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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Smart Meters, Good or Bad
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
I enclose a letter from a supplier in the USA to Isaiah about the faults and operation of smart meters in that region. Draw your own conclusions as to who it will benefit. Dear Mr. Thank you for your inquiry. There are a lot of questions right now about smart meters as many utilities are in the process of implementation. We actually completed full deployment of our automated meter system in 2005 and have been able to provide quality, real-time data to our members now for many years. In fact, the graph that you see on your monthly bill is a result of the data we are able to retrieve from your meter. The technology allows us to help our members better understand and manage their energy use. I consulted with our engineer to help with answers to some of your questions. If you need further information or clarification, please feel free to ask. We are happy to provide the information. With your new smart meters why are we receiving an estimated bill? In early February our metering system crashed, causing a significant loss of data and functionality. After nearly three weeks of work, we have rebuilt the system and now have a more robust back-up in place to help us avoid this type of loss in the future. In the immediate aftermath of the failure, we were unable to retrieve data through the system, which is why we had to estimate bills in February. How is the signal transmitted from the meter? The signal is transmitted via Power Line Carrier back to the substation, then via 900 Mhz radio back to the office. What means do you have to receive this signal? Collectors in the substation transmit the information back to the office where it is received on a standard radio receiver. What frequency dose the smart meter system operate on? Meters use the 60 Hertz power line and inject a 1-3 kHz wave onto the 60 hertz. Do you have hand outs for the health hazards of the smart meter system? There is a lot of conflicting information about health hazards related to smart meter systems. However, we believe, and your board of directors believes, that this technology is a wise and safe choice for our co-op members and their families. We are all continuously exposed to very low levels of both natural and man$B!>(Bmade radio frequency (RF) fields. Even the earth$B!G(Bs surface and the human body are constant sources of RF fields. Inside your own home you will likely find numerous items that emit RF fields including microwave ovens, cell phones, cordless phones, televisions, Wi$B!>(BFi signals, antennas and receivers as well as lighting. Again, we have significant experience with our own system and have no reason to believe that it has caused or resulted in health hazards of any kind. Just think we used to read the meter ourselves at no cost to you. Now we will probably find it costs you more for the meter reader and office help to process? Even when members were reading their own meters, there was still a cost to the cooperative, and ultimately the members, related to entering and processing data, estimating or sending field personnel to the home when meter reads weren't turned in, etc. Your board of directors approved this undertaking and the associated costs because of the benefit of automation and information. Again, we have been fully deployed for seven years and firmly believe the investment in our infrastructure and system is ultimately a tremendous benefit to you and the other users at the other end of the line. Again, we thank you for taking the time to ask the questions. There are so many misconceptions and assumptions surrounding this technology, and we would much prefer to deal with these kinds of questions directly and continue in our attempts to educate our members. - Katie Mack Customer Care Representative Midwest Energy Cooperative 1-800-492-5989 Fax: 269-445-2380 Foolin Around |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Isaiah posted something a couple of days ago about this. The link he provided pointed to some web site raving on about the US constitution, so I deleted it. I later read on Fieldlines the link Isaiah used was wrong ( he probably should have checked that before posting ), but too late for here, the post was gone. So I take it these smart meters are replacing the old style Wh meters in the house power box. It would mean the power company can read the meters remotely and sack the poor guy who would visit every house and read the meters. I think it would be a cost cutting exercise, most company director backed schemes usually are. What a legal minefield! You cant "guess" how much to charge someone because of your own stuff up! What if the home owner was away on holidays and didn't use any power. Its not uncommon for a power company to estimate the power you used because they couldn't access your meter for some reason, but they will adjust a future bill once they do get access to the meter. In this case, there is no meter, so they cant do that, the data is gone for good. Bad situation. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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shawn Senior Member  Joined: 30/03/2010 Location: New ZealandPosts: 210 |
We have had these smart meters for years (I think)or somthing like them I thought they used a cellphone type signel one thing they don't do is when you plug in those cheap gridtie invertors they canot wind back like the old meter type. |
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| larny Guru Joined: 31/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 346 |
I don't really want to defend the power company, but I expect that the smart meters would have retained the accumulated data even though the company's system crashed. In other words, the meter (like the old ones and like water meters etc.) is not reset when it is read. That means that - regardless of whether the estimate was an over or under charge, the next bill will correct any error. ie. an error one period will be automatically corrected the next period. Len |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
smart meters... the power co. installed a smart meter here last summer, it records and shows usage nearly the same as the old meter, but also it is in contact with the coop. and shows them when you use the most power, (ie) heavy power use at "off peak" times and in the middle of the night are charged a much lower usage rate than at max. peak times where they charge a premium rate. The meter reader still drives by and waves hello, he's retired and has been for years. I seem to like the things, I'll run the washer and dryer at 2am in the morning for 1/2 rates, I'm usually up anyway. The coop also installed 3 kw of solar and 2 1/2 kw of wind generator remote power at their regional office for a public info thing...getting the Joe public informed as to the potential of home based generation. Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac I also have one fitted and I monitored it for 12 months and found it reliable, it isn't on an auto grid yet as the meter reader still comes every three months. No night rate on it though, I asked them to fit it but they refused, so I disconnected the HWS booster element. Here they are encouraging fitting solar panels and GFI for the moment but soon to end I fear. Bob Foolin Around |
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| larny Guru Joined: 31/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 346 |
Bob, What does GFI mean? Len |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi Bob , my friend has solar hot water and his booster element is also connected to the peak tarrif. I think you'll find there is no discount for those connected to solar hot water . On the subject of discounts ,,, I've a sneaky suspicion that all these discounts will disappear in the near future-it's the old ploy,,get them in ,get them used to using whatever , then pull the rug out from beneath.. Bruce. Bushboy |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Len GFI is a "Grid Feed Inverter" also known as a GTI "Grid Tied Inverter". Hi Bruce They did tell me they would connect an off peak meter to the booster on the SHW system but then refused to do it. They even charged me $100 to do it, which they will not refund. I say Bugger their discounts and deals as there are to many strings attached, not to mention grossly inflated prices, I am sick and tired of dealing with the lies from politicians and supplier companies to get you to sign the contract, put in a deposit then fight them to get it done. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| larny Guru Joined: 31/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 346 |
Thanks Bob, Personally, I wish the politicians had not privatised the power & other utilities. We did not have all this nonsense when it was all government owned & operated. I would like to see someone do an objective study of the effects of privatisation. A year or two ago, I read a book called "In government we trust: Market failure & the Delusions of Privatisation" that I found in our council library at Nunawading. It makes interesting reading as it mentions the results of privatisations & Public Private Partnerships in the UK, Australia, New Zealand & possibly Canada. Basically they argue that these things were done to "save the taxpayer money & to pass the risks onto the private sector". But in the cases they mention, it eventually cost the taxpayers dearly & the risk eventually fell upon the government, ie. the govt had to fork out money to fix the mess. Len |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Len The trouble is that all the commercial interests see the populace as something to milk of as much profit as possible, when it was government run they where to some degree answerable to the public as if they made bad decisions they where not there for long, but when it was sold to private corporations they collected the money and had someone else to blame. The good thing is that it encourages us to put other systems in place to replace the vultures. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
governments are simply pimps for big business. whether smart meters are advantageous for "us" or "them", smart meters are what they are passing out now. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Electrodaddy1 You can be sure that they are not good for us it will mean more profit or reduced costs for the issuer, that's the world we live in. if we want we must pay. More incentive to do our own thing and push our message to all the interested persons trying to get off grid or reduce grid use. Trouble is we are all addicted to power use as all the conveniences of life are tied to the commercial interests of government and utilities. A few more panels and another wind turbine. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
Gizmo, yes I had the wrong link in that post . to let you know my elect company never had a meter reader!! We read the meter ourselves and sent it in with our payment. Ive been on this line for over 40 years and never herd any complaints about people cheating on reading the meter. your bound to have some on any system. now the second month after their equipment crash we get a prorated bill. i have two meters Bub73 has one and my son has one with this company and three of the four were higher than last month and it was warmer weather and Bub73 has total elect house the electric furnace is a killer. I think we need to keep a very close eye on them. URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi All My smart meter is getting very hot so I complained to the meter reader last week, he just said if it catches fire to ring up our supplier and they will replace it, I said what about my shed it's mounted on, he said hope you got it insured. So much for service. Bob Foolin Around |
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| larny Guru Joined: 31/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 346 |
My recollection is that, in the past, meter boxes were lined with cement sheet so a fire in the box would not affect the house. Some years ago, we had a power surge because a HT cable fell across the 240 Volt lines and the meter box at one of our neighbour's houses caught on fire; but the sheet kept it in the box thus saving the house. Our house was further away from the point of contact, but nevertheless, we had several appliances damaged by the surge, but at least our meter did not catch on fire. In those days, we had proper regulations. These days, with private ownership of the power companies, it is Rafferty's rules. Len |
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