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Forum Index : Solar : Electric Vehicle Range extender... For offgrid.
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| Davo99 Guru  Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Browsing Alli today can came across these 48V/60V/72V Petrol Generators.  After having a good laugh at the idea of once again FF having to come to the rescue of Electrics, I thought of another application of backup for home Systems. There are a few different models of these if you search for them but this one seems the most dedicated. They have re engineered what looks like a standard Chyneesium/ Predator/ Knock off Honda motor and given it a much larger Flywheel with the alternator built in and eliminated and sealed the protrusion for the Crankshaft on the other side of the engine. Not sure about the implications of that, Might put a lot of load on the one bearing but then again, it's only balanced rotation load rather than a side or thrust load so probably pretty easy I would think. $8V let alone Higher Alternators are rare in my limited research and I can Imagine 60 and 72V outputs aren't exactly think on the ground either. Some of these engines are set up with a remote fuel tanks and a frame with rubber mounts for the engine to keep the setup as compact and easy to fit in your electric Tuk Tuk as possible. The price seems reasonable but of course with ally and Bangood etc, Shipping for anything larger than a shoe box becomes Ridiculous and a complete and utter joke. I have mailed a number of sellers on these sites for sensible and viable postage and I just get more insults to my intelligence. Some of the savy Buyers here may know a site or a way to get something that weighs more than 1KG sent out for less than $300. The things appear to have an inverter built in and some have 3 " Gears" ( WHY can these sellers not even write their ads in reasonable English if they are going to rely on the western market as much as they do) The " Gears" being a manual start, automatic and a "FLAMEOUT" setting, what ever the hell that is?? Might be a low end charge fire up? Who the hell could know. In any case, if the settings on the things were reasonable or able to be adjusted, could be very handy to have on a battery bank so the things fired up if the bank got too low. With 5 KW @ 48V being around 96A, seems a decent amount of power to top a bank up. The voltage is probably more suited to Solar backup than EV's here. |
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Chopperp Guru Joined: 03/01/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1057 |
Check again. Interesting item though. Yes, shipping costs can get quite high. Brian ChopperP |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
5000 / 52 ( bottom battery voltage) = 96.15 A Obviously less amps if you go to 58V on a full charge but probably not what would be done in a top up situation. . Edited 2021-09-22 00:50 by Davo99 |
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| pd-- Senior Member  Joined: 11/12/2020 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
Maybe a black start device for us offgriders interesting idea but i do not think i would trust it to work when needed |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Hard to say. I have found those Chyneese Knockoff engines to be unfailingly reliable. The electronics may be different but the regular Chyneese generators aren't bad. I was just talking to my father today about the wood splitter I bought him 8 years ago. He laughed a bit when he saw it was Chyneese made with a Chyneese engine. He said I never thought the thing would last 10 Minutes but with the work the thing has done, I wouldn't buy anything else now. I bought him a Flail mower earlier in the year. He wanted this one over the one I wanted to get him because this one had a Briggs motor on it. I bought him a wood Chipper at the same time which was a Chyneese engine of the same size. I assembled the chipper then was working on the flail mower. Pulled the engine out of the Briggs box with all the briggs literature and markings and took one look and said this is a Chyneese engine. My father said no it's not, Briggs is American. I said this is a Chyneese engine. The muffler and intake are different but it's the same engine. Dad was looking at the box and said hey, and pointed. Under the briggs Name said " Made in China". I was looking at the engine and found the same notice on a sticker and engraved into the block with the Chyneese engine designation. I can't speak for any Chyneese electronics this thing would have but not had any problem with a Chyneese Generator I got at a sale years ago. The machinery and engines which between myself, my father and a friend I'd say we have close to 40 Between us have been great. I have Diesels and petrols and the only failures I have known in all these engines have been a few of my mates where his son runs them with no oil or has backed over them with the backhoe. Most of them now have the low oil cutout but his bright spark son worked out if he disconnected that wire the thing ran..... For another half hour or so anyway. As my mate says, Cheap enough not to worry. If it was a Honda or something, different story. That's something with this Chyneese machinery, for the price of a known brand, which may be the same Chyneese engine anyway, you can buy 3 maybe 4 of the knockoffs and have spare units in reserve. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Interesting Dave.... Yesterday I bought a new Victa lawnmower with a Briggs engine. And you are right, the whole thing is Chyna-bloody-knees. The engine is definitely a Briggs, it has an engine instruction manual in real readable precise English, and it goes on and on about being emissions compliant with the California Air Resources Board. There are also multiple pages of inane safety instructions that could only have been written by an American litigation lawyer, in a way clear enough for the average American intellect. So it looks like both Briggs and Victa have folded their respective tents and moved operations to China. Another sign of the times.  Edited 2021-10-16 08:16 by Warpspeed Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Sad thing isn't it Tony? The old Victa factory was just up the road from where I lived as a Kid at Milperra. I had a paper run and used to go in there of an afternoon. Even then I felt like I was in a Holly place of Australian culture and Icons. EVERYONE had a Victa mower and I would wake up every weekend morning to the sound of a Victa 2-Stroke as some Neighbour was doing their lawns. Victa sold to a company that was big in the car parts game among other things in the mid '90s and then in late 2000's, they were sold to Briggs. The old factory which was used to build aircraft during the war ( and the Victa Air tourer one of which still Buzzes round here) was sold and demolished and they have moved to a new place near Liverpool. I know that place and it might just be a distribution center now by the look of it. I laughed a couple of years ago when I saw Victas in Bunnings with Honda engines on them. I thought Briggs must know their engines have such a crappy reputation that they have to put the oppositions engine on them to move the things and not loose too many sales. That's like GM putting a Ford engine in their car. Yeah, they do things like that with Minor players at times but they don't sell GM cars with Ford still emblazoned all over the engines and use that as a marketing tool against their own engines! Talk about shoot yourself in the foot! When I did commercial lawn mowing, very few contractors would have a Briggs motor. Honda's used day in day out all day just never gave any problems as long as the oil was changed every blue moon. Main thing they came in for was when the air filter was so blocked the things couldn't breathe. Once calculated with a bloke that his Honda had did the equivalent of something like 200 years worth of mowing for the average householder. People mow their lawns about 15-20 times a year. ( except my Neighbour who mows his about 50 times a summer!) Contractors would mow 5-8 lawns a day, 5 days week Min. Call it 45 lawns a week, 45 weeks a year, 2025 / 17 = 199 years worth for the average house holder. And thats one year. Nothing to get 3-5 years from a Honda. Usually the base plate wears first from erosion before the engine gives out. I used to rebuild a LOT of those old Victa engines. Mate had a Lawn Mower shop and always got loads of people wanting cheaper Second hand mowers but he made more money in repairs. I would go and get all the trade ins 6 at a time in my trailer, get parts from him I Kept in stock and I'd clean and rebuild them. I'd batch them and could do them in under an hour each one. I printed some bright pink Tickets for them saying they had been rebuilt and we put 3 Months warranty on them. Such a simple, straightforward and robust design there was bugger all to go wrong with them and parts were so cheap. The only problems could really be Customer fault/ abuse. Only one ever came back and that was my fault in that I must not have screwed the coil plate down tight and it lost spark. Gave the customer another mower, found and repaired the problem with that one, cleaned it and back out the front of the shop in 30 Min. We sold a LOT of Mowers and made a good amount of pocket money on those. The Changed the original 3 Piece engine Design in 1984 To the " Powertorque" design which was a total piece of crap. Half crankshaft, Cylinder and case one piece and just Cheap, Nasty, unreliable and short lived. We didn't even bother with those things. Unlike the early design you couldn't trust the things. The con rod was pressed and being a half crank with 2 close set smaller bearings it didn't take long to chop out the bottom seal, specially if some string or wire got wrapped around it which let air and dirt into the crank case and game over. The 4 stroke Briggs were a terrible engine too no matter what people say. around the same time period their std engines had NO bearings at all and the crank ran in the aluminium casing as did the steel piston rings in the aluminium bore. They wore in no time, used heaps of oil and then of course Seized. Carburettors were a Pain in the arse as well. The big problem with the Briggs was parts cost. as mate pointed out once, He could buy a set of new pistons and rings with gudegon pins for a 6 Cyl red motor Holden engine than he could buy a piston Kit for a Briggs. Just not worth rebuilding although you'd be amazed at how many people wanted to spend the Money on " Old faithful". Later Briggs Came up with the "IC" line of engines which stood for industrial - Commercial. These things had steel Cylinder liners and roller bearings and were a Half decent engine although had a tendency to snap crankshafts the minute anyone hit anything half solid or heavy. NEVER saw a Victa break a Crank. Bend them, Yes, and you could pound the crap out of them and check them with a dial gauge ( Still have the setup for checking them up the back I found the other week) and put the things back in and all good. I once bought a new Briggs for a ride on I was repairing and pulled the thing apart before starting it. I knew what they were like. The Inlet and exhaust ports were 3/$ Inch and both had so much casting flash on this engine you couldn't stick a pencil in there. Unsurprisingly the bore and the piston were out of spec ( nothing unusual) and a call to the Briggs rep had new replacements that had been checked delivered. Lapped the valves and got the head flat put it back together and it ran like it should have. The Chyneese motors started coming in and were much cheaper than the Honda's. Mate bought one cheap from a distributor as a promo to get him to stock them and pulled the engine down. Straight off he said they have improved some things over the Hondas. He started stocking them and had no trouble. Even back then the Chyneese engines had it all over the Briggs which in standard engines were still running alloy bores and no bearings. The chynaah engines had huge roller bearings, pressure lube on the larger sizes and were just a better proposition. Of course they have always been a 3rd of the price or less of a Honda and there is no way a Honda, good as they are, will outlast 3 Chynaah engines given the same workload and maintence. I think you will find Tony with Minimal maintence your Chynaah Briggs will give very good and problem free service. Like all engines, I'd do the first Oil change at like 5 Hours. If you drain it into something like an Ice cream container you'll be amazed at the glitter in the bottom. I do that on all new engines. Dads New tractor was supposed to have it's first oil change at 120 hours I think it was. We did it at 30 and Dad said I think we should have done it sooner and that's an engine with a relatively large Filter. They shed a LOT of material when they bed in and the first hours of use are the most critical. Chyneese Made Victa. Just another erosion and erasure of the Australian culture and History. Fortunately YT has some of the old ads to remind us what these things once were. Plenty more but here are a few. Old victa Ad ad 2 Ad 3 80's ad |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
My previous mower has a Briggs, and the piston rings seem to have just worn out. It runs, but very quickly oils the plug to the point that a freshly cleaned plug only lasts a few minutes. Always starts first kick, plenty of power, it just eats oil. Pulled the head, the bore looks perfect, which is not at all what I expected. When the weather gets a bit warmer (out in the shed) I will pull the whole engine down and have a much closer look. I believe Briggs started using three very thin compression rings, which quickly wear out, and no proper oil control ring. That is my current theory anyway. Maybe just new rings and a quick hone will get it going again. This new Briggs has overhead valves !! which I never knew Briggs did. So going on what you have just said, there may be some other good stuff in there as well. I may be able to adapt a decent set of motorcycle rings to the old Briggs piston. I can machine the oil ring groove a bit wider if necessary myself, to fit a properly designed ring set that uses a REAL three piece oil control ring. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Check on Fleabay Tony if you want original spec rings. They do a lot of aftermarket parts now quite Cheap. I have bought New Carbs for both my fathers Rideons and they were like $24 can came with gaskets, hose clamps and a Filter. The OEM one from the John Deere dealer was over $500 Laughable dollars. I used to hone out the Victa engines when I hotted them up and used fileback rings which was a trick from the 2 stroke racing days. Piston clearance isn't that important on the wide side and I'd hone them out to whatever and then use a ring size Bigger than just file it back till I got the clearances I wanted. Briggs and everyone else has been doing OHV for a while now. Honda was doing it then the Chyneese and then Briggs had to follow as they were getting left behind and I suspect the emissions you mentioned had something to do with it too probably. Motorcross Bikes have gone from 2 Stroke to screaming 4 strokes for emissions. They have tiny thin rings as well and they are supposed to be replaced like every 20 Hours or something. Mates son had one some years back and was telling me. Couldn't believe it. They rev hard as the old 2 strokes did but the rings were the thinnest I have ever seen. No wonder they wear. If yours has worn the rings it must be one of the later side valves that has the cast iron sleeve. The old ones with the Aluminium bore wore the other way. The bearing area which was also the aluminium casing would wear to the point you couldn't start them because the slop go so great the Crank wobble made setting the points impossible. You could start them with a Drill as when you got them going fast enough they centered better but they were still toast. One thing I have done for as long as I can remember when rebuilding engines is put a 1-2MM chamfer on the piston Skirt. It was a trick with racing 2 strokes to allow the oil film to get between the piston and the bore instead of being scraped off by the sharp edge and making a high pressure point on the bore as well especialy on the thrust side. I have done it with 4 strokes as well and found it allows the engines ( particularly ones flogged hard) to have much less wear than would be otherwise expected. The other thing with 2 stroke mowers was to ALWAYS use Motorcycle 2 stroke and prefrable something for Racing or Motorcross Bikes. I used Victas when I had my Mowing run and I'd flog the things for 3 years, Pull them down and the crosshatch was still in the bore. Always put that down to the chamfer on the skirt and using good quality oil. 4 strokes I always use car grade oil not the crap sold for mowers. That is much higher spec with a lot more additives than the cheap Grade ( but High priced) mower oil. You can run any Multigrade. It is so much better than more oil it does not matter. It would be interesting to see how the Bigger rings went. You may also be able to get a piston from another Briggs engine with the same bore that has the larger rings. If you want to wake the old girl Up, you can shave the head a LOT and just cut pockets for the Valves. There will be a lip on the head and you can skim half of that without thinking. Lap and check the valves and give the ports a clean out with a die Grinder as well. If you are keen and depending on the engine, you can slot out the coil plate and give them a big more advance. Some you can do it with, some bolt to the side of the flywheel and are fixed. If it has points, throw them away with the condensor and get one of those little Igniters. They connect where the points went and are infinitely better. I used to fit them to all the Victas I rebuilt and they make for much better starting and running. If you do the ring Modification be sure to post up some pictures. would be very interesting to see. If you are interested in how they Hot these things up ( newer OHV's at least) Have a look at a site called gopowersports. They ( and others) hot up the Chyneese engines and get 20 Hp+ out of the 212 CC 6.5 Hp engines. They are pretty worked by that stage but still interesting how they can get so much more out of these things. I used to get 12 Hp out of the 160cc Victas which was around 3x+ the standard power and thought that was good but things have got to another level. That said, Everything I used was stock bar the 24Mm Mikuni carb where they pretty much open up and engine and empty it over a bin now but still...  |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I did look on e-bay, but there are so many different rings and part numbers and bore sizes that have changed over the years. I thought I would leave it until I pull the thing apart and measure everything up exactly. Yes, this appears to have the cast iron bore, dead smooth, absolutely zero ridge. Hardly surprising, its had plenty of lubrication ! A new set of original rings might be the way to go first. Definitely agree buy oversized rings and file them back to suit. Will put an overhaul kit into the carb as well, while its off the engine. Should all be pretty straightforward. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
All this engine talk inspired me to do something I have been wanting to do for a while this afternoon, Fire up my Biggest stationary Diesel, The 30 Hp twin Cyl Ruggerini. Got the lawns and edging done to win the favour of she indoors, the supreme ruler of my Universe, head of Finance and chief cook and Bottle washer and then got it out. Lifted it off the moving dolly it had bowed like a Banana with the tractor and screwed it to some 4x2"s that extended wide so the thing wouldn't kick itself over. Primed and Cranked it but wouldn't fire so a Quick bleed of the injector pump and it lit right up. Man this thing either has some compression or some advanced timing. The clatter from the twin Cylinders when it lights off is like a hammer hitting a steel plate. The intake and exhaust is nothing to the sound of ignition. It's an air cooled unfortunately so that does not help with the noise. At steady RPM it's much quieter but that's unloaded. I imagine when it was working the clatter would be significant and Non stop. Might be a lot better on Veg oil though as that lights off slower and has the effect of retarded Timing. Might give that a go tomorrow. It is a very Nice smooth runner and purrs like a kitten at idle. Not sure what I'll do with it. It would be good for re-powering a farm vehicle or Implement but then you have to make up some sort of bell housing or adapter plate for the thing. I was thinking of putting it on the flail mower but that's belt drive and I think this thing would smoke the belts no problem. Could go chain but what breaks then? It's just begging for a little AMR blower or an RB31 Turbo. I can't find much info on it to see what the flywheel bolt pattern is. Might have to stick some cardboard to it and tap with a hammer to make a template and then get a plate and spigot shaft made up at an engineering shop. That done, still too loud to drive one of my gen heads and sound proofing an aircooled would be a lot of work. That said I saw a vid yesterday where the guy made a 3 layer Box with each layer with a gap to the other so the airflow zip zagged in and there was no direct path to the engine. I could not see how the air exited however but it was not the same way. This engine was on a fire pump in a building and like them all, was only ever test/ maintence run so only has about 120 Hours on it. They are replaced on a time scale unless they are actually needed then if they are, they also have to be replaced after one use. I might see if I can sell it and put the money toward a 3 Cyl Kubota if I can find one. Saw one the other week but it was only a little 482 12 Hp and a bit small for my needs and not cheap either. Amazes me how hard stationary Diesels not of the Chyneese Knock off Yanmar type are to get. |
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Trev Guru Joined: 15/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 640 |
Its amazing how something simple can take it off topic ......... I used some 48v (60v full) petrol battery chargers as range extender / back up plan when the public charge outlets don't work. See http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?TID=5991&P=3 about half way down posted 4 Sep 2019. These were fairly ordinary. Advertised as 80A charge rate, but could only do 60A. After one trip with those petrol battery chargers, I sold them and went back to the Honda 8KVA. See pictures further down the page in the link. I have since bought another 3 x 48v (60v full) petrol battery chargers. Not posted in my EV Hilux thread yet. These are good. Advertised to be 60A charge rate and they do 60A charge rate. Much quieter than the first set too. Made a good alloy box to house them with removable doors front, back and top. They have been reliable so far.  Edited 2021-10-27 13:38 by Trev Trev @ drivebynature.com |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Chyneese made. Why am I not surprised. Whats different about these ones? Later generation, different brand, different setup? Do you have a link to these improved versions?] |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Hey Dave, Have had my shiny new Chinese Victor lawnmower for about six weeks, it runs great. Thought it was about time for its very first oil change. The Chinese somehow forgot to fit an oil drain plug, there is no obvious way to get the old oil out. I did notice in the book of words there was NOTHING about oil change interval or how to do it. Bugger............ Cheers, Tony. |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2135 |
Could there be a drain plug on the underside, perhaps obscured by the cutter disc? Otherwise you can make a suction bottle and suck it out the filler hole. Two pieces of rubber tube pushed into tight holes in the lid of any suitable container. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Sump plate is as smooth as a babies bum, definitely no drain plug. I could probably hang the whole thing upside down and drain it through the crankcase breather, I will look at that option. Or as you suggest, a better way might be a suction tube down the dipstick hole. I might be able to do something sneaky with an old power steering pump and an electric motor. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Well I am not surprised on 2 fronts really. An oil drain may have pushed up manufacturing costs north of .10 cents, maybe even 20. In chyneese manufacturing terms, that's like a $1000 to us. Secondly, I can't really say I blame them. I reckon the amount of people that change the oil in their mowers would be lucky to be a few percent. Most people are lucky to check it at all. Neighbour asked me to service her mower maybe couple of months back. Dipped the oil and the stick came out dry!! Leaned it over and got some black goop the consistency of honey. Glad I didn't test run it before checking it although it would to have been in that condition last time she did. I put a good amount of diesel in it, pulled it over to wash it around a bit and then just turned the whole thing over on its side and drained it that way. Did it a second time because I wasn't happy it was clean the first and it wasn't. TBH, I didn't even look for a drain plug. Just up ended the thing and did it that way. Comes out the filler hole well as it goes in. I think you must be like me Tony. I never let a first oil change go till the time they say. I always do it well before. Every new engine I have changed at half first time or whatever has always had a load of glittering metal in the pan and that's why I do it early. I have to say I have NEVER seen a handbook where no oil change was specified. I wonder how that would go with consumer law? Do trhey even say to check it? If not seems you would have a good grounds if you siezed the thing and they said nothing about checking or changing. I did Dads little Tractor the other week. First change is scheduled for 200 hours. Pigs arse! Had 51 on it and I was thinking I should have done it before that. As totally expected, there was a lot of glitter in the drain pan I cleaned before I dropped the oil and this is with an engine that obviously has a filter and a pretty good one for the engine size at that. My dad was panning for gold in the dumped oil admiring the metal and said how far over did we let this get? I said quarter way. He said what you mean quarter way into the next change?? I said it's got 51 and the first service is supposed to be 200, quarter the time they say to do it. He expressed his relief in colourful terms we didn't let it go that long. We did get a bit lucky, Supercreep had a special on Diesel oil so we got 20L ea. My tractor is due for a change as well.... least by my standards if not the manufacturers. It's done 100 hours since the last one so that's enough in my book. Will work out well. I always do maintence on things in the Christmas new year period. It's easy to remember and there is always time to do it and go though everything. Do annual servicing on the cars, mowers and whatever else. I think my father did let the oil go a bit long in the big tractor. I Changed the gearbox oil for the first time since he got it, a mere 36 Years ago!! It was very clean and not much metal in it but I'm sure it had seen better days. He said it was a lot quieter after I finished and it had all the oil not just 3/4 which probably helped as well. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Funny enough, all the horizontal crank engines have 2 Fillers and usually 2 Drain plugs. An Old JD rideon I have actually has an extension out the drain plug so you can get a pan under the oil rather than it slop all over the frame. My 4.2 Diesel patrol has 2 large oil filters mounted perfectly horizontal so when you change the oil you also rust proof the cross member, the steering rack and the engine mount and of course it will continue to drip for days no matter how well you wipe it. Oil change for that Includes a large flattened cardboard box to put under it and a tin of degreaser to wash it down afterwards along with the normal essentials like oil and filters. Thing takes 12 L with filters and a few times I have been stopped buying specials that are 2 per customer limit. When I explain that is not enough, some retort asking what I have. The amateurs go look it up and come back educated and the educated ones know and go yeah fine straight off. Never been stopped getting 3 containers so far. |
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| Solar Mike Guru Joined: 08/02/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 1138 |
It will be there, just not what you are expecting, look for a horizontal capped bolt low down on the side of the engine crankcase. Mike |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Just had another look. It can only be at the lowest part of the engine casting, and there is nothing there. Cheers, Tony. |
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