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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 12:49pm 12 Dec 2009
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I have now ceased employment with the grid connect solar power mob for various reasons.
As I'm no-longer affiliated with anyone Note: none of the data I'll be giving you is proprietary information
so here it is
As you know I have a passion for the environment so I took a Job with a grid connect solar power mob…….
A 2KW solar system with XXXXXXXXX was $12,000………
Out of reach for everyone exception of Kerry Packer!
BUT over time it WAS feasible (15 year payback or 8-10% return)
Here is my advise for you -
–as I have no affiliation with anyone I make nothing out of it but I have spent a serious amount of time
And money to learn what is coming up next.
2KW system in Melbourne yields 8-9kw into the system (grid) each day, each KW you get paid 0.60c for (0.66 with TRU)
You will never get paid for the full 9KW as you need to run fridge etc and you are home on the weekends.
So average scenario is 7kw into the grid + 2kw used = $4.20+0.35c = $4.55 ahead each day.
This is = $1660 per year.
NU-energy have a deal at the moment for $5K for a 2KW system
(better than 1.5KW for 99% of people as Melbourne doesn’t get as much sun as Sydney, Bris or Perth)
(+some extras for 2 storey and tiles if applicable + $2-300 for Bi-directional meter)
Quality of installation is as good as it gets
components per the industry standard
with 5years warranty on inverter and 10years on panels.
25 years @ 80% output.. This is govt regulated and required for all systems thus you are assured of good quality.
Here is the payback math
1660/5000= 33% return on investment
5000/1660= 3 year payback
This is an AWESOME offer being under half the price of what I was selling and closely represents the cost of equipment and installation. (it’s the best deal in Australia at the moment as far as I can tell)
A 2KW system is equivalent greenhouse gas emissions saving of taking 4 cars off the road. And is one of the only steps we can do to slow down climate change, whilst still maintaining a good life style.
a 2KW system is sufficient for most families to end up with a $0 electricity bill.
SO…..
What do you need.
North, North west or North east roof that is NOT shaded and has approx 9.6m wide and 1.5m deep or 4.8m wide and 3m deep
What do You do now.
1)Get a FREE home energy assessment from here
http://www.environment.gov.au/greenloans/
Everyone is Eligible for the solar rebate
(unless they got the old rebate) and the green loan.
2)Get your certificate saying you are eligible for the 4 year interest free govt. green loan
3) Take this to your bank and get a green loan for the full amount of your solar system
4) Book in your installation with this mob (takes 3-4months which is normal)
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/solar-power/solar-energy-pricing. html
5) Begin enjoying the savings as over the 4 years of interest free you basically will have little or no power bill, spend this money repaying the loan.
In 4 years you will own the system, it will add value to your house and you wont be stuck with big power bills
(price of electricity is going to double in the next 2-3 years).
A word of caution
–electricity retailers will never actually write you a cheque (in Victoria) for surplus you generate –use it or loose it!
Thus if you have a bill of less than 9kw/hr/day you will be saving the environment
GREAT and you will never have to pay another power bill GREAT
But…… your system will take longer to pay back (upto 9 years)
(IN this scenario get a 1.5KW system for $2500= this will generate 6kw/hr day Melbourne)
Lastly- if you use lots of electricity during the day again your payback period will be longer but it will NEVER be more than 9 years.
THIS IS A BETTER DEAL THAN ANYONE GOT UNDER THE OLD REBATE -TAKE it!!!!!
One more thing - there are always better products out there this is no exception -they may not use the best gear on the market BUT in terms of return on investment, there is nothing better out there and if in 10 years its stuffed -replace it simple, by then it will have paid for itself three times over.
Luck favours the well prepared
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 12:51pm 12 Dec 2009
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Oh and thanks for my customers who told me to get out
of that Job, and thanks to those who already knew what I've just said above.Luck favours the well prepared
Interesting! Been doing lots of research myself and have had lots of quotes, mainly for a 3kw system. Wasn't really even contemplating Nu-Energy but they have just sent me a pricing schedule for the 3kw and it is $10,899. The best quote so far! I have never heard of the panels they are using, QSE. This system comes with Power One Aurora series inverter (made in Italy). I had a Solar Shop "consultant" around the other day, I know their equipment is quality, but I cannot justify the $15,000 they want! Origin were even worse at around $18,500. If I can find out a bit more about the reliability of the QSE panels I may go with Nu-Energy. Edited by Fester 2009-12-17
I'm trying to organise a quote for a 5kW system for my school/church in Sydney. Can't seem to find anyone that will even give a quote. Tried Aussie Solar but they said it's too much paperwork to do schools. Tried Solar Online at Newcastle. After 10 days, 1 email & 2 phone conversations still haven't got a quote yet. Is there anyone in Sydney that is well priced? Doesn't look like Nu-Energy is in Sydney.
On their website it has NSW, so I would assume Sydney.
http://www.nuenergy.com.au/solar-power/special-offers.htmlEdited by Fester 2009-12-19
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 05:16am 19 Dec 2009
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Nu-energy is pretty much Australia wide and 5KW is outside their normal range so they come out and quote.
Here's the deal on the panel quality, they meet the guidelines to meet AUS standards and qualify for the rebate and have the warranty.
SO my way of thinking....you're system pays for itself in 5 years at worst (including the inverter installation etc).
In reality, it doesnt matter if the panels die, as you can sell them on ebay and still get good $ even if they only make half the power they did when new, which is almost impossible.
To me, anyone on this forum would quickly see areas for potential failure and should that be the case (highly unlikely) could probably do something to improve their longevity.
Keep in mind the inverter will probably die at some point in the first 10 years, as mentioned elsewhere on the forum, the caps die and require replacement which is why most of them come with 5 year warranty.
Again this is no big deal as with the feed in tarrif the new/repaired inverter will pay for itself in no time.
Think of it as about 99%less cost than looking after a windmill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW now that feed in tarrif will be paid in cash in VIC, dad and I did the math on the extra panels for his 2KW system with 4KW inverter and it will make over $4000 in electricity per year thus paying the power bill for our bore (which uses a sh!t load of power)Luck favours the well prepared
Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105
Posted: 11:04am 22 Dec 2009
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What is wrong with a 1.5KW system? It seems the first 1.5KW is the most heavily subsidised. I am in Sydney and have a good aspect for plenty of sunlight.
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 08:19am 23 Dec 2009
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nothing "wrong" with it but if you have the roof space, 2KW is better. (even 3,4,5 and so on)
My thinking is this -household baseload is pretty much fixed (fridge etc) so any bigger is purely feed in which is money for Jam and payback period heaven.
If I had the means and the roof space, like dad, I'd be going for 4KW in panels (which he has) and 2x Fillm dual stator F&P's with the LATRONICS PVE1200. (were half way to that as of today -we got wind as on the farm and close enough to the coast that its bloody windy.
KarlLuck favours the well prepared
tommy Newbie Joined: 23/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6
Posted: 09:06am 23 Dec 2009
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Thanks for your post Karl, it is exactly the information I am looking for at the minute.
I had my green loan assessment today and are now actively looking for a ~2kW system.
I did note however that in a post "Posted: 26 November 2009 at 8:37pm" you did give Nu energy a bit of a flogging, have you changed your opinion since then?
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 11:14am 23 Dec 2009
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Yep I have
here is the thing they use CEEG panels which certainly aren't the greatest on the market HOWEVER
I think the old saying of cost is forgotten long after quality is remembered does not apply here for several reasons.
1) although Nu-energy are the cheapest in the market, they are the largest, hence should be around a long time
2)Inverters all have a limited lifespan, there is an article on the forum somewhere about it but there is a definite weakness in their design which ultimately limits their life, this applies to ALL brands as far as I'm aware.
This is why the SMA 10 year warranty is $1000. as somewhere between 5-10years, they will need a $500 birthday (caps I believe)
3)Solar panels all have a finite life too, they degrade in the sun, in 10 years if they are still working they will still be worth something even if the technology makes some giant leap (which I doubt it will).
4)The return on investment for say brand Y =14years and for brand X is three years then it would be INSANE to spend the extra.
Its not like they are doing dodgey installs, the few I have seen are A1.
5)Warranty periods are all the same as they have to be that or better to qualify for the rebate.
6)Rebate in reality is worth less than $4K now and in all liklyhood will the price of the equipment fall by this much in 5 years --It did last time when $8K was up for grabs and it will again, hence it needs to pay back within that time -which it does.
7)climate cant wait for most of us to save up the $4K+ difference in price between A and B
NO mistake there IS a difference in quality but is it worth paying premium price for the panels and then paying a premium markup as well?
Look at my other post on cost of solar panels, guys have now offered us on the forum $2.5o/W now if we are really pinching pennies, get the bigger inverter and the mounts for the bigger system and buy panels yourself to make the larger system -I hardly think its worth the effort when you are literally paying an extra few hundred and you can do it all legally with RECS and so on.
Good luck!
Luck favours the well prepared
tommy Newbie Joined: 23/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6
Posted: 06:11am 07 Jan 2010
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Just found this through another site. Details one guys quotes for systems.
Very interesting quotes. For the 1.5kW systems some providers are 3 x the price. Are they really 3 times as good? Considering that even the cheapest has considerable warranty. I don't think you could go too far wrong.
Love to hear other people's thoughts.
Lee.
gpalterpower Senior Member Joined: 19/07/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 175
Posted: 04:36am 09 Jan 2010
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You can try these guys. Nickel Energy on the Northern Rivers NSW. Not too sure if the'll go to Steak and Kidney for a install,..... hey, but its worth a phone call at least. Just had them install a 2kw system on my house with a conenery inverter. Very nice job. Their phone is (02) 6622 7639. if it aint broke dont fix it!!
Anyone else with some experience on these NuEnergy guys? It seems their QSE panels they use are polycrsytalline and not mono as most others... But I am fearful that, if it's too good to be true...
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 12:29pm 31 May 2010
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St3v0
here's the math
I can buy poly panels (better heat performance by 0.1% per degree temp rise = 20% better heat tolerance, thus better for Australia in reality.
Drawback is the panels are physically bigger thus need more roof for same capacity string.
OK 1.5KW panels $4K
Aerosharp 2KW inverter $1000 or thereabouts (10 year warranty)
Mounting hardware about $5-600.
BOS (balance of system) breaker boxes circuit breakers wiring etc about $250.
Installation roughly $1000
This sums up to $6850 and rebate for 1.5KW is $6500+ thus
Nu is making money! being the largest retailer of solar kit their buying price is probably better than mine!!
SO in colclusion -exactly what do you get thats better when you pay twice the initial outlay?
in reality probably very little.
The Sunbox that the company I work for installs is about $12K which includes a solar hot water system, POwerone Inverter and frameless Solon panels.
No doubt it looks trick but panels are IN FACT 3x the price of the QSE panels
and give much higher specific output per m2.
Thus paying about $7K for the solar and $5K for the hot water.
not a bad thing if you need both and it needs to aesthetically blend in with the house. But as far as cheap vs expensive it domes down to the budget.
I got quoted $22K (after solar cities "discount" and RECS)for 4KW in suntech panels and old transformer type Sunny boy the other day, I literally walked out laughing as my 4KW system is going to cost me about $14K less the 8K rebate so about 1/3 the price.
DIY and save a packet in my opinion.Luck favours the well prepared
readyakira Senior Member Joined: 17/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 114
Posted: 10:40pm 31 May 2010
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Um, just a thought, but, if a 1.5kw is 2500 and a 2kw is 5000 why not split the house in two and get 2 1.5's for a total of 3kw for 5000???? maybe my math is not good or my thinking isn't. but it, shouldn't be that hard to do and still tie both back to 1 grid connection? I assume it would take more then about 1k extra to tie both to the same meter?Don't you think Free/Renewable energy should be mandatory in new buildings?
But if you split your house, you will only get the REC rebate on one of the systems won't you? Hence making the second much more expensive...
neil0mac Senior Member Joined: 26/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 210
Posted: 03:22am 01 Jun 2010
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As I understand it, it isn't the 'house' that is split that the energy providers won't accept. Provided that the power output (in NSW, at least) is under 10KW it can have a number of inverters per metering point/pole/supply line.
This looks like a great deal with Nuenergy, local sunshine coast companies are offering 'special' rates of $2500 for a 1.5kw install, Energex are $2999... $1899 for 1.5kw from Nuenergy seems like a steal. The warranties are 25yrs on the panels and 10 years on the inverter.
Is it worthwhile upgrading to the 2kw inverter in case we purchase additional panels down the track? Seems like quite a premium - an extra $900. Or is it better to wait for the original unit to expire if they are prone to failure, then upgrade it.
We are big energy users in our current house, its heavily shaded and is a little breezy being a 100 year old Colonial design. The place we will eventually move to is being renovated with 75mm foam etc, better insulation and has a better aspect. I would love to make it energy positive, ideally cutting A/C useage to a minimum.
Has anybody used a SunLizard or similar for cooling? I'm thinking about using one on the sunshine coast - in the house we are renovating.
Cheers,
MrC
Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105
Posted: 10:04am 16 Jun 2010
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That Nuenergy deal is for QLD and not NSW where I am, bugger.
Is a bigger inverter better? Sure, but my rule of thumb with technology purchases is buy only what you are about to use as you are about to use it. Next year could see different, better equipment available. Very true with computers and with the price and demand of PV panels changing, same with alt energy tech too.
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