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Forum Index : Electronics : Effects of battery charging
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Bub73 Senior Member  Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116 |
Bob and Gordan thanks for replys; The Goodall twin 300 amp hot shot booster that Isaiah is talking about has 4 brush type generators powered by a Kohler engine. I believe it was intended for use on aircraft so I'm unsure of its voltage probably 28 volt or more. We will have to get it running first and I'll try to get some photos maybe of the magic smoke too and start a new thread.... Holiday week end here so it maybe awhile. Bob |
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
HI Gordon I have noticed the same thing with so many systems that it is tragic, the system fails and people say its no good but in fact the fault is with lack of design to maintain the batteries, from the first day they are made batteries start to sulphate and in deep cycle batteries the heavy construction and boost charging helps but it drops a large amount of plate material into the bottom of the battery where it builds up and can short out the cell plates. In lighter automotive and the so called deep cycle batteries made now, there is very little margin for sulphating. While the sulphate is still attached to the plates it can be reconverted into acid but once its in the bottom of the cell or suspended in the gell there is little active reconversion. Any smooth dc charge such as solar panels, there is very little reconversion of sulphate because the voltage needs to be much higher than battery to activate the reconversion of sulfate, so the boil the battery method 32 volt charge on 24 volts actually pops the sulphate of the plate some gets trapped in the separator and stays in the electrically active region { electrons flowing } the rest falls to the bottom and remains as sludge along with some of the plate material, as the active plate material spongy lead ends up in the bottom the capacity of the battery decreases. In batteries with a matrix separator it builds up in the matrix and causes bulging of the cell until it shorts out and goes into self destruct mode. Any smooth voltage fed in to charge a battery will have minimal effect on sulphate. Any battery that is discharged on a regular basis more than 30% is at risk. DC generators do a much better job of desulphating especially if you remove the static suppressors on the brushes. We spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on our batteries and overlook the most important part of the maintainence program, the desulphator. As you mentioned the wild frequency of the wind turbine helps but isn't the whole solution. One of the best battery chargers I have had was a half wave rectifier that hummed and made all sorts of radio interference but it was good to reclaim batteries. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bob Sounds like a good bit of gear but it will have suppressors on it so remove them if you can, to get the full benefit of it you would need to run it for a long time though several weeks at a time and the petrol to do that would cost a fortune, so look seriously at a stay in place desulphator as it will be much cheaper in the long run. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Bub73 Senior Member Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116 |
Bob; I have at least 4 AC desulphator's running now and I'm in the process of laying the circuit out on strip broad for quicker assembly as I usually but them on and leave them for at least a month to see if the battery will respond if it dose I like to leave them on. Self powered seems to get the best results, in cases where I need to trickle charge to keep the battery up I use 2 fast recovery blocking diodes or a snap on ferrite core on the charger leads to keep the pulse from following the leads of the charger or solar panel I use. I also have a 24 volt charger that I wired a relay in line with the positive lead through its own contacts so it buzzes this makes lots of spikes but it needs some more refinements. Bob |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
With a data logger on the circuit i posted a page back, i record a 6 amp plus spike being discharged to the battery, from the desulphator. Although this will vary depending on what inductors are used. I used what i could get my paws on that was close to the circuit details. Pete Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bob Sounds Like I am preaching to the converted here as you have a good handle on what is required, the only thing is to get the maximum effect the frequency needs to be much higher than 120 cycle spiking, this is OK but according to the theory of desulphation you need to get higher frequency pulses to resonate the crystals of sulphate, one of the best units I have seen used a 8 to one pulse voltage and had a sweep frequency driver sweeping from 15 K to 35 K Hz it was quite expensive at the time so it faded from the market, but would be much easier to do now with IC's and modern electronics. The one I had in the 1960's had a tungsten vibrator like the old HF units for welders and a couple of large Vacuum tube valves along with lots of inductors and capacitors and in 1960 cost me $1000 a fortune in those days it was designed for large batteries and it could do from a 2 volt cell to a 110 volt battery. It was tuned manually and had a meter that showed the best pulse absorbsion point for the battery it was doing. It wiped out all radio reception for 50 yards around it. I like your idea of the ferrite on the lead to absorb spike transmissionas long as its not close to the battery as it will absorb some of the energy you are pumping in. With the self powered units I have never had a problem with radiation to other components as the pulse seems to be absorbed into the battery and there isn't any harmonics to speak of. Keep up the good work All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Pete That sounds like a pretty serious pulse, to get a reading like that on the logger, have you put a crow on it to see what the peak instantaneous pulse voltage is at drive frequency. Thinking about it it may be a good project for a picaxe driver to to run one with the sweep frequency to optimize for different battery types, HINT HINT All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
'  ' We had the Goodall Jump Starter running but it looks like the boost side is not coming in.
We will have to look it over a bit there is some electrical problems with the starter so we may have something unhooked. I do have in the barn a very old battery charger that uses the old bulb rectifier. I used this thing about 25 yrs ago but haven't in later yrs but maybe I should get it out. I do have a extra bulb for it.I think It is a G E and you can adjust the voltage etc on it. Ill have to look and refresh the memory. I know it tends to vibrate and at the time and my knowledge at that time it was a bit scary to run it.It might even vibrate on the neighbors radio too . Wasn't sure where all the volts were going and didn't want them going in me. By this time the old wires may not be able to retain all the smoke.'  '
Stay tuned as the adventure begins.'  'URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Hi Bob, Hmmm, sounds like a project for a wise old bugger like yourself. I dont think a micro is a good choice for this sort of project as they dont handle voltage spikes and uneven power sources real well, there is a lot of chatter on the picaxe forum about using them in automotive functions and how fickle they can be with that enviroment. Yes it could be done, but i think sticking with the more bullet proof chips like 555's and others would be better advised concidering the operating conditions. There is limitations to what a picaxe can do effectively. (hint hint) Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Pete What I was thinking about was using the PICAXE for stepping through different frequencies in sequence or perhaps sweeping up and down from 10 K hz to 30K hz every minuet to accommodate different batteries with the one unit, I observed with to old unit I had years ago that there was quite a different loading on different size batteries. The Pic would be a driver rather than an active component in the actual desulphator circuit. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| danielhenry31 Newbie  Joined: 29/06/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 5 |
If you use a solar regulator line, ensure that the high voltage battery is not exceeded and to allow a greater burden on the rate of initial load controller, which is extremely important and Gell cells SLA batteries. Be sure not to over SAP in the treatment of the score or smoke coming out of magic. I can use a 20 amp controller 16 amp charger and it works great, much cheaper than the dollar was quoted 300 I for a voltage controlled charger the same output. portable battery charger |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Dan Are you playing silly buggers or just trying to make a fool of yourself. Bob Foolin Around |
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