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Forum Index : Electronics : PCB software question
| Author | Message | ||||
Linzmeister Newbie  Joined: 28/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2 |
Hi All, I have designed a circuit (solar tracker: 3 Power rails[12, 5, 3.3], PicAxe 40X2, 1307 Clock, EEPROMs, interfacing and 2xserial I/O)in Eagle, and found the board size and 2 layer limit of the free version too restrictive. Currently it is 3 seperate boards and not yet complete. I need to add quite a bit extra. As this was the first progam I trialled and found it to be easy enough to learn (with no prior PCB design experience) I don't want to go back to the beginning with another program. What other comparable applications - of the free variety - can import the work I have already done from eagle to their own file format so that I can at least continue instead of start from scratch? I have looked at many applications and I find that most of them are not as intuitive as Eagle or have different restrictions. Is there another intuitive and less restricted Windows based app readily available ? Regards, Linz |
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powerednut Senior Member  Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
You could buy eagle, which gets rid of the restrictions. I've played with KiCAD briefly and it was pretty easy to use, but the methodology is a bit different. Basically you need to select the footprints for each component before you can make the PCB from it. I found that aspect a little frustrating, though its fine if your using a bunch of components that need a custom footprint anyway. Its open source and pretty well supported. I've also heard DesignSpark is pretty good, but I havn't had a chance to play with it yet. *edit* I'm pretty sure you can import eagle files and libraries into designspark. I think Vasi has tried out lots of different ones. He may be able to give you some more insightful opinions. |
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Bryan1 Guru  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
G'Day Linz, I've tried eagle and gave up pretty quick due to the learning curve and I now use Sprint Layout, OK it isnt free but for a pcb software it doesn't demand a known footprint just to start a pcb design. It is limited to double sided boards but eh how many DIY board makers do 3 layers or more. I used Sprint for years and when I switched to linux I tried out a few and ended up with KiCad. After a few frustrations I got a new shunt regulator board done, ironed on and etched/drilled. After installing Wine I found Sprint Layout worked fine so I've gone back to that and all of my older designs are there so that is a huge bonus. There is a trial version too but no saving or printing but it will let you trial it out just to see just how easy it is to use. Regards Bryan. |
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| Linzmeister Newbie Joined: 28/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2 |
Hi, Thanks guys. Powerednut Design spark may be an option. In this instance Bryan, I actually do want a 4 layer board just to simplify the power rails into planes and as a side effect to provide a good ground plane. No I will not attempt to make it myself - I will have to export Gerber files and send them to a PCB company. more later. |
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| JakeStew Newbie Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 11 |
Design Spark is OK, but you'll probably end up doing the layouts in Eagle and importing them. The DS board layout is crap, it will take you forever. If the eagle limitations are causing you problems you're probably doing something really wrong and should look into that. Very few things should be done on large boards anymore and if you need more than two layers you're not a hobby user. My suggestions are to switch to SMT if you're not already using it, and don't be afraid to use jumper wires if the layer limitations are causing you problems. The larger SMT part sizes are easy to work with and plenty of manufacturers use jumper wires rather than waste dev time trying to figure out a design that avoids them. -Jake |
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muddy0409 Senior Member Joined: 15/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 125 |
Hi Linz, Well I grew up on PROTEL, which unfortunately is not free. Recently I have had pretty good success with EXPRESS PCB which is restricted to double sided. It is free. It also contains a seperate Schematic drawing program, which is nice. I am rapidly becoming a big fan of this program. It's not perfect, but it is damn good. Very large library of footprints and pretty easy to make your own new ones. The main advantage I have found over protel is that Express will run on my laptop, on Win7 64 bit, which the protel wouldn't. My manufacturing people also handle Express and have in fact just delivered my first board. Looks pretty nice. All the best, Don't poo poo conspiracy theories. Remember that everything ever discovered started somewhere as a theory. |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Hi muddy, I also use Express and have become reasonable proficient with it. But I do etch my own boards - all single sided so far - which can be a messy process. I was not aware that one can take an Express PCB file and have the board commercially done, certainly the way to go with double sided boards. So, did I understand you right, you just took the PCB file to the manufacturers or is there some extra file conversion required? Where was that job done? Klaus |
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| muddy0409 Senior Member Joined: 15/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 125 |
HI tinker. I get my boards done by Futurlec (www.futurlec.com.au) I just send then the Express file as it is saved (xxxxx.pcb) and they do the job. Pretty cheap, just had 4 Arduino size shields done Double sided, all up including delivery, from Thailand, at $ 45.00. Their website is pretty self explainary, even has a price calculator. BUT they are not really the fastest, usually 3 weeks or so, but not generally a problem. I tend to like Express a little bit more every time I use it. Only a couple of things I don't like, but what the hell, it works, and the price was right. Don't poo poo conspiracy theories. Remember that everything ever discovered started somewhere as a theory. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Hi Muddy, That is good news about express pcb. could save a lot of drilling here. BTW I have written a programme (long ago in Pascal) to convert the express pcb dxf file to a G-Code file to drive the CNC pcb driller that downwind built. It made drilling multiple boards a breeze. Probably should rewrite the pascal version to a VB version - GUI a bit easier to drive than the old Dos menu system. david m. David M. |
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| muddy0409 Senior Member Joined: 15/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 125 |
Oh wow, I would pay money for a program that gets G-code from Express files. Anything I want to mill I have to re-do into my old protel on another PC and use the gerber files to generate the g-code. Pretty time consuming. Gotta actually put the gerbers through another program to get the g-code to then go into the milling program. Put that stubby down and start working..... 
Don't poo poo conspiracy theories. Remember that everything ever discovered started somewhere as a theory. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Hi Muddy, I've put my old pascal pcb gcode exe file in the attached zip. Remember it only works with arrows and enter etc - mouse didn't exist in old turbo pascal last century some time. It is a good idea to copy the exe file to the same folder as your express pcb application and pcb files, that way you won't have to do elaborate directory changes to find the files. (files are in old dos 8 digit) Export the pcb to dxf (in express pcb)and then, in files menu,(my pcbdrill routine) select the dxf file and then back in the main menu select 'D' to decode. See how you go. David M PS, this programme is a bit messy because it was originally my pic assembler and programmer that I wrote when my hair wasn't grey. It was convenient to use the same menus etc. 2012-12-04_031528_pcb_g_code.zip David M. |
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graynomad Senior Member Joined: 21/07/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 122 |
[quote]run on my laptop, on Win7 64 bit, which the protel wouldn't. [/quote] Is that because it's the original DOS protel? ______ Rob Rob Gray, AKA the Graynomad, www.robgray.com |
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| muddy0409 Senior Member Joined: 15/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 125 |
No it's not the old dos version. (easytrax or Autotrax) It's Advanced PCB 2.8 (I think) and works fine on XP. Works fine on everything I ran it on over the last 6 years or so, but just wouldn't instal on the laptop. Gives a message that it is the wrong version of windows, or something like that. I finally gave up trying. Don't poo poo conspiracy theories. Remember that everything ever discovered started somewhere as a theory. |
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| powerednut Senior Member Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
You could install virtualbox on your laptop, and then install Protel on an virtual xp install in virtualbox. If you can be stuffed going to that much trouble. |
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