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Forum Index : Electronics : home made PCB’s
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Tinker Guru  Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Is there a trick to the press-n-peel iron on PCB transfer film? I bought this to make a one off single side PCB. The instructions say to photocopy the PCB image onto the dull side of press-n-peel blue. Should be easy enough 
Not so, my printer (HP Photosmart C7180) just spits the blue transfer film out straight away and then commences to copy the artwork onto the A4 paper that was below the film in the tray. I tried various paper type settings to no avail. Perhaps somebody has worked out the trick with copying onto this blue transfer film? I really would appreciate some useful hints. Klaus |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Klaus Sounds like the printer is rejecting the transfer film. If the film was in the paper tray, the printer will pick it up and feed it into the rollers. If the printer felt it didn't pick up correctly, ie, it took too long to get to the roller, the printer will reject it because it thinks its not lined up correctly to print the top of the page. Have you tried loading in two sheets of the film, so if it rejects the first one, it might print the 2nd one, like it did with the A4. Also, some printers have a slot for feeding in envelopes, maybe try feeding the film in there. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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powerednut Senior Member  Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
I've used that stuff a fair bit and like it. I havn't had any problems printing on it with lexmark laser printers or with konica photocopiers. I normally use the envelope feeder tray. You could try setting the printer paper settings to "overhead transparency" - that might help. |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
I had no end of troubles with the over priced PnP and when my UV resist didnt work I looked at a brochure on salvation jane and thought whynot give it a try. Where my laser printer wont do a dark enough image on transparencies it printed nice and black on the brochure. I ironed it on until the pcb image was showing thru the other side then put the pcb in cold water for 10 minutes. As the water seeped thru the paper it was easy to get 90% off and leaving the pcb in the water for a further 5 minutes made for easy rubbing the rest of the paper off. There was a couple of holes on the big traces which I coloured in using a sharpie pen and man was the pcb good after etching. Now I am that impressed with this glossy paper method I do want to offer a swap on my UV boards. I've got 4 off 150x300 single sided and 5 off 100x150mm double sided kinsten boards which I'll do a straight swap for 3 off 300x300mm uncoated single sided pcb boards which is the same surface area. Cheers Bryan |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Thanks guys, the tip about an envelope feeder got me thinking. While the HP printer does not have an envelope feeder I do have an older Epson printer where the paper stack is inserted in a vertical slot at the back. Fired it up and would you believe it worked. I used the premium quality glossy paper setting, fooling the printer to do a photo like printing process. This took heaps longer to print but did produce a very nice PCB trace image on the blue PnP sheet. I guess the iron on process will be the judge how good the image is. I'll be using an infrared thermometer to set the iron to the recommended temperature. Bryan, your glossy brochure method has me intrigued, good that it worked for you but I would never have thought of trying it .
Pete (Downwind) did a nice essay here about PCB making and he has had success with UV sensitized boards. I thought of going down that route but at this stage my PCB requirements are not justifying the setup for that. As it is I still have to make an etching tray agitator. The idea is to have the tray on a board that's hinged and one end can move gently up and down, powered from a crank lever. Should do the trick, I scored a real nice Baldour motor and speed controller out of a junked laminating machine. This lets me use a very slow RPM for the etching tray rocking crank. Klaus |
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Dingdoc Regular Member  Joined: 23/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 76 |
Hi Klaus It appears that you may be trying to use an inkjet printer instead of a laser printer for your toner transfer. If this is the case it definitely will not work. Laser printers use a toner made of very fine plastic particles which can be melted with heat and form and effective etch resist. Most photocopiers work on a similar principle so a good, dark photocopy can also be used. I have used the Pulsar brand tt paper & foil with consistent, excellent results. Have a look here- https://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=38 for some great articles on using this paper and etching the boards. Modifying a laminator to run at about 170 deg c works really well at fusing the toner, as does their brushing method for etching - its so effective & quick that there's no way I would bother with agitating. Also, I have found that toners vary considerably in 're-fuseability' from brand to brand. I recently bought a cheap HP Laserjet P1102w for under $100 and it produces excellent results. It also has a density control enabling me to set the toner density to max (5) for better results. I also use it for most of my printing as it doesn't guzzle ink like most inkjets do when not being used. Hope this info helps Trev |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Hi Trev, Now you got me worried  , just when I thought that I had licked the problem.
So, how do you tell its an inkjet printer or not? The ink cartridge has a gold pattern like a PCB at the business end of my printers. The project is on hold for the moment as I'm going on a sailing trip again. I did not know that laser printers are that cheap, are the toner cartridges for that one also cheap? I'll have a look at that url you posted now. Klaus |
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| Dingdoc Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 76 |
Hi Klaus Inkjet printers generally have cartridges which are physically smaller ( usually only a few cm) than toner cartridges which extend most of the width of the printer. Inkjet cartridges are liquid filled but laser ones are powder filled. Admittedly the cheap laser printers are not quite the bargain they appear to be as the cartridges they come with new are generally only half full and a new 'full' cartridge costs almost the same as a new printer. The upside is that they are supposed to be much more economical on a per sheet basis than inkjet and they don't do repeated head cleans which use up your ink whether you are using it or not like inkjets, especially the multi-function ones. I found that most of my printing requirements were b&w hardcopy where I didn't need colour, so the mono laser suits my needs perfectly with the added bonus of being able to make PC boards conveniently. As for colour photos, it's probably cheaper to get them printed commercially than use an inkjet printer. HP is one of the brands highly recommended by the makers of the Pulsar TT paper for both reliability & toner fuse-ability. I had a Brother laser before and its toner gave poor results. The Pulsar website also has lots of info on this. Anyway, have a good trip & let me know if you need any help when you get back to it. Regards Trev |
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| Dingdoc Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 76 |
Further to the above post, I just finished building the phone line polarity checker from SC and thought it may be of interest to pass on some info on laser printing PC board patterns from .pdf files while its fresh in my mind. I downloaded the pattern for the board from the SC website, but the problem is that these patterns are nearly always 'right way round' but need to be mirror image for toner transfer. I found a simple way around this was to use the HPLIP linux printer driver (fee download) with the HP P1102w laser printer mentioned above (I use Ubuntu linux V10.4 on a fairly old PC). Under the print settings, miscellaneous tab on the drop down menu for the printer is a 'mirror' button which enables printing in mirror image - as simple as that! It does pay to check the other settings before going ahead though, especially the scaling of 100%. I then did a test print on a blank sheet of paper but first put a mark on the first sheet in the tray so it can go back the right way round for the second pass with the tt paper attached. Rather than use a full sheet of tt paper I cut out a piece a little larger than the pc board and stuck it over the test pattern just printed on the sheet of plain paper. I just used a thin smear of white PVA glue along the top edge only and gave it a few minutes to dry - don't use too much or it will cause wrinkling. After printing the backing sheet can just be torn off. I must say I am still very impressed with the whole tt process. Admittedly the board for the phone line polarity checker is pretty basic and I could have just birdsnested the whole project (or used a multimeter!!) but the whole thing only took a couple of hours to build from scratch - I had the leds & resistors in the junk box and pulled the phone socket off an old modem board - easy as. Trev |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
This movie is beautiful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=SHDI18pIv68 Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Thanks Vasi, that was very informative. And timely too as I'm at last ready to have a go at PCB making - I need them now .
But at first I'm committed to the toner transfer method, I don't have the UV light box and laminator at this stage. Klaus |
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| Dingdoc Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 76 |
Hi Klaus Have a look at this site- https://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=superFuse rV2 (I still haven't worked out how to use the "Add Code - URL" button!!) It shows how to mod a cheap ($20) laminator from Officeworks to use as a fuser for toner transfer. As I have probably said before, this method works a treat!! It only involves swapping two components in the laminator - a thermal switch and thermal fuse. Both these are cheap and readily available (Ebay). Trev |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Hi Klaus, If you do have some nice glossy paper around have a go at that method first and try the iron on method. This won't cost anything and if the toner does go on properly just scrub it off and have another go. I find by using a thick hardcover book with a tea towel ontop, then the pcb sits on the towel. I did read on the net the other day a guy tried something different using he iron on method. He used a 6mm diameter steel rod and used the hot iron to roll the rod over the transfer and he did report it was with great results. As it has been ages since I made a board I haven't tried this but I will with my next board. A heap of guys do swear by that pulsar toner paper but it is cheaper than pNp still until one tries the glossy paper method one will never know just how cheap it really is making one's own pcb's. Regards Bryan |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Hi Bryan, Interesting tips there, heating a steel rod roller with an iron to transfer a strip of heat. Perhaps a copper rod might work even better? I have some of each to play with. Its a pity the cheap laminators can only cope with thin materials, 0.6mm max was the spec of a $27,- laminator I saw on ebay. I was not aware of the glossy paper trick, I assume it has to be heat resistant like overhead transparency material? Pulsar toner paper is something new to me, I'll have to look up just what it is. Klaus |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Hi Klaus, I have found with the glossy paper any good heavy paper with that smooth feel and heavy paper weight is the best to use. Try and stay away from images and my thoughts on the roller trick would be make a pouch so the board can neatly sit in the pouch. That way when rolling the pcb will stay put and theres no reason why one couldn't do double sided boards using the pouch/roller method. Bit busy here fixing cars but if I do get a chance I'll have a go at this pouch/roller method and report the results. Regards Bryan |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Success at last, today I etched two PCP's ant they turned out better than expected for a first time trial .
The freshly etched tracks are shiny copper but difficult to photograph all shiny. It was a longish learning curve to get to this stage. I had some PnP paper on hand so I tried that first before trying other media. The laser printed image of my artwork looked well so I went on to the iron on tone transfer to the PCB stage. Dismal failure 
Despite trying several heat settings and 'ironing' times the image would never fully transfer. Then I remember reading about the 'ultrakeet' instructions how to modify a laminator for this job. The original instructions were for a specific laminator but it only did 1/32" max thickness boards - mine is 1/16" single sided. But now ultrakeet mentions a new home laminator and its the cat's meow for this job 
1. Its cheap, <A$20.- at office works 2. it has a spring loaded roller to cope with the thicker board 3. its easy to modify - see instructions on the ultrakeet website - to set it for the higher toner transfer temperature required. 4. only one <A$10 part required to modify the unit (a 160 degC thermostat) Of course, once modified its only good for PCB's
I think it takes all the stuffing about out of the iron tone transfer method. The laminator is a "Lowell A4 Home Laminator model LOOL 280. Only this model has the spring loaded roller suitable for thicker boards I believe. Klaus |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hi Klaus, I'm glad for you. Now, how it looks veroboard comparing to this? Personally, I had success with the iron, only using transparencies. Never tried with glossy paper (to do). I'm looking for a laminator but not in the near future. Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Dingdoc Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 76 |
Hi Klaus Now you're cookin' with gas!! That little laminator looked just the bees knees - I bought one on Wed and have just modified it, but have not tried to make a board with it yet. My mod was a bit rough and ready - 170 deg thermostat instead of the recommended 160 C one and also just lifted the thermal fuse away from the heater bars to try it (won't leave it running un-attended in case it goes up in flames!). Will tidy it up later. I also sanded away some of the guide fins to allow the thicker boards to pass through more easily. I poked a few bare 1/16" boards through it and they came out nice and hot. The only problem I can see is inserting a retreiving tiny boards from the feed slots - may have to tape on a paper or thin card 'leader'. I think I am up to laminator no. 4 with the modding! They all seem to work Ok, even with the thicker PC board as long as it is not too big. They just grunt a bit when it goes through!! This latest Lowell one should be really good though with the sprung roller. Rather amazing with the features on it for just 20 bucks!! Don't forget, the type of toner you use in the laser printer/copier is critical. HPs seem to work well but some of the other brands don't melt and transfer properly, no matter how hot and what method you use. Look forward to seeing more of your results. Trev |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Thanks Trev And Vasi for your comments. Its certainly better than veroboard but after having drilled almost 300 tiny holes into the two boards my aging eyes needed a rest. Just as well I have a nice pedestal drill with an air/relay footswitch which lets me sit on a stool and do the precision drilling looking through a jewellers eye shade magnifier .
Trev, I think you can leave the thermal fuse in place as it was, I traced out the whole circuit of the machine and the fuse in mine was 194 degree C rated. I did replace mine with a 217 degree fuse but on second thoughts could have spared myself this fiddly job. If I were to do tiny board I would laminate them on board strips long enough to pass through the machine. Since it might require several passes pulling the board out on something stuck to it might be like a request for Murphy to assist  .
There appears to be sufficient spacing at the guide fins to let 1/16" boards pass without disturbing the TTP stuck to it. There was a faint groan like noise on the third pass but I don't know where that originated and the laminator still works fine. I bought a cheap samsung B/W laser printer, to be used mainly for this job but am having toner fusion issues when using the Pulsar brand TTP. This is being looked into at the moment. Klaus |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Hi Klaus, Last week I decided to give a SMD board the iron on treatment and it turned out purfect. The board is a breakout board for a MCP79410 SMD RTC chip, onboard is the watch crystal and 2 off 10pf caps also a 1206 0.1uf decoupling cap. 
This is the finished board 
All tested on my breadboard and working nicely. So as you can see a bare bones iron can get good results. What I do is put the board on a hardback book and just iron away for about 4-5 minutes then soak the board in warm water. As the top pic shows one doesn't need to get all the paper off the toner before etching and on purpose I used the one with most paper on etch. Cheers Bryan |
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