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Forum Index : Other Stuff : velomobile
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| Dinges Senior Member  Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Has anyone on this forum played around with velomobiles? Driven one, used one, even built one perhaps? I find myself getting more and more interested in the topic over the past year and would like to hear from others on this board about their experiences with it. 
Peter. |
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sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
Looks cute, put a fish tail on it - make it wiggle as it drives 
Not sure about Europe, but it would be difficult to get that certified in Australia. Although as a 'motorbike'it would probably get past easier. On a personal note, I looked at converting a van for a work EV. Would have been all good till the $US crashed. Now the lithium pack I need is the same price as two new vans. I even looked at using several thousand hobby Lithium cells. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
[quote=Spudd]Not sure about Europe, but it would be difficult to get that certified in Australia.[/quote] As the velomobile is human-powered it classifies as a bicycle over here. So no insurance, licensing, road-tax, MOT, etc. Also, speedlimits do not apply to any non-motorized vehicles here. 
BTW, the fishtail has been done before... 
http://www.velorution.biz/images/Velorution%20-%20Fish%20bik e.jpg Peter. |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
This looks like a greenspeed recumbent with a jacket. There is an enthusiast club here in Adelaide that meets to compare performance of these type of vehicles. the 1000mpg club, with ones that have combustion type fuel motors. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
From Wikipedia: [quote]Mopeds are a class of low-powered motorized vehicle, generally two or three wheeled. The moped classification is designed to allow the use of small motorized vehicles that are not subject to the safety restrictions and license requirements for larger motorcycles. In some countries, such as France and Belgium, microcars like Aixam and Piaggio Ape are classified similarly to mopeds as "light quadricycles" - because of their low top speed and small capacity engine.[1] In law and regulations mopeds are a particular class defined by limits on engine displacement, speed, power output, or transmissions (and in times past, a requirement for pedals). In some countries, the legal driving age for a moped is lower than for larger motorcycles, and consequently mopeds are popular among the youth. Typically, mopeds are restricted to 30–85 km/h (18–53 mph) and engine displacement less than 50 cc.[/quote] Australia should allow them too... In United Kingdom are ok... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251 |
A bike. I'd hate to be pedalling that in our 40C 90% humidity summer. It'd be like steaming a fish in there. sPuDd.. It should work ...in theory |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Many electric bikes can travel at about 30Km/h on flat ground. They are very good for short trips if you live in flat country. |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Vasi and Don, The vehicles I'm talking about (Velomobiles) don't have a motor, they're powered by the rider's legs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile. And yes, we also have a class of vehicles called 'mopeds', for ages 16+ (with moped-driver's license required nowadays, and insurance) that have less than 49cc displacement and can't go faster than 40-45 km/h (from memory, could be mistaken). But it's a national sport with the youth to 'improve' them so they can go much faster though. I've been overtaken by some whilst in my car driving 80 km/h.... 
We also have a class of 'bicycles with motorassist', which is another class in-between plain bicycles and mopeds, for vehicles that can't go faster than 25 km/h using only motor power. They have even less displacement, require no helmet when riding and no license (but you need insurance). These basically look like plain bicycles with a small petrol-powered motor, or can look like a scooter (Vespa etc.) 
or: 
Nearly forgot... there's a 3rd class of motor-assisted vehicles, that is grouped with ordinary bicycles; those are the motor-assisted bicycles that only provide power when the rider is actually pedaling himself; i.e. no pedaling, no motorpower, called 'pedal-assist' over here. They provide only very little power, but it can still make a huge difference to some riders. These are mostly meant to provide a little aid for older people who can't maintain, say, 50W power output over a period of time, but who can, with the help of the small electric motor, make 'normal' cycling trips. These vehicles require no licenses or registration. Most have a permanent-magnet brushless DC motor in the rear-wheel. The kind of motor I'd like to play with for a windturbine....
Then there are the 'mini cars' (called 'brommobiel' over here) that can't go over 45 km/h, require no license or MOT, but need insurance. They're legally classified the same as mopeds, even though they have 4 wheels and look and behave more like cars than two-wheelers. They're not allowed on the highways but apart from that they're quite like automobiles. Mostly driven by the elderly who aren't allowed to drive cars anymore or the handicapped, but there's a shift going on where the vehicles tend to be used now by younger, well-abled people too. Cheap alternative for a full-fledged automobile, yet still comes with much of the benefits of riding a car, without all the taxes and legal paperwork. 
As you can see, people here have quite a few options to choose their preferred mode of transportation from, apart from 'bicycle' or 'car'. I count 4 groups in between the 2 extremes from 'fully human-powered bicycle' and 'gas-guzzling automobile'. Having options open to you is always good. Ok, now youse know all there is to know about Dutch road-legal vehicles. Things you've always wanted to know, but were afraid to ask.... 
[quote=Don]Many electric bikes can travel at about 30Km/h on flat ground.[/quote] Don: many non-electric bikes can travel 30 km/h over flat ground as well. I do that routinely on the recumbent, and, if I were slightly more trained, on the delta-frame (upright) bike. Velomobiles can attain speeds well over 50 km/h, using nothing but muscle power. The world speed record is somewhere around 125 km/h (from memory). But for me, the biggest advantage of a velomobile wouldn't be speed but endurance (range) and weatherproofness (rain). We don't have many 40 deg. C / 90% humidity days over here.... But even if you do, good velomobile designs have ventilation ports that provide ventilation (as long as you're moving). Peter. (who's more worried about excessive rainwater than excessive sun) |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I could drive my ev over there then?? Maybe with rustic insurance. ..........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Ah, ok then, understood. For the remaining text, is a very good article. Is what I wanted to do... That scooter is a jewelry, I like it! Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Trev can make any kind of velomobile body ... You need sketches, a bicycle and another wheel. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
[quote=Oztules]I could drive my ev over there then??[/quote] I s'pose you could... just keep in mind that we're up North here. So 'up' becomes 'down', down becomes up, left becomes right, right becomes left, etc. That, plus the fact that youse have the steering wheel on the wrong side. Come to think of it... would those two wrongs make a right ? (Peter walks off submersed in thought. Deep thought.) Vasi, I have no doubt Trevor could build one. The question is whether I can 
BTW, from the responses I gather no one on this board has played with velomobiles yet. Some are interested in EVs (as I already knew). I think velomobiles (being basically glorified bikes) have some distinct advantages over any EV. Am toying with some ideas on building something too (thinking of wood construction, as used e.g. in the Schleicher Ka-6 gliders; it would easily allow double-curvature surfaces, without the necessity for making moulds and fiberglassing, which is a drag for one-off products). Or perhaps buy the fairing and build the rest of the vehicle myself. Or get a crashed velomobile and patch it up or use it as a basis to start from. Hard to say yet what course to take. Will let the idea smoulder in my brain for a while longer. Maybe I will have a 'Eureka!' moment and will feel like Einstein felt when he had invented the lightbulb. Thanks for all your comments. Peter. |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 224 |
Hello Dinges,maybe you could develop a fairing that opens like the petals on an old flashlight reflector or vegetable steamer.But made from some dacron sail like material.In a head wind the fairing is down and in a tailwind it expands to contribute some extra sail power.The manufacturer of Greenspeed is not far from where I live and I have contributed to his project early on.I hired one for a week and rode it to the top of a nearby mountain.It was hard work up but glorious on the decent. Anthony. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Anthony, I think I'd prefer a hard shell/fairing, as it'd also provide some protection. Plus I think that'd look much slicker, less DIY-ed. Nice to have a company as Greenspeed near you! The downside of recumbents and, even more so, velomobiles, is their higher weight compared to plain (delta-frame) bicycles. Which means more weight to lift up. Up-hill riding is the only part of a ride where a plain bike can still beat a 'bent or velomobile. Though I can nowadays keep up reasonably with road-racers up-hill. Down-hill, of course, is a different matter.... 
BTW, last thursday, as I was on the home leg of a longer ride on the recumbent, all absent-minded and caught in thought and just chugging along on the 'bent, I suddenly heard a claxon. Looked around and at the other side of the road on the cyclepath there was this girl in a bright yellow velomobile waving and smiling at me. Dreams are made of this. 
Velomobiles and recumbents are still rare enough here that their riders wave at eachother. I've so far seen 3 recumbent riders in my area since I have the 'bent. I've also got used to the stares of others. Actually, it's not much worse than the stares I used to get before I had the bent.
Peter. |
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philb Regular Member  Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
Dinges, I'm green with envy that you have "cyclepaths" where you are. Here, in the central US, the only "cyclepaths" are around parks and universities. Bikes are not taken as a serious mode of transportation. (Maybe the gas is too cheap again.)  philb |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Is there a steep learning curve to go from a conventional bike to a recumbent? |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Phil, Yes, I realize how privileged we are here in having such an extended network of paths. Made another longer ride deep into the province Zeeland last weekend, about 120km. 90-95% was spent on cyclepaths, only the small rural roads (which have very low traffic anyway) had to be shared with cars. Don, there is a learning curve for most people. It took me ~2 days of (intermittent) efforts before I could ride a few meters without falling off. This is extreme though, many can just ride away on their first attempt. In my case, it was because the bike was adjusted for an experienced rider (especially ballhead angle), which made the bike extremely unstable (though the manufacturer prefers to call it 'agile'). After I learned to ride it a bit I adjusted the angle... and noticed the bike was so much easier to control. I think that if I'd made this adjustment before I started the learning process, it wouldn't have taken me more than an hour of attempts before feeling enough in control to ride on the street. The funny thing is... many people seem, for the first few weeks they are riding it, to be *slower* on a recumbent than on a plain (delta-frame) bike. This is because some other muscles are involved in riding a 'bent. After a while you develop 'bent legs, they say. Well, in my case, I was much faster than I'd ever been on the delta-frame bikes right from the start. About 4-5 km/h faster without any extra effort. Headwinds are hardly an issue too anymore. I'm most definitely not heavily trained, but I *do* feel some evil pleasure when I get overtaken by a fully dressed-up roadie, huffing and puffing, while I'm just gentily rollin' along.... Last time that happened when I was leisurely cruising, I couldn't resist hooking up with him (took only a tad more effort on my part). When he looked behind him after a few km, he was slightly surprized to see me in his wake.... (wish I'd had a sandwich in my hand at the time [evil grin]). Dressed in 'normal', non-bike clothes and wearing plain shoes, non-clippable. Priceless. Some people have even developed this into a sport: http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/HPVlog/06-03-06.html 
Evolution... it works!
Peter. |
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| Dinges Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Just stumbled upon this website; it's this kind of construction method that may be very suitable for a one-off velomobile too: 
http://picasaweb.google.com/adventuresofgreg/BoatBuilding# No need for moulds too. Glass over the styrofoam core, then remove core. Except in this case it'd be for building a tricycle, not a pedal-boat. ...more thinking required... Peter. |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
I ride my bicycle 3 miles daily to maintain my physique. Okay, I'll level with you; I'm 60 and look like a light bulb with legs. At any rate, I was all fired up about this and went out to purchase a "bent" (recumbent) bike). Woah! They're wicked expensive! And a velomobile is three times as expensive as a bent. It's not that I don't have the money, but I'll have to give this lots of thought before I invest my kids' inheritance on one! Still it's a great idea and if I take the plunge, I'll throw up some pics. Thanks for the idea. I like new toys! Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Dinges: I think I may have found something worth investing in. It's a cross between a sailboat and a tricycle. Looks like great fun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc0ixpICiBQ Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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