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Forum Index : Windmills : Lenz2 revisited
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I decided to have another go at the Lenz2 powered F&P 
I played around with this a few months ago, but had problems with noise. The F&P vibrats as it rotates, the large wings of the Lenz amplified this vibration into a very loud and annoying drone. So I turned the Lenz into a water pump. But of late there has been turbulent wind here, the HAWT's havn't moved in months! I live on the north side of a hill, and for 6 months of the year the wind is from the south east. However the Lenz2 and another smaller sandia savious have run every day. The VAWTs are not affected by turbulent winds, unlike the HAWTs. So I bolted a F&P back onto the Lenz, but this time I used a decogged stator. The lenz has a lot of torque, so would start a non-decogged stator easily, but I wanted to see if a decogged stator would reduce the noise. Not much wind today, but when the Lenz has run there is no noise at all, so I might be on to a winner. I'm using a standard ( but decogged ) 80 series stator, and at 20 rpm I get 14volts DC, just enough to charge a battery. Hopefully tomorrow there will be some more wind. Now I dont expect much from this, a couple of amps, 20 odd watts, but the point is, this thing could make a few watts in light turbulent wind, while the big HAWT is making nothing! Will keep you all posted. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| RossW Guru  Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
Thats a nicely made looking 'mill there Glenn. I wonder if even something as "trivial" as a rubber shaft coupling would help substantially reduce the vibration back into the "sounding-boards"! Had reasonable breeze here today, nearly 4000 watt-hours out of my HAWT today, which is a bonus. Saved running the generator for a while at least! |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah I think a rubber coupling would work. I have one floating around, somewhere 
I connected a 3phase bridge rectifier last night, and dug up my trusty old Micronta digital multimeter. The Micronta has a peak hold function, so can be set to record a peak measurement while I'm away at work. This afternoon I checked the meter, 60 volts DC peak, meaning the Lenz reached over 100 RPM. I've connected up a 12v battery, and set the meter to record amps. So tomorrow I'll be able to read peak amps into 12 volts, and therefore work out watts. Then I'll break into the windings and reconfigure the stator into two halves. This will double the amps, half the volts, and then I'll do another amps/watts test. I'm pretty excited about this windmill now. Remember, this windmill is close to the ground, at head height, and is working, while next to it is a conventional HAWT 7 meters up in the air, and not working! Keep ya's posted. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Landor Newbie  Joined: 08/06/2006 Location: New ZealandPosts: 12 |
Create a vortex inlet and you will increase the wind over the vanes considerably. Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it.
Often the wind factor is greater between ground level and 4-6 meters high especially in light breeze. This is because the light wind picks up with the convection currents from the ground which dissipate as they go higher. |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Finally got some figures from the windmill. I saw a peak of 1.8 amps, giving me 21 watts. Thats not bad at all, considering the horrible wind conditions it had to deal with, and it has a frontal area of only 1.5 meters square ( the big windmill is 3.8 meters ). Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| rpned Newbie Joined: 03/02/2006 Location: Posts: 4 |
Hi Gizmo Any starting Windspeed collected for this unit? The PicoTurbine type I have sent a photo of before, if the Anenometer can be believed, starts at 2.4 -> 2.6 m/s and runs to around 1.6 -> 1.8 m/s before dropping out. The most important thing is, in low and variable Wind conditions, it is running so any gust which comes along produces some useful power. Cheers |
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Prof Newbie Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 33 |
Hi Gizmo (and Co.) I was a bit disappointed when you relegated the "Lenz2" VAWT to pumpimg water and I am please to see that you now have it pumping an F&P again. I think that in my part of the world the general weather conditions ( see http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/townsville) suit a VAWT rather than a Horizontal machine. The wind/weather page I just mentioned is my favorite and when I compare my area to Mackay, the average is similar but you have higher peaks and troughs in wind strength so you would get more out of a HAWT than I would. I am confident that the "Lenz2" design has promise so I have started on the support structure to make one. Would you beleive that this design is in commercial production? Is true! (see http://www.ev-newhope.com/). I think where they site the bearings and the generator in their design is excellent and similar VAWTs such as the Ropatec do much the same so mine won't be much different. The original "Lenz2" design has a central drum in the wind rotor and so has all Ropatec machines (http://www.ropatec.com/smartedit/produkte/modelle/documents /b/EN_WindRotor_WRE.005_Bora.pdf). There must be something worthwhile in having this item in the turbine. What do you think?? I too am very interested in the output characteristics of your VAWT, i.e. wind speed, rpm, watts etc so that I can do comparisions down the track.Please keep posting. Maybe you can soup up your HAWT for low wind speed by putting on a fan like Arthur's (http://www.hushenergy.com.au/). Prof I know boats!! |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Thanks for the info and links Prof. Looks like that VAWT design is going through a natural evolution, with several inventors coming up with the same layout. I've been concentrating on my new logger project over the last week. The reason I built the logger was to get some real figures from my own Lenz, so hopefully over the next week I can get some figures. Yeah the wind has been dissapointing over the last few months, but it shouldn't be long before it picks up around here. Last weekend my HAWT spun up for the first time in Months. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Prof Newbie Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 33 |
Hi Gizmo and Co. You mentioned that your VAWT was somewhat noisy at first. Take a peek at this baby, turn up the sound, and watch the video clip - (http://www.windrotor.net/index.htm). Do you think the neighbours would notice?? Prof I know boats!! |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Prof Thank for letting us know about hushenergy by Arthur as it was very intesting ideas l really enjoyed it looking Arthur's Webs site .so l can't see why not MP little Johnny Howard or his boys dont think about Aussie Desigh Wind power instead worry about building Nuclear power Plant and also running, flying around planets wasting aircraft fuel and Aussie's taxpayer money Dwyer the bushman |
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windstuffnow Newbie Joined: 30/06/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 31 |
Hi Prof and all, My first post here and I'm learning how to use the board... The guy that is trying to "steal" the Lenz2 design "was" our original designer for the alternator. He actually doesn't have enough information to get it working as efficient as it should. By the looks of it, at least at this point, it's not going to hold up very well in higher winds or perform very well. There is actually a considerable amount of missing components on the turbine shown on his web site. Things that make the difference between a turbine that runs and one that extracts energy at 41%+ efficiency. The Lenz2 is going to be manufactured, in progress as we speak... I think you'll see the difference in a good one or a just a copy... You'll see... 
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
When I looked at the windmill at http://www.ev-newhope.com/ I thought it looked a little "weak". I tend to over engineer my windmills, make them stronger than needed. Use triangles on every joint, 3 points of contact. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Coyote Newbie Joined: 30/06/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 1 |
 This post is in support of a really nice guy who is getting a raw deal. Ed has helped many DIY guys in the past. He's given advice and even shared materials for only the shipping costs. Here's the letter I sent him this am. Ripping off Gates and Speilberg and Gucci is one thing. Ripping off a little guy makes my blood boil. Sorry for the rant.
Ed, Your are the nicest guy I know but you shouldnt be so kind to that little maggot. Men like him are giving millions of Honest Chinese People bad names. NewHopes entire line of products have been copied from others. From golf caddys to scooters, he doesnt have a single original thought. To think that he is trying to market a design that we all know is yours, is unthinkable. To anyone reading this, I urge you, do not buy anything from Newhope. The owner is a thief. It's one thing to steal a mans property. Its another to steal his ideas. In closing, I would like to thank you Ed. You have always openly shared your designs and even materials with others who are trying to help save this planet. You have encouraged, even helped, people who wanted to build their own Lenz turbine. Now that you are near production on your first Lenz TurboBreeze, I salute you and wish you well. Anyone who buys something resembling a Lenz design from anyone except Ed Lenz deserves exactly what they get. I think its time we all get behind people like you and show the world that nice guys can and do finish first. Dont worry, if your production model is anything like the prototype I saw, youll be too busy to worry about leaches. Larry
Currently, this is the only planet we have. Wake up and smell the roses people! |
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| Landor Newbie Joined: 08/06/2006 Location: New ZealandPosts: 12 |
Hello, I see the posts on this and do not wish to comment except to say I am designing a new type of wind wheel with specially curved blades which should produce much from low groundconvection currents so will keep you lot posted. I will post the design once I have finalised and tested the unit. Happy hunting. |
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| windstuffnow Newbie Joined: 30/06/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 31 |
Thanks Larry, it's that kind of encouragement that keeps me going ! |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
 Hi Larry
Thank for your commet about Newhopes and l do belive is true and is abig con about after l have visiting their web site fews time on Newhopes web site is fraud as has No sufficent fix address, Business Phone & Fax number or selling licence and nor approve E-mail address instead con mails address that mean is very suspicion to me 
Dwyer the Bushman |
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| Prof Newbie Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 33 |
Hi Gizmo and Co Glenn, What angle of attack have you set the wings of your "Lenz2" to? windstuffnow (Ed) was talking of 9 degrees during his original checks. Have you tried varying much from this? Prof I know boats!! |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Prof. I did design in an adjustment of +/- 5 degrees around 9 degrees. I have played around with different angles, but the results were inconsistant, due to the terrible wind conditions at the time. But I know Ed has done many hours of testing in his home made wind tunnel, and I have faith in his results. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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