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Forum Index : Electronics : Control card out of AIR X 12 volt

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AMACK

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Joined: 31/05/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 184
Posted: 11:07am 31 May 2009
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Can I use a control card out of an AIR X 12 volt 400 watt wind gen on a F&P rewire motor/gen.
I have a F&P 42 pole stator rewired to 7 groups 2 pole star. I have a card from an Air X 12 volt so called 400watt gen and would like to use it if it will work or will there be a lot of smoke.
I have test benched the F&P and at around 30-40 rpm it will power a 100 watt 12 volt spot light. With a drill at full speed it was puting out aroung 68.8 volt, did not check the amps at this stage as ran out of light.
Has anyone tryed this in the past.

Thanks Andy...
*Note to self

1. Make it thick

2.Make it heavy.

3.Make it stronger than it should be.

4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor
 
niall1

Senior Member

Joined: 20/11/2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 331
Posted: 07:23pm 01 Jun 2009
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hi Amack

cant offer a definate answer as i,m unfamiliar with both ..but assuming the controll was electrically compatable i think the f&p power might push the card and its components ( rectifiers ? )to their limits taking away a bit of safety head room

just a thought Edited by niall1 2009-06-03
niall
 
niall1

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Joined: 20/11/2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 331
Posted: 07:38pm 01 Jun 2009
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oops ... there could be a microprocesser speed controll thingy in there ..controlling an airx,s blades might be lot easier than what can be hung on a f&p (the two havent much in common if anything, in that dept )....i,d be very apprenshive about that one .... Edited by niall1 2009-06-03
niall
 
AMACK

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Joined: 31/05/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 184
Posted: 01:06am 02 Jun 2009
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Thanks for the feed back, I know when the AIR X goes into reg mode it shuts the blades down even in strong winds. It does this by reversing the magnets I think.

I have run the F&P again and have used a 12 volt car altanator rec and got over 20 amp at 14.4 volt and was only spining it slow. I the changed over to a 24 volt truck altanator rec and got it up to 28.8 volt and 19 amp. I can only go up to 20 amp as that is the only amp meter I have at this point in time. A white goods repair bloke in town has got another 5 F&P motors for me to pick up too.
I have a 24 volt system that I am puting in at home and would like to know what would be the best way to rewire the F&P motor.
I also have a creek that never stops, even this year and this was the longest drought in record for Australia. My plan is to but two motors on a water wheel and run it to the battery bank at the house. The creek is 300 mt from the house, I was thinking of running it to the house in 3 phase and then putting it throw the rec and reg. Is this a good idear or not. I just thought that it may not loose as much that way.

Any idears..

AMACK
Edited by AMACK 2009-06-03
*Note to self

1. Make it thick

2.Make it heavy.

3.Make it stronger than it should be.

4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor
 
niall1

Senior Member

Joined: 20/11/2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 331
Posted: 10:57pm 02 Jun 2009
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hi Amack

the hydro sounds like a great resource but... 300m is a long ...loong ..run , and at a relatively low voltage (24v) resistance in the cable ( unless it was seriously big ) would soak up the power in a big way....(propabely most of it unfortunately ) ..maybe it,d be possible to
invert it at the source and then sent it back (hopefully some one could advise on this )


any idears better than no idea at all .... ...or is it ... Edited by niall1 2009-06-04
niall
 
AMACK

Senior Member

Joined: 31/05/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 184
Posted: 03:27am 03 Jun 2009
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Niall1,

Even if I send it from the creek to the house as 3 phase? The turbine'S that I would use would be regulated at the battery bank not the creek. I would use a delta wireing config, as it from what I read produces better power at high revs. The water turbin spins very fast and the fall and flow is very good.

Andy....
*Note to self

1. Make it thick

2.Make it heavy.

3.Make it stronger than it should be.

4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor
 
niall1

Senior Member

Joined: 20/11/2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 331
Posted: 09:58am 03 Jun 2009
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hi Andy

sending it back as 3 phase is better more copper less resistance ...but then theres the cost of 900 mts of pretty heavy cable

it might be possible to wire the f&p for a higher voltage (within reason ... ..) then use a transformer at the batteries ...this would improve the effiency so lighter cable could be used

matching the transformer to the f&p seems to be the issue here ..check out http://www.fieldlines.com/section/hydro

edit

heres some cable power loss figures for a piggott 1.8m 24v machine rated at 350w

for a 50m run to the rectifier ..using 10mm square expect 10% loss at full power ...

the 48v version could use 2.5mm square for the same 10& loss

these figures are from his book .....i,m no good at the math ..... Edited by niall1 2009-06-05
niall
 
Robb
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Joined: 01/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 221
Posted: 01:31am 04 Jun 2009
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I know of someone who has done a long 3 phase run from a F&P hydro. The voltage drop is so great they just rectify it and feed it straight into the batteries. No rewiring of the F&P at all. Mega losses but 1 amp 24/7 adds up over time.

A step up to a few KV would be ideal but there are a few legal and safety issues .
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 04:25am 04 Jun 2009
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The non rewire approach is frought with safety issues, if the load is removed. Full AC volts will be present. using resistance to match the loading, without a safety mechanism is not the way to go.

Gordon.
become more energy aware
 
AMACK

Senior Member

Joined: 31/05/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 184
Posted: 12:30pm 04 Jun 2009
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Hi Rob,
Can you tell me how far they ran it?
My locationn is only just up the road from you, about 150 k north ( strathbogie)
Would like to know what system they used and what turbin configure they have and if it worked. I have looked at heaps of turbins and there are a lot. I would like to measure the flow and fall if you know someone that is good and has experance at turbins can you let me know.

On a new topic.. About 12 months back My self and a few locals had a company drop in and ask us if we would like to have a wind farm put in our back paddocks. We did not go ahead with it as some of the term in the 25+25+25 year contract did not sound nice. About two days ago I had a call from an Australia company asking if they could come up and have a look at a site for a wind farm. I my self are all for wind farm and some people I know are all for them IF thay in someone else's back yard. I would like to have a large scale wind farm in the back paddock at this stage. It would be good to ge somme feed back from a few people that have worked around wind and large scale gear to see if I should keep going with this or tap it on the head.

AMACK( Andy)
*Note to self

1. Make it thick

2.Make it heavy.

3.Make it stronger than it should be.

4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor
 
AMACK

Senior Member

Joined: 31/05/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 184
Posted: 07:37am 02 Sep 2009
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Can I use anything from the old control card. If I was to rat out the small diodes and put bigger ones in it place would it work. I like the way the card works with the Air X system it shuts the wind gen down when batterys are full. It also only kicks in when up to speed so there is good use of low wind speed.


Amack
*Note to self

1. Make it thick

2.Make it heavy.

3.Make it stronger than it should be.

4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 08:13am 02 Sep 2009
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The Air-X has been designed with enough alternator stall torque to stop the blades. A well set up F&P does not have these properties. You would need small blades and degogging. Too big a rotor and the reactance problems appear at high power and the windmill cannot be stopped until the winds reduce. Even when the output was shorted, my F&P was able to overcome the electrical brake and run away in high winds. Furling does not help a lot in these circumstances.

Gordon.

become more energy aware
 
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