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BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 06:49pm 13 Apr 2019
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The ones on the right and the ones on the left are 3000va out of APC smart 3000 UPS
All of these Transformers are incredibly heavy you would not believe how heavy these APC Transformers are if I had to guess I would guess 40 to 50 lb but don't quote me on that
And the center ones even heavier I'm not sure what the one in the center was originally for you can plug it into the wall and leave it for days and it does not even get slightly warm with my clamp meter the no load current when plugged into the wall was .07
The apc Transformers can be took apart and stacked in any way that you wanted
The Old Wire that is on the center one will be taken off
new wire will be used even though this wire that's on it has no problems at the moment
it's been setting out in a building and has gotten very dirty
If necessary one could stack and build 1 out of two or any other combination
I am hoping that some of the more experienced people on this form will comment on these Transformers for warpspeed inverter The Good The Bad and The Ugly lolEdited by BenandAmber 2019-04-15be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 09:42am 14 Apr 2019
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A few jobs for you;
1. measure the cross section area of the center leg (the one under the coil) of the core, in sq mm preferably so it makes sense non US persons . Write that down and report here also.
2. take the transformers apart, by that I mean remove the brackets and unleaven the E-I laminations so the coil can be taken out in one piece. If you cannot undo the laminations (because they are laquered or stuck together too firmly) then you cannot use that transformer. Keep those laminations separate for each transformer so they can be re assembled to the same thickness.
3. if the existing coil wire comes off very easily without damage to the enamel coating then take it off. Straighten the wire gently by the methods you had read about on this forum.
4. if there is a sound bobbin under the wire, save that for your re wind job.
BTW, that post should have been in the electronics section. Perhaps under a new topic like: B&A warpinverter build Klaus
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 10:24pm 14 Apr 2019
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It looks like the higher voltage 230v winding is on the inside. It may only require the outer winding to be modified or replaced. The low idling current is ideal and the 3Kva rating perfect too.
What voltage are you measuring across primary and secondary when plugged into the mains ? Cheers, Tony.
BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 05:26pm 15 Apr 2019
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The bottom wire of the large Transformer is damaged
even though it still works it' pretty dangerous
the upper two seemed to be in good shape the upper two are hooked together and work as the primary
all three of the sets of wire are independent of each other but connect on connectors on the front of the Transformer
I'm not sure you guys know a lot more about this to me but I think it will have to be totally rewound
The new rewind would be instead of three separated windings
the primary on bottom taking up the whole I
then the secondary on top of that of course I could be wrong you guys know a lot more about this to me
The other 4 Transformers are APC UPS Transformers so I think they will be high quality also
All 4 of them are exactly the same as far as I can tellEdited by BenandAmber 2019-04-17be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 10:27pm 15 Apr 2019
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[quote]The ones on the right and the ones on the left are 3000va out of APC smart 3000 UPS[/quote]
Only guessing here, but the only reason I can think of why the 3Kva UPS might use two transformers is that each one has a 110v secondary winding. Two 1.5Kva transformers are going to be easier to package than one larger 3Kva transformer.
Anyhow you could probably use two of those in series to generate 225v at 3Kva. And a third transformer for 75v by just adding extra primary turns to reduce the output voltage.Cheers, Tony.
BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 03:24am 18 Apr 2019
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We really have these Transformers in mind for a friend
I did try to take the big one apart and the laminations don't seem to want to come apart
I didn't want to bend them I've always just wound them like you wind a toroid
I've never tried it with anything other than a battery charger or something very simple that way may not work well for an inverter I have no clue
I did hook one of the four Transformers to Mains voltage
think if I remember correctly around 13 volts came out
the Lowe's sod are hooked in series I think that would be around 26 volt
the APC they came out of used a 48 volt battery pack
there are more than one inputs on the high side of these for Transformers I don't know if they were put there for different voltages or what
the side with the plugs is the high side both of these plugged into the PCB board I still have the board
I think they have that many wires for either different voltages or voltage sag from the grid
Thank you for your time I appreciate your commentsEdited by BenandAmber 2019-04-19be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 03:54am 18 Apr 2019
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Me and Amber have made a homemade toroidal core
out of pretty easily scrounged up materials
For poor people like us that can't afford to buy a high-dollar toroidal core
we're getting ready to try out pretty soon I will let all you guys know how it goes
We also make our own liquid rosin it is the best rosin I have ever used smells really good also
it is made out of dried up pine sap and alcohol
it doesn't burn away like normal rosin and it don't Clump up like lard when you clean up a board Epoxied baked in the oven and taped ready to wind wire This is the Silicon still wrapped around a sewer pipe while we was taking a break I wrapped copper wire around it so it didn't spring out like a Big Spring if you've ever rewind the spring in a small engines pull start then you'll know what I meanEdited by BenandAmber 2019-04-19be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 04:29am 18 Apr 2019
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I'm not the best at measuring stuff but this is pretty close
The lacquer on the wires are not the best even though it has no shorts right now but the wire will most likely have to be replaced
I'm not sure how to put something in the electronics section maybe I just got lucky so far
I just go to the bottom of the page where it says start new post the click on that sorry that it's in the wrong place
And I appreciate all of your help tinker I'm hoping these Transformers will be good for another friend we have on here
It would really make me and my wife happy if this other person would be able to use these Transformers
when I get a chance I'll do the other four that are identical to each otherEdited by BenandAmber 2019-04-19be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
LadyN Guru Joined: 26/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 408
Posted: 05:05pm 18 Apr 2019
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How are you sourcing the Silicon Steel for the core?
PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 651
Posted: 12:55pm 25 Apr 2019
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Good evening All.
My only experience with a UPS was one rated at a few hundred watts not 3000 however, while looking at it I realized that the transformer was not good for anything like hundreds of watts. It was probably only good for 50 to 100 watts and that started me thinking (a painful experience at my age). The trick is, a UPS is only going to provide output power for a few minutes and then the battery is flat. The transformer is designed to do that and no more so if you try to run one for a long time it will burst into flames. I hope this helps.
Peter
LadyN Guru Joined: 26/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 408
Posted: 04:58pm 25 Apr 2019
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Peter,
True for consumer level UPS but the EI transformers in the OP were salvaged from 2.2kW+ APC SmartUPS which are configured to run for days without power.
These are truly offline units and always power the load from the battery no matter what. Grid power is used to charge the battery, when available.
These units even have hot swappable batteries if the runtime needs to be extended via anderson connectors. The capacitors inside them are HUGE and they have atleast two large fans to keep the insides cool at all times.
I did extensive research on these units when Ben offered these to me but I would like to wait until he confirms he does not need them for anything at all, in which case I will pick them up in my attempt at the Warpverter.
My search for toroidal cores continue however, which is why I am REALLY curious about sourcing the Silicon Steel for the core, because that would allow me to follow in Ben's footsteps and make the toroidal cores myself instead of spending hours everyday looking for them online.
PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 651
Posted: 11:19pm 25 Apr 2019
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Good Lord! I had no idea such things existed. Thanks.
Peter
p.s. Silicon steel? old jam tins would not do then?
P
Solar Mike Guru Joined: 08/02/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 1138
Posted: 02:20am 26 Apr 2019
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Doesn't the USA have any transformer manufactures anymore, just contact one of them and ask to purchase some core material. Better to get them to make it though, as they will plastic encapsulate the metal so you can wind directly on to it and also anneal the whole device in a high temperature oven for several hours to remove magnetic irregularities.
Can do this here in NZ, not in the USA ??
Cheers Mike
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 10:14am 26 Apr 2019
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And apparently they do not have LF grid tie inverters there either . In such a large country there should be heaps of broken LF inverters and most contain a very neat toroid transformer.
Its what we here in Australia use for our DIY inverters. Cost is usually some beer money to the solar installer who swaps them for new inverters. If no luck in that direction, try places that scrap & recycle electronic parts.
If it was me I'd start looking for that source. As long as the broken inverter is very heavy, take it, no need to open it unless it had a molten case . You get a decent heat sink in the bargain.Klaus
BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961
Posted: 06:02pm 26 Apr 2019
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The cheapest I found is after shipping probably $125 for a 3000w core
And them are some really good ideas renewable mark but I think toroids around here's a lot like hens teeth
The friend I have that owns a recycling center does a couple million dollars a year
it's not a big recycling center but he does do a lot of business
Little under 20 little toroids (200 250 va) are the only one he's found so far for me
it's been about a year-and-a-half now everything that comes into his Center is broke down to smaller components
there's just not very many of them in the US in my part of the country( Mothman country)
I do see them every once in awhile in California on eBay but they are expensive plus over a dollar a pound shipping if not freight shipping
On my 52 pound Transformer the person wanted a big price
I texted him and told him his price was going price
I am on a tight budget and can't afford more than 150 bucks shipping and all I mean no disrespect
Just think of all the stuff you got laying around your house
that if you knew somebody really needed you're probably just give or sell at very low price
Well that goes for Transformers also and we do have a few good people left out there in the world
And if you cant get something like that to work out for you
if you can get your hands on a bunch of little ones you can take them apart and build a big one
Just my opinion Edited by BenandAmber 2019-04-28be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 09:28pm 26 Apr 2019
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At least in Australia it used to be possible to ship packages from railway station to railway station. You need to take it to the nearest railway station, and arrange yourself to have someone pick it up personally from the railway station at the other end. I don't know if this service is still available, but for heavy or bulky items like a bicycle or a car wheel, it was the lowest cost way to send things very long distances.
Cheers, Tony.
LadyN Guru Joined: 26/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 408
Posted: 10:16pm 26 Apr 2019
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I wonder why railway freight is not a thing in the U.S.
The United States is around the same size as Australia so geographical limitations does not seem to be a reason.
Freight in the U.S. is either by airplane or trucks. I really have to clue why railway is not used here!
I don't want my toroid cores delivered in 3 days by air for $500.
I am happy to receive them a month from now for $50 and if we have to drive to a train station 30 miles away to pick them up, that is absolutely fine.
For now, it's cheaper for my brother to fly roundtrip and pick up toroid cores from Buffalo NY in person, than is to ship them from there to here. Then there is the cost of the cores themselves.
Every company that still makes toroids in the U.S. think I am a big operation company with deep pockets.
One engineer I got to speak to subtly suggested that it would be easier and cheaper for me to buy a working inverter from Amazon from a Chinese seller because the shipping costs itself from their store would cost me as much as a pre-made 5kW Chinese Inverter shipped from China that has a 18 month warranty.
PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 651
Posted: 11:47pm 26 Apr 2019
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Good morning all
One engineer I got to speak to subtly suggested that it would be easier and cheaper for me to buy a working inverter from Amazon from a Chinese seller because the shipping costs itself from their store would cost me as much as a pre-made 5kW Chinese Inverter shipped from China that has a 18 month warranty.
I am coming into this late and ignorant but never mind. The above quote interests me because I can buy a 12 or 24 Volt to 3 kW inverter for about $200. It does not use an expensive, heavy but reliable LF transformer. What an I missing?
I just happen to have one under my feet at this very moment. It worked well for a while and failed in the usual way. It bothers me because I know I could fix it but it would take too long for it's value.
Peter
PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 651
Posted: 12:09am 27 Apr 2019
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Warpspeed.
I don't think railway freight works now because trains don't stop at stations because there are no stations. That might be an over simplification but in the country, stations have been demolished and very long trains just go straight through.
Peter
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 12:10am 27 Apr 2019
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I believe the land mass of Australia is just over 80% that of North America, but you have about twelve times our population.
Our population centres are much further apart than in the US. Long distance interstate passenger rail here is a big thing, much cheaper than flying.
The low cost way to travel around the US appears to be by interstate coach travel, because the point to point distances between cities are less.
Don't really know the situation in California, but it seems you do have a lot of high tech idustry based there, and it may be possible to source a brand new core and just drive out pick it up yourself. It may take all day, and a tank full of gasoline each way, but it still might work out cheaper. Cheers, Tony.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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. Write that down and report here also.
.