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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MS-DOS is now open-source, so lets build one!
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
This is quite an interesting video, via a guy that actually worked on coding MS-DOS and Windows-95 applications etc. Let's compile MS-DOS!!! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Geoffg Guru  Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3194 |
In this modern age, when you actually run MS-DOS, you will find that it is unbelievably archaic. So much so that I could not believe that, at one time, I thought that it was wonderful. It has drivers for very little... no graphics, no comms (not even serial), no sound and so on. Anything special was built into the applications which cost a lot extra. And don't get me started on the applications - WordStar was extremely basic, Multiplan was entirely text based, etc. It shows how much we have advanced, the only thing worse was CP/M 2.0. Geoff Edited 2024-05-16 02:09 by Geoffg Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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Martin H. Guru Joined: 04/06/2022 Location: GermanyPosts: 1113 |
I started with DOS on a Atari ST with x86 card  to write small Programs and "Masks" in DBase. My first "real" PC was an used 486DX33, which i Used mainly with a SPEA V7 Media FX ISA Soundcard (Ensoniq, FODSWFX1000, Wavetable)as a Midi Player for the ST  Edited 2024-05-16 02:34 by Martin H. 'no comment |
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PEnthymeme Regular Member  Joined: 27/12/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 42 |
Agree with all the sentiment except.... Wordstar taught me about "mark up" ^KB to mark text etc - before I knew HTML. Now the kiddos just use the mouse or god forbid their finger and mash an icon. I raise you LOTUS-123 and dBase! Px |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
There is only one true editor. EDLIN shall be its name. ;) (Or vi for those with better taste!) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3194 |
Yes, vi was a brilliant editor. There is a saying that everyone always loves the first editor they learnt. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
I prefer nano nowadays, to be honest. It's easier to remember how to use it as I rarely use linux now. :) Well, not until Microsoft finally kill off my Win 10, at which point this computer may learn to live in the linux world. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4223 |
When I understand correctly, this particular MS DOS was multitasking. And they turned back to single tasking in 4.01 Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| EDNEDN Senior Member  Joined: 18/02/2023 Location: United StatesPosts: 118 |
From a backward compatibility perspective, everything pretty much worked on v. 4.0. But the MS-DOS core was hopelessly non-reentrant. As long as people were just running one program at a time, everything worked. But anybody getting fancy and queuing up several programs had problems. Microsoft's answer was "If it hurts, don't do it..." and killed the multi-tasking in v. 4.1. |
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| grumpyoldgeek Newbie  Joined: 30/07/2018 Location: United StatesPosts: 31 |
I guess it depends on what you mean by "reentrant". I wrote several TSR-based drivers and applications. They worked fine. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Just to be clear - I am not suggesting anyone ACTUALLY re-compile MS-DOS from the source for any practical purpose, I just thought it was an interesting video for historical sake. I totally hear Geoff on the drivers thing. Even now, I still remember having to install drivers for use of the UARTS and LPT, and you also had to install a driver for a COM-port mouse, to use Windows 3.11. From what I remember, you set those up inside of AUTORUN.BAT and CONFIG.SYS. But inside those files, you loaded the drivers you needed, and started the mouse driver, BEFORE you actually called Windows. But that was just how it was done back then. Computing history is interesting to me. Looking back on what we had then, and what we have now.....feels like a time-warp! My favourite DOS stuff was DIRECT ACCESS 5 TSR(terminate and stay resident) menu system, and Professional Write word processor. TSR always sounded like a total contradiction in terms to me, but it worked well for menus! Both very simple compared to today's free office suite options, but I remember them fondly. Edited 2024-05-16 08:51 by Grogster Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Quazee137 Guru Joined: 07/08/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 568 |
I used CP/M a lot and did many drivers. A FUN one was a IBM typewriter as printer. Even hand wired the board ( well back then it was the only way ) I was glad to have us get away from the S100 buss. Timing always got me. I had to mod my circuits adding or removing a smidget of delay. Ported a SCSI massive 5MB harddrive. Later the group did a disassembly of CP/M only passing on reg use and function. Two others and myself re-coded and in the end we had our ZCP/M 3. I still have most of my 8" disk with ZCP/M on side A and program on side B. Sadly lost my 8" drives in a move. For me all in all it was a very good time. Many hours of late nite coding FUN. Quazee137 yup a crazy collage kid back then. Edited 2024-05-16 12:01 by Quazee137 |
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| EDNEDN Senior Member Joined: 18/02/2023 Location: United StatesPosts: 118 |
Yes... All true... But it was a different time. And instead of 'drivers', the OS insured it was fully functional and could run anywhere if it had a BIOS available. The BIOS (Basic Input Output System) provided all the 'Must Have' devices the OS needed to operate. And even today... Every Windows laptop has a BIOS. It still provides the basic functionality to read the mass storage devices, set up the video, provide key strokes and whatever else is needed to get the system up and running. Having all vendors comply with a standard set of BIOS functionality helped compatibility and greased the skids to get us to where we are at today. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
It was the reverse engineering of the BIOS that started the rush of "IBM clone" computers. The BIOS system was proprietary and was intended to allow IBM to have a common base for future developments. AMD rather messed that up for them. :) They made a "work-alike" that could drive different hardware. The end result was a computer that could run MSDOS but wasn't IBM in either hardware or firmware. They then licensed their BIOS out to anyone that wanted it at very low rates. IIRQ it was Compaq that made the original hardware platform for the first AMD BIOS. Edited 2024-05-16 16:53 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| EDNEDN Senior Member Joined: 18/02/2023 Location: United StatesPosts: 118 |
The original IBM PC reference manuals actually published the source code for their BIOS. The early Compaq team developing the clone just grabbed a copy of the ROM and was using that (successfully) for their development work. Then very late in the clone development somebody was thumbing through the reference manual for a different purpose and noticed every page of the BIOS listing had a Copyright notification. An "Oh! sh*t!" moment happened and there was a massive effort put in place to reverse engineer the IBM BIOS in a clean room environment. On the PS-2 IBM loaded the design up with proprietary patented technology and was insisting on a 5% license fee on any clone machine. One thing they did was make the BIOS even bigger and more complex (and call it the ABIOS - Advanced BIOS). They also switched out the ISA (Industry Standard Adapter) bus with the Micro-Channel bus mastering bus. Compaq got its PS-2 clones up and running but an executive decision was made that a 5% fee would keep them from being competitive in the marketplace. The clone work was shelved, and the EISA bus was defined to provide backward compatibility with older adapter cards but also provide 32-bit bus mastering. And we still have BIOS's in our PC's today... |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3800 |
Mick, I'm thinking it was AMIBIOS not AMD BIOS. Those were the days... 640KB should be enough for anyone :) John |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 6783 |
I think you're right, John. :) Ze leetle grey cells are not what zey once were... Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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LeoNicolas Guru Joined: 07/10/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 479 |
My first professional job as a software developer was in the 90's implementing a DOS software in Clipper. DOS is a baby toy if compared with modern operational systems |
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