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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : I have a Question of etiquette
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Rickard5 Guru  Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
With this Pico based Machine Controller I'm finding it easier to do it in Micro Python, because I'm finding easier to find sample projects to draw from, and it'll help me learn MM Basic when porting from Python to MMBasic My Question is: is it acceptable etiquette to post non MMBasic Microcontroller projects here ? does anyone else do any Micro Python? thanks Rick I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6780 |
No problem. It isn't a MMBasic forum even if it tends to look like one. :) It isn't even restricted to microcontrollers, but if you are building a space ship controlled by a CRAY 1 or a PDP 11 it might be just touching the edges of what might be acceptable here. Personally I've not actually used Micro Python, although I have played with Circuit Python. They aren't completely dissimilar although they aren't related. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
As one of the admins, I can say that I welcome any posts for other projects.  You have at it!  Pretty much all of us here, LOVE to read about ANY new project, but it is true that these forums have somewhat defualted to MMBASIC ports. But that does not mean you cannot post about other MCU's or code for them - everything is welcome here.  The only exception to posting, is that political threads should not be posted, and they tend to get shut-down pretty fast. This is cos everyone's politics is their own, and also that as an admin, I have to follow the rules of the site owner(Glen/Gizmo), and he has banned any political talk here - and fair enough too. In his own words: "There are other forums for that."  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
What Mick and Grogster said. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Malibu Senior Member  Joined: 07/07/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 228 |
I've asked plenty of non-MMbasic and non-uController questions here, always with a helpful response. A good rule too I've done a little with MicroPython for WiFi on the Pico boards, but didn't find it to 'my taste', but it's actually pretty powerful. I just didn't like the syntax. MM stepped up with the WebMite, so it's much easier doing everything in MMbasic. I haven't used uPython since. John |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Edited 2024-08-18 18:11 by Grogster Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Marcel27 Regular Member  Joined: 13/08/2024 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 53 |
Rick, I've done very, very simple python and micro-python stuff. However I do not like the indenting of the code, I'm always asking myself where does the code stop of this loop.  I was surprised that there was a Raspberry Pi Pico with basic. Since I have programmed in visual basic for applications for over 35 years, my mind is more in the basic language mode than in python mode. I also find Pascal very interesting and as a byproduct of that I also (sometimes) program in Blackbox Component Pascal. This is a complete programming environment that you can download via this LINK. Niklaus Wirth was the founder of this language. A very beautiful language. Do not underestimate this language and do not look down on the IDE, the following program is built with Blackbox Component Pascal. I like the welcome of any pojects in this forum! Marcel If you use AI, you lose your mind. |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 857 |
Although I have no religious beliefs, I often get the feeling that things are happening to suit ME personally (no vanity there, right?) Back in the day, I found myself lumbered with a huge task and failure was simply not an option. It involved a lot of coding and continuous testing because it was for a HUGE 5 axis machine and I was alone. This was on an 80286 and apart from compile/linking taking FOREVER, inserting debug code was downright tedious.....this was not gonna work but then....QuickBasic 4 with its threaded p-code interpreter showed-up and, whoa, I was off-to-the-races. So if the machine would hang-up, part-way through a sequence, I could break-in, identify the problem and resume running without having to reset the whole work-cell. The only problem was that this was DOS and I really needed a deterministic background task that would keep running, even when QB4 was paused. I was using a 3rd party library from Crescent Software to further speed-up QB4 and the author, Ethan Winer, not only provided the MASM source but he encouraged QB programmers to experiment with MASM by using his code as a template. Hey, this wasn't so bad at all. I found some MASM code that hijacked the time of day clock interrupt, boosted the frequency and then compensated to maintain correct time keeping. Here was my 1ms background task. The task was quite simple and therefore the MASM coding was easy. It shared variables with QB4 which just "magically" updated. Fast forward to today and here I am again but now in chip-form. Editing and running code, instantly without the need of an external PC and a sufficiently capable assembler to handle the deterministic requirements. A control-system engineer's dream. There is no way possible to make machine control easier. I ain't swtching to any other language. Meanwhile, over on the PLC forum: "Hey guys my PLC programming licence just expired and I need to make a change on one of our machines. Do I really need the $18,000 licence...what other options do I have? Need to do something quick" |
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| Rickard5 Guru Joined: 31/03/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 463 |
Thanks You guys, I Really LOVE this forum when I got my first CMM2 and all this time I messing with these picomites everybody has been Just GREAT and Supportive. There is such a diverse knowledge base here , with no judgement, or infighting, or Grammar Karens beating me down over my word salad style of typing/ writing :) Nahh who in their Right mind would want a CRAY 1? the Pico 1 way out performs the Cray one :) but I'd give Body parts for a PDP11/17! I'm Trying to get One of these PFP 11 Kits ! I may be Vulgar, but , while I'm poor, I'm Industrious, Honest, and trustworthy! I Know my Place |
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Quazee137 Guru Joined: 07/08/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 567 |
this is "Microcontroller and PC projects" And boy we do have a lot of projects. I myself has been playing with the Arduino IDE taking me time to get use to what lib I need to do what ever. Also Micro:Bit and the blocky thing but it can show the block code in java or Python. So helps in seeing how to code in them. If you have a problem with a Python program you can post here and we'll do what we can to help. That is what this forum is all about. Coding, designing and building FUN. MMBasic is my main for coding water treatment controllers. My son is in water treatment and has sold many of what I have done. His customers many are small and can not afford the replacement cost of old controllers for new ones. The MicroMite MM170 in din rail case replaced big box units costing $1000's where the ones made with MMBasic $100's. Now retired but will do a prototype for him to test. If it does what they want. I'll give him PCB layout and BOM to use at LCSC and JLC. I no longer build 50,100 or 500 units myself just not up to it. coming up on 69 and having FUN Quazee137 |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1241 |
Hi Brent (Quazee), that's interesting! Would you like to describe in more detail what the "water treatment controllers" are about? Are they also suitable for preparing drinking water from collected rainwater in less developed regions (Palestine)? Thank you very much! Michael causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence |
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hitsware2 Guru Joined: 03/08/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 713 |
For me ...... this : Is easier to use than : this : my site |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6780 |
Well, you have less instructions to remember and less RAM to fill up. ;) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| hitsware2 Guru Joined: 03/08/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 713 |
Yes .... Only me , but the mmbasic manual is sort of overwhelming .....  my site |
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| Quazee137 Guru Joined: 07/08/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 567 |
@twofingers Water tower, Boilers, Farm chemical mixers and well testing. Water towers have fed/bleed cycles for adding biocides and polymers to control scale and fouling. Boilers to control corrosion, deposits and sludge. Farm chemical mixers to blend biocides, nitrogen, organic pesticides ect... Some control functions basic to all. Each also has unique requirements. Ph, condensate, temperature along with other testing to ensure the water is at the right state for each need. Quazee137 Edited 2024-08-19 03:09 by Quazee137 |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1241 |
Thank you very much. But I think that's a different area than drinking water production. Still an exciting topic! Best regards Michael causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence |
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| Marcel27 Regular Member Joined: 13/08/2024 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 53 |
If the change costs you $18,000 a week of not using the new option and a complete rebuild cost more than 1 month building with another tool, than I would pay the licence. And what about the other machines? Marcel If you use AI, you lose your mind. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6780 |
Agreed. When you pay for PLCs and their programming you aren't paying for cheap hardware and no real support. If you have a system that came with a charge of $18,000 for the programming side then it's big enough to need it. The licence is cheap (and may even be tax-deductible) compared to a month of downtime. Just smile and pay it. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 857 |
The project I cited was for the General Motors Mini Van. Downtime was estimated $1M/hour. They'd purchased a special machine which didn't have a hope-in-hell of working because it featured huge, open-loop stepper-motors on linear, high-inertia axes. GM's spec was for 1000mm/sec and a repeatability of +-0.1mm. Well the steppers could do either/or but not both. To achieve repeatability, the machine had to run excruciatingly slow. I was brought-in as a consultant and my expertise was closed-loop servo-motion which is what was needed. They asked me to take-on the project but I stipulated that all I could use is a PC. This horrified the internal engineers because they wanted all Allen Bradley controls. So they went with my PC but they never stopped reminding me about the million bucks/hour. "WTF...get someone else to do it then" but nobody wanted to touch it. One day, after the machine was running (perfectly, BTW), I staged a failure simulation; grabbed an IBM PC out of the office, swapped the ISA boards over and the entire thing ran on the standard desktop PC Let me see you do that with an AB. Their policy was to not stock spares but there's always a PC lying around But I see this a lot. Technicians trying to make changes where sometimes the proprietary RS485 or USB cable is nowhere to be found and then they struggle to remember how to use the programming app. I recently got involved with setting-up a new ABB servo-drive, via a laptop. Nothing made sense and so we ended-up with ABB over TeamViewer and even they struggled. I plug into a PicoMite (or other) and all I need be concerned about is the change that needs to be made. |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 857 |
But if you buy the machine used and depend on it? The licence doesn't get transferred and nobody thinks about passing-on the password. So now you're screwed. |
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