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Forum Index : Other Stuff : 26th Aug 2007, new CNC router finished
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi all. Spent the last couple of weeks working on a new CNC router design. This is a total revamp of my old router design, learned a lot from the mistakes in that machine and the new one is much stronger, has less parts and is easier to assemble and adjust. What I'm doing is putting together a CNC kit, made from laser cut parts. The kit is designed to be scalable, so you could build, for example, a 2400*1200 ( 8 by 4 foot ) cnc router, or a 3000*1500 cnc plasma cutter. The design uses common RHS box section as the linear bearing rails, not perfect but for timber routing or plasma cutting more than good enough, and very cheap. The design allows easy adjustment to remove any backlash or wear in the rails, and rails are easily replaced with new lengths of box section. For drive you can use either common all-thread, or acme thread for better speed. Software wise I'm trialing EMC2 ( Thanks Vasi for the link ). Its a free linux ( Ubuntu ) cnc software package that does run very well compared to the windows based systems I've tried in the past. I'm struggling with the Linux platform a bit, I found a nice Linux based CAD package, but it needs to be compiled before it runs, and this comes up with errors I dont understand at this stage, but I'll get there. The Ubuntu version of Linux is very nice. 
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Maybe one of the linux guru's can help with this. The program I want to install is called SAGCAM. Its a free 2.5 axis cad/cam package, looks nice. When I try to run ./configure I get the following glenn@glenn-desktop:~/sagcad$ ./configure checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for gawk... no checking for mawk... mawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... no checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnuoldld checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnuoldld checking for style of include used by make... none checking for gcc... no checking for cc... no checking for cc... no checking for cl... no configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH See `config.log' for more details. Now this tells me it couldn't find a C compiler, that much i figured, but it it just a matter of setting the path, or do I need to download and install a C compiler. Arghh, this is why I keep going back to Windows. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hi Glenn, very nice router, I like y axis (linear bearings solution). You downloaded the live CD with ubuntu 6.06 with emc2 instaled on it? I think is a distribution designed for working, not for developement. If you want, you must install it on HDD and install all you need for developement. From a console try this: [code] sudo apt-get install gcc [/code] When ask, give your user password. Also for developement you need kernel sources. But I downloaded the CD and tonight I will install on a partition and see what it need. Then , I will tell you the steps. I forgot to tell , you need a Internet connection. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
You can give me SAGCAM address? I can't find it on Internet ... For 2D .dxf files, you can use QCAD Professional (free for non commercial use) but you need a converter for gcode. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Vasi OK the sudo bit installed gcc ok. I tried the sagcad ./configure again, if found gcc but there errored, see below... checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables The adress for sagcad is http://sagcad.sourceforge.jp/ Glenn PS. I should add, I've done the full Ubunto install onto the HD, got net access ( using the machine now to type this ), and I'm logged in as root. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Yes, it needs more packages to install (more libs), I will try tonight. You can use Synaptic ( synaptic from console or look on menus for "Synaptic Package Manager"), a visual package installer, you can select everything for developement with your mouse. Thank you for address! Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Try this for binary dsistributions. Are rpm packages, but you can install on ubuntu if you have rpm installed (again, use Synaptic, search for rpm word and select ) Binary distro And you must see this (from one of your links) . If you like one of this programs, try first to find it on Ubuntu servers (in Synaptics, you search for keyword), maybe we are lucky to find an already compiled version for Ubuntu (at least, QCAD is ready for install with Synaptic). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I bet on this. Also have a Windows version (CAD program running on a server and NC file sent to a linux station? Nah! Must be a Linux solution). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
YEEEESSSS!!! you can do: [code] sudo apt-get install sagcad [/code] Previously I searced for sagcam and of course, no succes ! Also sailcut is here! Big hurah for Ubuntu. And "eagle" and "pcb" and gEDA tools. And KiCAD Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I tried the sudo apt-get install sagcad but got.. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done E: Couldn't find package sagcad However, I installed RPM like you suggested and then downloaded the RPM version of SAGCAD, and that worked! Yipee. So much to learn in only one little life time 
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1343 |
Hiya Glenn, Eh mate I'm glad your having some sucess with ubuntu, I put it on my laptop to get rid of winblows but every package I downloaded for pic's wouldn't work and I even tried kubuntu without sucess. If you ever need to reload ubuntu or try kubuntu I have some original disks here I'm more than happy to post up to you. Maybe oneday when I finally get a shed puter I might try ubuntu again but after nearly ripping all my hair out last time I aint in any hurry. By the way mate your new cnc machine looks great and I'm very eager for more infomation. Cheers Bryan  |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hi Glenn, I installed emc2-ubuntu6.06. ... You right, no sagcad disponible for this version of linux (My current version is 7.04). But for electronics you have "eagle", "pcb"-pcb designer generating also gerber/RS-274x files , "gerbv"-gerber view. Also QCAD is disponible - 2D dxf files. Is easy to configure (using grafical interface). If you want, I can make a tutorial with pictures here or on your email. I will look for Ace converter to see if I can run on linux, maybe with dos or windows emulator. Yes, for more powerfull CAD/CAM programs you need to buy one for linux or work on Windows. You can contact the guys from linuxcnc.org to ask them what they use. I go there right now :) . When you use apt-get from a terminal first of all you must execute this: [code] sudo apt-get update [/code] to refreshing the packages list. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Nova Newbie  Joined: 29/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3 |
I was going to suggest suggest the following, but I had trouble logging in and it seems you have it sorted now. [code]sudo apt-get install build-essential[/code] Is there a button for adding code? I had to do it manually, luckily it is the same as phpBB forums. Cheers, Nova 
No! No! Please, please, no more! We will find you a shrubbery. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Thank you Nova, I forgot this is the command for installing "everything" (the basic package) for developement. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Thanks guys for the input, its got me started now. Vasi hold off on the tutorial, I'll drop you a email in a couple of weeks. Hey Bryan1, and bit more info for you... This was the first prototype cnc table to prove the linear bearings and laser cut parts all fit together correctly. It worked, though I need to make a few slight changes to a couple of parts, things like this bolt was difficult to get in that hole because that bit was in the way, sort of stuff. My mate and I will be building the next one, with the changes needed, in the next couple of weeks. Looks like we will go for a work area of 2400*1200mm ( mine was only 1000*500 ), and will take a router head and a plasma head, he has a hand held plasma cutter. Once that 2nd prototype is complete, we will build the first production model, assemble it taking photos along the way and write up the construction manual. Then we will look at getting a few of these machines out there at near cost price, mainly to get some feedback on how they went together and any problems. So I'll let everyone know about it when we are ready for that stage, sort of a special offer to members of TheBackShed. There are a couple of software options. Windows based KCam or Mach2 are good for general router use. The Linux based EMC2 is better for more serious machines, plasma cutters, etc. EMC comes with something call HAL, which is used to create interfaces between the software, screen and hardware, ie you could use the HAL layer to display a plasma current control on the computer screen. Costs are not known yet, but the laser cut parts we will supply will be the cheap part of most builds. On my router I have 3 microsteppers worth about $330, 3 steppers at $450, a Pentium 2.4 Gig PC, Power supply, misc parts, so you could spend over $1000 just for the electronics and motors. I did start small with steppers from printers and single step controllers, but soon found you cant beat a microstepper and BIG stepper motor. We are looking at supplying from just the laser cut parts to complete machines. The main goal of these machines was to use cheap easily replaced parts, ie its all SHS ( box section ), and common bearings. A single linear bearing for a commercial router/plasma/laser can cost over $1000 per meter, where you could build a whole machine for that much money if you are willing to occasionally adjust out any blacklash or replace a length of box section. Phew. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1343 |
Hiya Glenn, Thanks for the insite to the CNC mate Now as far as bearings go I'm on a very good wicket with a bearing house over here and I've mentioned to them about my involvment in RE and yes they are very interested in supplying me at better than trade price's. So if you need some bearings for the CNC fire me an email and I'll get some prices for you, ya never know it could workout a heap cheaper.
Edit: I rang my contact at the bearing house today and although they dont normally stock ball screws but he's going to try and get me the best price for them and really if we're going to be seroius about CNC's ball screws are a necessity. But if they workout too expensive I can have a go at making some anti backlash nuts to fit all thread or acme thread. Cheers Bryan  |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I use this program for airfoil shape. The airfoil can be exported in text file and imported in Rhino for modelling. In Rhino can be used RhinoCAM for tool path and executing on CNC. Or exported dxf file can be loaded in KCam . The "JavaFoil" program is in Java and can ne used in any operating system (so, you need java to be installed on your computer). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1343 |
Hiya Glenn, Well mate I got the price of the ball screws and rod today, total cost for a 2.4 metre and 1.2 metre lengths of 25mm threaded bar and 2 ball screw nuts to suit is $1160 ex gst. Bit too pricey for a first prototype in my opnion so I'll get onto my contact at united fastners to see what price they can do on all thread and see if they sell acme thread. Also today I asked 1 of the salemen at work about stepper motors and controllers and he asked for some info on what we need so tomorrow i'll give him some datasheets and hopefully I'll be able to source 500 oz/inch steppers cheaper than ocean controls and if I can get enough interest we will stock them at work. Anyway mate I'm trying to setup so we all can get the best deals to keep the cost down so the cnc can be affordable for everyone. Also mate could you tell me what bearings you are currently using so I can get some pricing and see if I can save you a few bucks on them. Cheers Bryan |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Bryan The Acme thread I used was from United Fasteners. 1/2 inch diameter, 6 turns per inch, came in 12 foot lengths, and I think I paid about $70 per length, very cheap. I also ordered one nut to suit. Well it looked like it was machined in a hobby lathe, very sloppy, so I used it on the Z axis where gravity will take out the backlash. When you order the acme thread make sure they pack it on a lenght of timber, one length I ordered wasn't and arived bent like a banana. For nuts I used a pieces of HDPE ( HDPE or Nylon can be bought cheap as kitchen cutting boards, the thick 10 or 12mm ones. Has a waxy feel to it. ). They were split and then melted onto a heated length of thread, cleaned up and drilled to take adjustment screws, these adjust the slop out of the nut. I'll go into the exact details on how they are made later, but the result is a smooth running HDPE nut with no backlash. Easy to make and replace, keeps with the plan of a machine with easily replaced wear parts. 
For bearings on this model I'm using common skate wheel bearings. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1343 |
Hiya Glenn, Eh mate i finally got a 12' length of 1/2"x6 tpi acme thread only $40.20+gst and I've arranged it so you can get the same price from your local united fastners store. I bought some of the acme nuts and man are they loose, still they'll do for a machine vice I'm making. When I get a chance I'll try the nylon melting method and see how it goes. I'm going to make a small cnc first to get the gist of cnc and I'm making my own pic translator and as I'll be using small steppers I'll drive via a gearbox so I can use full steps so it will be easier first up. I've got hopefully some A3977 chips coming as samples so I'll be also making my own controllers for the big cnc.
Cheers Bryan  |
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