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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MMBsic 2023 programming challenge
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| Volhout Guru  Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
Previous years (2021 and 2022) there was a programming challenge for MMBasic microcontrollers and microprocessors. In general the rule where that you had to write a small program (maximum 5 kbyte) to compete, and a team of judges would determine ranking. I found these challenges very exciting, and look forward to this years challenge. We could use the same set of rules used last year, but maybe there are proposals for adaptations of these rules... (i.e. program size (*), use of peripherals (RTC module, game paddle), supporting documentation etc...). To kick off the discussion I start this thread. Volhout (*) since many contestants will do this in spare evening hours, promoting large programs may hold some contestants off. Since we want many to compete... make things simple. Edited 2023-05-16 00:44 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4043 |
I guess somebody had to bring this up  .I'm happy to help organise and make a results video, but would be even happier if someone else wants those responsibilities. Let's start with a show of hands/interest. Assuming (and it is an assumption) we used the same rules as last time and set a deadline for the end of August (is that too far away?) then who is likely to submit an entry ? https://github.com/thwill1000/mmbasic-challenge/blob/main/2022/challenge-2022.pdf Best wishes, Tom Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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lew247 Guru Joined: 23/12/2015 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1702 |
Why not make it different this year and limit it to the Pico? That would make it a lot harder but also more interesting because it wouldn't have to be just mostly games, but the possibilities using the pio could make it pretty interesting |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
I will compete, put me on the list. In case there are plenty candidates, I could withdraw an be one of the judges. This is one of the best things for this forum. Bundle good ideas and energy into a common goal. I still cherish the feedback I got from others (i.e. vegipete) to improve my own program. Lets make this a success... Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
Good idea. But PIO most likely means connecting something to the IO pins. Last year that was not allowed. So we would need to change that rule, and agree that contestants provide support to make it do-able for the judges. I.e. provide HW. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
Maybe there could be a restriction on what the GP pins could be used for. e.g. Acceptable: Digital / switch inputs Analogue / resistance / voltage inputs Digital outputs Not acceptable: Communication (I2C, SPI, COM) PWM IO expansion Something like this would be needed so that no specialist IO stuff is needed for the judges. I left out PWM to prevent things like servos. Not sure whether PIO routines would be ok. And just to rub it in, programs must be able to run on VGA systems. LCD programs are acceptable, but must not require Touch and a VGA-compatible version must also be submitted if the same program cannot work on both. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 368 |
The hardware side might become a significant hurdle for the judges (having to wire up multiple projects). A possible way around it might be to have people make a video of their project working. I think we all trust each other enough that there wouldn't be any "cheating/fakery". Of course, then it ceases to be a programming challenge and becomes more of a control system challenge - but there's nothing wrong with that IMHO. Then it could be opened to all variations of of "mites" even the original ones. |
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Martin H. Guru Joined: 04/06/2022 Location: GermanyPosts: 1114 |
 me toEdited 2023-05-16 03:46 by Martin H. 'no comment |
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| TimD Newbie  Joined: 23/02/2021 Location: United KingdomPosts: 27 |
I may be interested - I think it depends on the parameters of the challenge, and whether I can come up with any new ideas this time. Although I'm reasonably capable of hooking up some hardware, I'd probably attempt a software-only entry. I'll lurk and see how the discussion unfolds... Kind regards, Tim. |
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LucV Regular Member  Joined: 19/02/2023 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 62 |
Sounds interesting. But we have a really wide spectrum of units. What do the members want. Only a uniform programming chalenge or something more wide like splitting the challenge up for the different versions. Would be difficult to judge a WebMite program that does something complicated on the web against a PicoMiteVGA program. Judging would be difficult but a no limits challenge should be interesting....... Well only limit is Pico (standard version so no second source manufacturers) and Basic of course. So PicoMiteVGA, PicoMite standard and Webmite allowed and anything you can attach to them. Edited 2023-05-16 04:25 by LucV Luc's tech Blog |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6798 |
There's no point in having a competition where entries can't be judged by several judges. That will mean having a lowest common denominator that all judges can use. The Webmite is still too new and specialised IMHO. The cheapest, most accessible option for all entrants is a PicoMite VGA. Even those who don't have one wouldn't be much out of pocket to rig up a Pico, four resistors and a VGA socket on a breadboard. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
Webmite would be great in this challenge... Something all judges can judge. Volhout Edited 2023-05-16 07:25 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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Quazee137 Guru Joined: 07/08/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 571 |
I'll be on the side lines as I don't use the VGA and games are not my forte unless it is minecraft.  I do love seeing all the games MSBasic had been used for.   Have FUN I'll be watching in on it. Quazee37 |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 9129 |
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| Andrew_G Guru Joined: 18/10/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 847 |
WebMite for me too.It makes IoT a very real possibility. I would suggest this as a theme? Contestants would have to monitor and control multiple devices/sensors and use some sort of display to monitor and control them and show the results. Instead of having to provide the physical devices to monitor and control, a contestant could specify them and their interface(s). A video (or stills??) would help. I would also be happy to volunteer to fund, or contribute to, a prize although I see this as 'recognition' rather then 'incentive'. It might take the form of a 'plaque' or 'medal' or 'whatever' to display in the winner(s) messy workshop. Something somewhat short of the Nobel bequest (and I'm still alive) and consistent with previous years. I am NOT competent to be a judge but as I have benefited so much from MMBasic and TBS I would be very happy to put a little back. Cheers, Andrew Edited 2023-05-16 07:53 by Andrew_G |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
I have limitted experience, but feel that the html file size easily surpasses the 5 kbyte. And then you aad the bas file. Webmite could violate many rule when using online content. So some changes would be needed. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3150 |
Browser? PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1611 |
Having a competition for software and keyboard only entries does mean that most of us can run and test the entries. Not just the judges and I think that is importand. That pretty much limits the entries to games and utility programs though. The only way I see to make it a more 'open slather' competition is to do as Pete said, a video must be made, the software must be published along with any schematics and a 'user manual'. Program size and the hardware used would not then be an issue. Judging could be done by the whole community where each member could rate each (and every) entry on a 'voting form' which then could be tallied up by single judge or a team of judges. There are many members who seem very knowledgeable but have never submitted any code for other people's benefit or use. This may encourage them to do so. Having said that the previous competitions were called 'software challenges' and they have served us well and as they say: 'it ain't broke...' That's my tuppence worth. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4247 |
There are many interesting topics, and apparently there is interest in each of them. So it is either choose, or allow all.... - Webmite: New to this forum, but might need adapted rules to be viable (program size / web content) - Picomite PIO: Rather new, but might need adapted rules (peripherals) - Classic 5k: proven last 2 challenges Since forum members would like to play with the new features (Web / PIO) I suggest we adapt the rules. I for myself would love to see what others can do with the Webmite, for me this is new territory (started following LucV's training). I am also looking forward to Geoff's presentation of his garden watering system, just to see how it is done.... My HTML knowledge is sub zero. And in combination with your own server in MMBasic...wauw... Eager to learn... Volhout Edited 2023-05-16 22:17 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 368 |
My tuppence: Once again, I don't know if I will have time to provide anything meaningful to this competition, but having a web-based or hardware aspect to the competition is certainly an exciting change. While the 5K limit made sense for the programming only challenges, I think it might be wise to discard it if we are using anything external to the processor (such as web or hardware). It becomes far too hard to define matching limits on these external factors. I get that the original reasoning for the 5K limit was to make the project more accessible, but once there are external factors, that kind of goes out of the window. What if your hardware is extremely impressive but your program isn't? How much can be downloaded off the web? Given that it is a fun challenge, maybe it's better to leave the rules open and just give people a remit such as "make something really cool", and then leave it up to the group to judge what impresses them most. This isn't high stakes, the reward isn't the end goal for most people - it's the fun of participating with your friends. [Yes - I do consider you to be friends - if you're ever in Alberta I'll happily buy you a beer.] |
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