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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Giving up on Pi?
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| William Leue Guru  Joined: 03/07/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 393 |
The continuing unobtanium status of the ARM module in the CMM2 makes me wonder if we should be looking for alternative platforms. There are a lot of good single-board computers out there, albeit at a higher price that the current CMM2. Explaining Computers.com had a recent show highlighting the LicheePi4A board, a Risc-V multi-core computer that runs a pre-installed Debian Linux out of the box. I know that Linux is not what we have been using, but of course it could be overwritten with the MMBasic OS. I'm sure Geoff and Peter will think this is nonsense for a number of reasons, especially the cost factor. Oh well, it's just another pipe dream. -Bill |
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amigawizard Regular Member  Joined: 15/08/2023 Location: AustraliaPosts: 43 |
Pic32Mz have 10 ! runing C & MMBasic https://www.olimex.com/Products/PIC/Development/PIC32-HMZ144/open-source-hardware this one run MMX at 200 MHz Wayne ! ` |
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stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2129 |
There's freebasic for linux. I built it on rpi 400 but only got it to say "hello world". Getting it to work with Geany editor no idea. I use win but not the command prompt. Linux you have to. I only use basic as too old to learn c or python. I've only used mmbasic with rpi pico, the cheap price was a big choice factor and made me move from 8bit controllers. |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
If the Pi platform had been stable we may very well have been using it now. IMHO Raspberry Pi made a serious error in not providing an official, documented way to access the GPIO right from the beginning. Everything since has been a kludge. Running MMBasic under Linux is a definite possibility, in which case the actual platform becomes less important - but you may have to rewrite any hardware IO for every one or, possibly, standardise on serial-access GPIO. You can't simply replace a linux installation with MMBasic. The hardware is too specific. You'd be in danger of having to rewrite the whole IO layer and timings for every variation of the system - very much like the RPi. We may see that ARM module again, but probably nowhere near the pre-covid price. That makes the CMM2 a pretty expensive box. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
@ Wayne There's no point in attempting to replace a CMM2 with something that's actually not much more capable than a PicoMite (admittedly it has more IO though). The CMM2 is in a different ballpark. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2129 |
There's wiring pi, which I read works with free basic. https://roboticsbackend.com/introduction-to-wiringpi-for-raspberry-pi/ |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3150 |
There is a Linux "standard" for digital I/O--libgpio--but what seems very un-standard is the implementation on the quite variable Linux devices. Last time I checked, the version which you could get on the pi with apt-get install or the like was out of date, and did not support some newer features which MMBasic needed. You could build the newer version, but that would require an intervention far beyond what a typical MMBasic user would be accustomed to. Aside from on/off GPIO, every other bit of interaction with I/O peripherals would be idiosyncratic, as it is for each new piece of microprocessor hardware to which MMBasic is ported. Of course, there is Tom's MMB4L, which is Linux MMBasic but with only serial I/O implemented (aside from console access). That said, Picomite on the Pi-Zero-W was quite powerful (HDMI output, anyone), and it's a shame that the Raspberry Pi Foundation made it a moving target as far as I/O was concerned. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
Yes, but that's another kludge. GPIO access should be as close to the hardware as you can get. It should have been built in from day 1 and, possibly, extended when more pins became available. Unfortunately that breaks the security model of linux, where ordinary users can't have hardware access by default. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| stanleyella Guru Joined: 25/06/2022 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2129 |
I got rpi 1,2,3,400 and the gpio must work for all the add on boards and hats. It's the same as arduino uno hats. The only hat I wear is a bicycle lid with a camcorder after someone opened a car door on me and I was grounded. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
Yes, the GPIO works on all of them. That's not the problem. The problem is that it doesn't work in the same way on all of them because they are on different Broadcom chips. If you are using Linux or Python to access them then the hardware registers that control them are hidden from the user, although the OS can use them. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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hitsware2 Guru Joined: 03/08/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 713 |
How about S.D.L. ? SDL BBCBasic runs well on RPi ..... That would open up ( I think ) the possibility of OnLineMMBasic ... Edited 2023-08-24 06:30 by hitsware2 my site |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3802 |
Its support for GPIOs looks a bit... basic. John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3802 |
It looks a fast cheap Linux system. Like lots of others. Some with even better I/O (e.g. made by Allwinner). As Peter has said before, needs some weeks/months of effort (per system) to port MMBasic across. And then there's keeping up with incompatible hardware variants (such as RPi). I don't know if MMBasic & such as libgpio can be what's wanted/needed. (RPi has or can use the somewhat special PIGPIO.) John |
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| Andy-g0poy Regular Member Joined: 07/03/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 59 |
The Pi is gradually becoming more available Pi4 in various memory configs etc. The CMM was mainly aimed at the more commercial end of the product range, and I expect that what units are getting made are all heading that way. I doubt if you will see the CMM appearing in the home market for a for a few months yet. Andy |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3150 |
I got basic GPIO working with MMB4L on the Pi-zero-W using libgpio but I had to build it myself because the apt-get install version did not include features in the then-current release, which enabled such things as PULLUP and PULLDOWN. There were other features which were being worked on. After a year and a half of nothing happening, there have been a new release, two release candidates, another new release, and an update of that release in the past 6 months, but none of those have made it into what you get with apt-get install on the Pi (as of the end of June). PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| hitsware2 Guru Joined: 03/08/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 713 |
Yes .... And ( amazingly ) not much more expensive than before ... my site |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9308 |
Indeed. On my website, the CMM2 unit is not dead, but I have placed it into what I call "Limbo" product status. I would like to continue to offer it, but until the chips are available again, we're ALL kinda stuck.  And as you mention Mick, the price of that ARM chip will probably be quite a bit more then it was before the virus - as is pretty much everything now. The CMM2 really came into its own on the superb graphics abilities, so that is where it really shines IMHO, but if all you need or want, is a simple display with only a few colours, the VGA-mite does that really well, and now the WebMite allows you to control your programs via a web GUI - both of those are pretty good ways to develop programs, and the Pico modules are so cheap. BUT chips ARE starting to slowly resurface. I just bought a bunch of PIC32MX170 chips in SOIC from Microchip Direct who have a few of the footprints back in stock now. I've been waiting more then a year to get my hands on more of those, so the fact that they - along with some of the SSOP and DIL footprints of the same series - are now available, is encouraging and a good sign. I hope!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3802 |
Can it be built statically linked? That might be enough (though it doesn't address the more general case of Linux on other CPUs). John |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
It may not even work across different versions of the Pi as they use different Broadcom chips. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3802 |
It's worth trying, I think. Just what libgpio (libgpiod) does & how it interacts with the lower OS stuff (drivers etc) will be critical. If I get a chance I'll hunt around. edit: on a quick skim, it doesn't (or didn't?) cover SPI, I2C (or ...), not that these exist (or would be wanted by many users) on lots of Linux systems John Edited 2023-08-24 19:28 by JohnS |
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