds and keep them dissolved. Gives a slick feeling to the water but the hardness level remains the same. The only way to truly soften water is to precipitate the Calcium or magnesium out and the only easy to do that is with another salt such as Sodium Chloride or Potassium Chloride. Edit: Some of the things produced could be: Acid, Lye, Copper Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Chlorine Gas, Hydrogen Gas.... All depending on whats already in the water. Licensed Master Plumber / EPA 608 Universal License / 410a Safety Certified / Medical Gas Brazer/Installer |
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