 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Electronics : How do you tell if battery is alright?
| Author | Message | ||||
Jaffasoft Senior Member  Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
I got onto these batteries. They grey looking with crew in terminals (thread whole 7ml so wide to screw something in) that the railway line used for something anyway guy wants to sell them for 100 bucks each but how do you know if they are any good? The plate on them has the following information: Type - 1704 12V 94.1 Amp Hrs Ser 177/357 Nom Float 25 Degrees min 2.27 vpc Nom Float 25 Degrees max 2.29 vpc Max Float 14.5 Volts 40.5 KG Warranty till 4- Jan - 2012 Bat Code - A03300505255 |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Jaffa Check the voltage of each battery should be a standing voltage around 13 volts and they all should be even at the same volts, how long have they been out of service? If the standing voltage is below 12 volts or uneven between batteries be careful as they will be sulphating, the warranty isn't any good if they have been mistreated. The price isn't to bad for the weight of the battery if all other voltages are even. Get yourself a desulphator or two depending how many batteries you get and that will keep them in good condition, if you treat them right. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
Not sure how to tell if they are Sulphating as you say! They all look neat and tidy nice clean shiny terminals. They appear to be fully enclosed batteries i didn't have a close look if i can get them open some way. If they can come open maybe can recondition them as i've been reading to flatten them and then ad Epson Salt to the cells and give each one a slow charge. I've got an old car battery charger here that's 2.5 amp and does a pulse charge. Might be just the things for a small cabin solar play around to get started. It's a bit vague as to when these came out of service they are coming from a car wrecking yard where the bloke got them for his mate but now his mate is in Hospital. I'd say not to long ago, on the batteries it says made 2002 recharged 2003. Maybe they we're serviced and charged and government use them to power maybe just a light crossing and they upgrade them every few years for safety rules therefor possibly can just charge them. A new meter just arrived in the mail so i will get out and do a reading on every one as you say and see what is is. What exactly is a Desulphator? I could perhaps get one battery off him to give it a test run in that case what would i do to see if it will recondition? |
||||
Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Jaffa They sound like they might be sealed lead acid gell cells. If there is no obvious way to inspect the inside of the cell, like a screw on cap on a car battery, then dont try to open them! I once read about a guy who found a set of big batteries, and pulled them apart to "flush out the gunk with a garden hose". Turns out they were cadmium cells, not lead acid. Cadmium is highly toxic, and he would have to get the authorities in to remove all the dirt in his back yard! You just cant hose that stuff away! Sulphating is not something you can easily see, its a chemical change in surface of the cell plates, and is usually caused by a flat battery left too long before recharging. A de-sulphator is a device thats spikes the battery with little bursts of high current to try and break off the sulpha atoms. You can buy them from most battery outlets, or contact Trev http://www.thebackshed.com/BasiclyNatural/default.asp. Results may vary, sometimes desulphating may help, sometimes may not. Let us know how you go with your measurements. If you can, take a couple of 12v spot lamps with you, and connect them across the battery while you measure the voltage. If the voltage stays over 12v, your on a winner I think. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi jaffa, it is reasonably easy to tell if a sealed battery is heavily sulphated. If there is any sign of bulging on the sides of the battery, then it is likely to be sulphated. PbSO4 takes up more volume than the lead in the plate, so it bulges the sides. Take a straight edge with you, and if the sides are not flat, you will soon see it. If any cell is suspect, then it is likely others would be as well. There are mixed schools of thought about the success of desulphaters. A battery would need to be very cheap to warrant the effort. Gordon. become more energy aware |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Jaffa I agree with Gordon on his assessment, but have found that they can be seriously sulphated even before bulging is evident. Load testing is the best way to check but not really convenient with this type of purchase as the dates you have given make the batteries old already and I would suspect way out of warranty. Take a risk at scrap value otherwise you you are better off spending your money on some new ones. I have desulphated quite a few batteries with good results but the worse they start at the worse the results, I only would count on it if the batteries are next to no cost to start with. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
Better late then never but i've finally got a progress report on this, but sorry no info on the batteries discussed here though they are still there for sale i just put it off because i didnt have the money to buy them. But this morning i got onto 19, 12Volt regular car batteries so i'm going to make do with them for a while and since they we're only $50 dollars and recondition them. Interesting see how they go!! But they are all coming in at over 12Volts. Any tips of reconditioning appreciated! |
||||
| Alasdair Regular Member  Joined: 12/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 62 |
Hi Jaffa I my experience, buying second or third hand batteries is risky, the future life of an old battery is hard to measure, cell voltage drop under load is probably the best indicator, but the price would best be started at scrap lead value and subtract the inconvenience of having to get rid of them if they are no good. Physical appearance is no indicator, date stamps are worth checking, and that they match, assume the seller has had them on charge, so load them really hard, I use a carbon pile for this, it soon weeds out the tired weak cells. Anyway your stack of car batteries is probably a safer deal, just don't deep discharge them. Car batteries are good for about 30% cyclic discharge before they shorten their lives too much. I get a regular supply for free at the council tip, I take a dead one or two and swap it for any good voltage and 'sparky' ones that usually come up well. I found a marine deep cycle battery once less than one year old and fully charged. Unexplainable stuff goes on. Good luck Alasdair. Amc-elec |
||||
mid north Matt Regular Member Joined: 06/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 58 |
one of my mates owns his own workshop and some of his customer's replace their batteries before they need to for trouble free motoring so try some of those places for cheap scrap value batteries Pt Wakefield Matt |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
I discovered that the vegetable steamer make plenty of distilled water so i'm making a heap of that and think will recondition each one before i begin using them, i guess it won't hurt them. There was a pack of 4 batteries that i noticed after getting home one has a split but they are going strong reading well over 15volts but l'l take one out and rig them up as 36volt and see how they go on the ebike. Gee i think i'm getting hocked on the Tip bought some 50ft long ex aircontioner ducks that will make heater with and bout a foot square, take the insulation out and paint them black since they are 8foot long each and join together that be another interesting project. Unexplained stuff goes on is right. |
||||
| Alasdair Regular Member Joined: 12/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 62 |
Hi Jaffa you sound like your getting my bug, every trip to town is via the tip, luckily I have an understanding wife and a big shed that is a long way from the house. What sort of heater are you planning? Air Geothermal? Solar? Regards Alasdair. Amc-elec |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
I've got lots of sheds and no wife to complain and since the tip is about a kay away as the crow fly's it's man paradise won't go over board though just scout for practical things that's needed and can be used. But had to take home a bike, bird cage and a few other peaces the other day :). Noticed a lot of Trampleens each time so going to use them for tables, all uniformed size and light, strong and don't rust (much) and a large roll-able rabbit cage for lawn mowers. The tables (Trampleens) can hold the Aquaponic containers for growing vegetables so the heater will tie into this as able to solar heat water mass for possibly fish that need warmer water though I'm not sure just toying with ideas. Primarily using them for warming air to go directly into a room to warm it and also any excess can go perhaps into rock in fridges or water, I'm still working it out as i go. Lots to do. |
||||
| Alasdair Regular Member Joined: 12/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 62 |
Hi Jaffa Time is always the problem for me. Another idea you could consider, is making a fridge solar panel. I'm going to make one put over our rainwater tank, so in winter I can add a few degrees to the standing temp and reduce energy for heating the water and take the pain out of washing hands under 1deg water. All tip materials must be used, I have a glass sliding door which fits over a wooden door of same size, and a 50mm frame boxes an airgap between them. Paint inside of wooden door flat black and fit 3 or four fridge evaporator coils inside, all plumbed in parralel to allow easy water flow, I'm running this through a simple heat exchanger (copper pipe) inside the tank with either a solar pump or thermosyphon (whichever works best) and hopefully with a kilowatt or two of solar heat during the day, I may get a couple of extra degrees in the tank. Those fridge coils are great as they are easy to mount, plumb, plentiful, last just about forever, and have heatsinking grids welded in, the only problem is de-gassing the circuit before removal, and flush residual oil from the tube before using it. You could use the heated outlet water to warm anything, underfloor coils or radiator heat exchanger, it's valuable stuff here in southern Tassie, especially in winter. Regards Alasdair. Amc-elec |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
Great idea for the fridges there Alasdair and most probably if can find enough of them with the same size height etc will use as the box to put the duct in and if pateint enough probably get glass to sit on the top and or Suntuf could go well on. Perfect you just solved my "what am i going to box these bloody big ducts in. If can get small bar fridges that size would be just perfect though i don;t see many of these and a little more work joining them. I was convince on using rock to heat air but keep thinking I'd be mad not to use water and if this container moves which one of the goals is to be transportable and relocated and set up anywhere water is always a resource not to difficult to source and rock way to heaving and back breaking to repeat build process. Fridge motor looks impressive i cut one open and seems if i hooked one to a windmill it would pump water. |
||||
| Alasdair Regular Member Joined: 12/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 62 |
They are a work of art, engineered to amazingly fine tolerances and balanced. Problem with water is rust and contaminates, the piston clearance is about a tenth of a thousandth of an inch and doesn't like grit or no oil in the case of water. Another way I've seen, and copied for a friend with a bore, is to use a car aircon compressor (radial piston type) on a wind tower which charged a keg with compressed air, a pressure switch cut in at 100 psi and triggered a solenoid valve to dump the air into another submerged keg which filled via a swing check valve, the sudden air pressure shut swing valve and forced water at 100 psi up pipe to tank, until empty, where cycle starts again. It was a bit slow depending on the wind but few moving parts made it reliable, quiet, and able to push water huge distances uphill. The car compressor was the best option, the guy who developed the one I saw tried many compressors, including clisby v twins, an old refrigeration plant compressor etc, but they all failed for the same reason, running too slow at low windspeed made them run the piston dry, unable to fling oil up the bore as it creeps around. The FOMOCO style aircon compressor bathes the back of the pistons and crank swash plate in a separate oil supply and therefore works from zero revs up. It's a great system for little cost outlay. Amc-elec |
||||
| Jaffasoft Senior Member Joined: 03/11/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 102 |
How much electricity does the car compressor use? could use it for air pumping purposes in Aquaponics for aerating the water though i have got other way that will achieve it sufficiently simply with running the water in. |
||||
| Alasdair Regular Member Joined: 12/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 62 |
The car compressor is v-belt driven with an inbuilt magnetic clutch, which I simply drilled and tapped a hole through with an M5 screw to lock the clutch in. You could direct drive it but the shaft isn't all that big and I don't know how the bearings would stand up. I have built a vacuum pump using one of these units and it used all of a two hp (1.5kw) electric motor running 2:1. You could gear down and use a small DC electric motor, but you may need to play around with ratios for delivery volume and pressure required. They could be driven easily with a small petrol engine or anything really. Regards Alasdair. Amc-elec |
||||
 Print this page |
