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Forum Index : Electronics : Ultra Capacitors "Boost-Caps"
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MrDelanco Senior Member  Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
I use the cycloturbine to generate the motion to run the 1st alt-generator. From the 1st Alt-Generator the output goes into a bank of four(4) full bridge rectifiers. I rectify the voltage and charge a Maxwell ultra capacitor bank setup to 24 volts. From this I enter the charge controllers that charge three banks of 24 volt wet-cell forklift batteries. From this battery bank I use a bank of Maxwell ultra capacitors to run a 2nd Motor-Generator-Flywheel pma that charges a bank of 36 Maxwell ultra capacitors "Boostcaps" before entering the charge controllers that charge another battery bank of seven(7) 12 volt forklift gel-cell batteries. From the 12 volt batteries I use another bank of 36 Maxwell ultra capacitors "Boostcaps" before entering the inverters that are used to power the house. Each Maxwell ultra capacitor is 2.5 volts 2600f at 8000 joules, there are 6 banks with 6 caps in each bank to build a voltage of 15vdc. This gives the bank of three(3)10,000 watt inverters a stable current input to handle multiple start-up loads and places less of a strain on the battery cells. There are two(2) more 6,000 watt inverters that run my lab and workshop. and another 6,000 watt inverter to run the computer rack. To keep the Maxwell ultra capacitors "Boostcaps" from charging over 2.5 volts in the center of the stack, I built a charge equalization circuit for each row in each bank. Ultra Capacitor video 
Here is a block layout of the system. 
MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| davef Guru  Joined: 14/05/2006 Location: New ZealandPosts: 499 |
One question: Why the conversion from 24V to 12V? Thanks, Dave |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Hello Dave F; I was only able to obtain 12vdc-120vac 10,000/20,000 watt inverters that were not working from the recycling center, I repaired them to working order. The Mosfets were burned up and a few resistors from a lighting strike so I repaired them and used them. There did turn out to be a plus side to this the mill charges the 24vdc bank and that bank supplies a constant current into the 12vdc side, it was also easier to monitor the gel-cell battery bank in smaller units. There are seven(7) banks of gel-cell's made up of 12 cell units in each bank, I separated them to a 12volt setup of 6 cell units in each bank for the 12 volts per rack, this gave me 14 racks at 12vdc and a charge controller is on each rack with a charge equalizer for each ultra cap stack. I used what was available to me. The other inverters came from the same source. I did have to separate the neutral and feed into separate circuit panels, two inverters can not be joined together. I split the three breaker panels into two units each. I was building a match transformer to tie all into one feed, but one inverter went down and I realized that if they were into one feed i would not be able to just share that load into another inverter. Now if one inverter fails I just switch the load to another inverter with a knife switch and that load is back up and running while I repair the failed inverter. I also installed a 220vac inverter to run my central air and oil filled baseboard electric heaters. Regards Bob. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Bob This is my first-ever post to this area of the 4m as I'm a bit electricity-challenged and with that in mind, my question is: Can I use the electricity stored in one of those huge capacitors (shown in the video) applied across a resistive load, like my toaster, to extract enough current so as to make toast or will shorting the capacitor for a long interval turn everything to toast? 
. . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Did you get your new coat with the extra long sleeves that tie in the back yet? 
Do not click on this Mac. Fun with ultracapacitors!! 
I use the ultra-capacitors to provide strong steady power. By combining ultra-capacitors with a battery-based uninterrupted power supply system, the life of the batteries can be extended by reducing the cycling duty on the battery cells. Cheers Bob MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Mr. D In the back of my mind, I knew there was a reason I never come here. Like I said, I don't understand all I know about electricity. That being said, I'll be on my way now. TTFE . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Mac yes you can use the ultra caps to make toast but you will need about 6 of them and a 12 vdc battery. Don't run away stay and learn about electricity. Regards Bob. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Question: What is an ultracapacitor? An ultracapacitor, or "super-capacitor", stores energy electrostatically by polarizing an electrolytic solution. Though it is an electrochemical device (also known as an electrochemical double-layer capacitor) there are no chemical reactions involved in its energy storage mechanism. This mechanism is highly reversible, allowing the ultracapacitor to be charged and discharged hundreds of thousands of times. An ultracapacitor can be viewed as two non-reactive porous plates suspended within an electrolyte, with a voltage applied across the plates. The applied potential on the positive plate attracts the negative ions in the electrolyte, while the potential on the negative plate attracts the positive ions. This effectively creates two layers of capacitive storage, one where the charges are separated at the positive plate, and another at the negative plate. Maxwell Technologies Knowledge Base cheers Bob MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
An ultracapacitor is different than a battery, and depending on the application, may be a better solution. Often, a combination of the two is the best approach, combining the excellent power performance of the ultracapacitor with the greater energy storage of a battery. An ultracapacitor can be charged to any voltage within its voltage rating, and can be stored totally discharged. Proper system sizing includes accounting for a capacitor's voltage change as it is charged and discharged. A battery operates within a very narrow voltage range, determined by its chemical reactions, and can be permanently damaged if over-discharged. State of charge of an ultracapacitor is simply a function of voltage. State of charge of a battery involves multiple dynamic calculations. An ultracapacitor stores much more energy than a conventional capacitor of similar size. A battery will store much more energy than the same size ultracapacitor. In applications where power determines the size of the energy storage device, an ultracapacitor may be a better solution. The ultracapacitor is able to deliver frequent pulses of energy without any detrimental effects. Many batteries experience reduced life if exposed to frequent high power pulses. An ultracapacitor can be charged extremely quickly. Many batteries are damaged by fast charging. An ultracapacitor can be cycled hundreds of thousands of times. Batteries are capable of only a few hundred cycles. Ultracapacitors from Maxwell are rated at 2.5V each. They can be charged to higher voltages, but it should be noted this would effect the useful life of the product. Maxwell Technologies does not recommend the operation of the ultracapacitors above 2.7V. By applying a low charge into my ultra-cap array I am able to build on the charge to a higher voltage. The charge equalization circuit, balance circuit is a standard design available from several sources, I customized a circuit design to meet my needs. As the cap charges to 2.5 vdc the extra is passed to the next to allow that cap to full charge and so on. By cascading this allows the array to build not only a higher voltage but also increase's in amp's and watt's. Food for thought; Conventional flow from positive to negative is thought, but the actual flow of an electron is from negative to positive. Individual cells are rated to 2.5V each. There is no limit on the number of cells that can be placed in series to attain higher voltages. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
BOOSTCAP ultracapacitors can be discharged extremely quickly. The peak current is limited only by its internal resistance. Inadvertent short circuits are not fatal to the ultracapacitor. The actual limit is dependent on the size of the ultracapacitor cell. For matched loads, small cells can deliver over 10 amps, and large cells in series can deliver over 1000 amps. My power system setup showing most of the sub systems and how the ultra-caps are utilized in the system. 
MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Ultra Cap bank on one inverter. 
Battery Storage MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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WindyMiller Regular Member  Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 62 |
GidDay! I wonder how some of these capacitors would work out with a self excited induction generator? Robert |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Mr Delanco, one thing that does puzzle me with your voltage equalizer circuit is why have you connected the zener diodes the wrong way round? I always have them connected reverse biased to use their designed avalanche region zener effect. Or did you mean just ordinary diodes and forgot to correct your parts description? The way you have them connected they behave like ordinary diodes, perhaps that is why the LED's light up. Most LED's have a higher (than a ordinary diode) forward voltage so with just 2.5V available you might need 2V (depending on the LED colour) of that to light them. Klaus |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
There could be a gain in steady operation of the induction generator, they could be used as the source for excitation of the emf. The circuit could be designed to increase until an equilibrium state is attained with magnetic saturation in the coil's. It will have to be tested, let us know how you make out. Cheers Robert. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| WindyMiller Regular Member Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 62 |
Mr, Delanco, I might test the theory when I can afford to order some caps? They remain pretty expensive right now. The motor run caps I use I get pretty cheap so it is hard to justify the cost right now. I will keep the idea in mind and when I come across some the super caps then I will give it a try. Robert |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Hello Klaus; Nice to hear from you. I do not understand what you meant with this statement, "(depending on the LED colour) of that to light them." the led is on or off. To answer the other parts of your question; As the 1st ultra-cap attains full charge of 2.5 - 3.0 volts the zener diode allows the higher voltage to flow through lighting the led and balancing the charging of the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th ultra-cap's and so on down the line. The led's light when the ultra-cap's is fully charged and the current is moving past them. An ultra-cap will take a fast charge this circuit was designed to move the extra current past the ultra-caps when fully charged and balance the charge in the center of the ultra-cap array. The extra current is channeled right into the charge controller's. Without this balance circuit the ultra-cap array would be in an uneven state of charge. As an ultra-cap's charge is used or drops below the 2.5 volts the led will turn off and build up the charge to balance the voltage in the under charged ultra-cap in the ultra-cap array, this happens very quickly and a visual scan of the panel shows what state of charge the ultra-cap array is in, when a load is being drawn the center section is blinking off and on as the charge in the ultra-cap array is balanced and in a ready state of charge. Regards Robert. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Hi Robert, Maybe you need to read up a little on LED forward voltage drop .
Simply put, assume you had a DC power source that can be increased from zero up and you had connect your LED to that (output set to zero). Now, increase the voltage to the LED slowly until it lights up, that voltage is called the vorward voltage drop. It is different for different LED types and, from memory, the green LED had a considerably higher FVD (forward voltage drop) than a similar size red one. Once your power source has passed the FVD threshold you need to apply current limiting before turning the voltage much higher or the LED will burn out. In your ultra capacitor case the capacitor itself acts like the above mentioned adjustable power source as it starts charging up. I do know how capacitors work BTW. The LED would light once its FVD is reached at, perhaps, 2V. You can increase that level by introducing an additional series diode to give you an extra 0.5V (or 0.2V with a Schottky diode). This is what you appear to have done. But you call this additional diode a zener diode when clearly it is not functioning as such. Zeners are used reverse biased and would not work here as the lowest available zener voltage is too high to be useful in that application. So, to make me happy and your circuit correct simply replace the word "zener diode" with the word 'diode', leaving the circuit as is. As to your statement "designed to move extra current past the ultracaps", this sounds a bit joking as the LED requires perhaps 15mA to light up nicely and trying to pass much more than that destroys it quickly. So, the tens or perhaps hundreds of Amps arriving at the cap would *never* get "bypassed" through the LED. All it does is indicate when the ultra cap has reached a certain terminal voltage - this also being an indication of the state of charge. There *has* to be a separate means to limit the charging terminal voltage to the cap bank - a battery bank would do that nicely. I know its nit picking but you came across as someone who knows this stuff and that slip puts a dent in that image . Klaus |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Hello Klaus; You are not understanding the circuit design correctly. The circuit works in my system as it is designed too balance the Ultra-capacitor. An Ultra-cap is not the standard capacitor, and the zener diode is only allowing an over-flow of trickle voltage above 2.5 volts to pass and balance the Ultra-capacitor array, any other current is channeled through the ultra-capacitor's and passed down the line. The circuit is operating on one side of the line only. Hope you didn't burn out too many led's or standard capacitor's. I am not changing the circuit to make you happy, The circuit works as it is designed. Don't be unhappy. I have posted the information about the ultra-capacitor's. There is a subsystem not shown before the ultra-capacitor's which regulates and limits the input voltage to the array. This post was about the 2.5 volt ultra-capacitor's ability to enhance a wind system electrical output in low winds. Individual cells are rated to 2.5V each. There is no limit on the number of cells that can be placed in series to attain higher voltages using a 2.5 volt charge. Ultra-capacitors from Maxwell are rated at 2.5V each. They can be charged to higher voltages, but it should be noted this would effect the useful life of the product. Maxwell Technologies does not recommend the operation of the ultracapacitors above 2.7V. This circuit diagram was shown as a passive equalization balance circuit for the Ultra-capacitor. With 2.5 volt zener diode's . Regards Robert MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Klaus you posted this in the wind forum under Recycled Items used to generate power Page #3 It should be seen here in this posting also. Cheers Robert. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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| MrDelanco Senior Member Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Source; Maxwell Technologies Knowledge Base Question: Can you explain the differences between an ultra-capacitor and a conventional capacitor? Answer: Capacitors store energy in the form of separated electrical charge. The greater the area for storing charge, and the closer the separated charges, the greater the capacitance. A conventional capacitor gets its area from plates of a flat, conductive material. To achieve high capacitance, this material can be wound in great lengths, and can sometimes have a texture imprinted on it to increase its surface area. A conventional capacitor separates its charged plates with a dielectric material, sometimes a plastic or paper film, or a ceramic. These dielectrics can be made only as thin as the available films or applied materials. An ultra-capacitor gets its area from a porous carbon-based electrode material. The porous structure of this material allows its surface area to approach 2000 square meters per gram, much greater than can be accomplished using flat or textured films and plates. An ultra-capacitor's charge separation distance is determined by the size of the ions in the electrolyte, which are attracted to the charged electrode. This charge separation (less than 10 angstroms) is much smaller than can be accomplished using conventional dielectric materials. The combination of enormous surface area and extremely small charge separation gives the ultra-capacitor its outstanding capacitance relative to conventional capacitors. Question: Why are BOOSTCAP ultra-capacitors different from other ultra-capacitors? Answer: An ultra-capacitor with low resistance is a prerequisite for the high power capabilities required in many of today's applications. Maxwell Technologies uses proprietary processes in the manufacture of our ultracapacitors which provides an equivalent series resistance (ESR) significantly lower than any other ultra-capacitor. The low ESR of BOOSTCAP ultra-capacitors means greater power capability for high rate charging and discharging. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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