 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Other Stuff : SAFE Hydrogen Generator
Page 1 of 2   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
MacGyver Guru  Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Crew This subject matter has gone round and round this forum time and again. I have done years and years of researching methods of producing hydrogen gas from water and finally just gave up, it being too dangerous. FINALLY I have stumbled across a method thought up by someone way more clever than myself. Click This Link and watch the Youtube video. Pay close attention to the device, which is made of glass. It could be made of plastic for a song and be just as safe. In the video, they mention that "platinum" foil is used for the electrodes. They're absolutely correct, but who can afford that? Another, more-reasonably-cost-effective and stable electrode is high-nickel-content stainless steel. Hydrogen (chemically speaking) has an "affinity" for nickel metal. When you mix up your "electrolyte" make sure there is NO chlorine in the water. Use reverse-osmosis or distilled water or you'll wind up making poisoness gas (choring gas) as well as sodium hydroxide (lye)! Here's a trick: mix bicarbinate of soda and pure water (a teaspoon of soda to 2 cups of pure water) to make your electrolyte, then make one electrode out of high-nickel-content stainless steel rod and the other out of pure aluminum rod. I can't remember which is the cathode (+) and which is the anode (-) but I'll look back in my lab notes (yes, I keep lab notes) and get back here with the answer. The reason I'm telling you this is because the electricity will pass in only one direction (this setup effectively creates a diode) so in reality, it won't work well if you hook it up backwards. When it's connected properly, production is based on current (that'd be direct current, by the way) and not voltage and the amount of hydrogen produced is far and away more than using any other electrode including platinum foil. I've tried this and know from experience; this works great! The trick is to physically separate the two electrodes so the two gases (hydrogen and oxygen) DON'T MIX. If they mix, the mixture is called "Brown's Gas" and it is HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE. I had the city bomb squad pay me a visit courtesy of a little lab mishap concerning Brown's Gas, so take my advice and don't go there! Once you have separated the two gasses, the partial pressure of the hydrogen gas production is sufficient to inflate a latex baloon. That trapped pure hydrogen gas can then be attached to a naturally-aspirated burner in either a Bunson Burner or a small gas (camp style) burner and you can cook or heat with it. DISCLAIMER: (You didn't think I'd post something like this without a "weazle clause" did you?) I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY TRIED THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO'S METHOD YET, BUT FROM WHAT I CAN SEE ON THE VIDEO COUPLED WITH MY PAST HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE, I THINK THIS WILL FLY AND BE A SAFE METHOD OF PRODUCING HYDROGEN GAS FROM WATER AND KEEPING IT SEPARATED FROM THE OXYGEN, WHICH IS CO-PRODUCED IN THE REACTION. The electricity used to drive the reaction can come from PV (solar) or from a wind turbine (direct current). In case you're asking why I'm all excited about this, here's why: This gives all us backshed-ers a method for storing wind and solar energy. Now, I realize you don't want a derrigible-sized condom full of hydrogen gas in your living room, so this will take a little planning. For those who live in the bush, no problem. City dwellers will still border on dealing with the city bomb squad, but if you were to make only enough gas to run a small generator or to cook with, it wouldn't pose as much a problem as having a vast amount stored in the closet! WE STILL NEED TO BE CAREFUL, but this method gets things into the realm of doable whereas in the past, we all had to deal with Brown's Gas (see above). I'll build one out of PVC plastic pipe and get the kinks out, then post a build. This really is a BIG DEAL! Are you kidding? This is a HUGE DEAL! Edit: Use stainless steel as the cathode (+) - I checked it in my notes from 14 years ago! . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Anybody: AFTER posting this, it dawned on me the flame in the demonstration was blue. From memory, hydrogen burns with a colorless flame or maybe a little yellow, being oxidized with water vapor present in the delivery stream. Anyone else out there with hydrogen experience. Anyone own a "Water Torch"? Like I said before, I haven't actually tried this as far as doing it like it has been demonstrated in the Youtube video, so as soon as I have some hard data, I'll post it here, but from here it looks like it may be a viable way for us to utilize "free" potential energy (not to be confused with Free Energy, which is something from nothing) from wind and solar. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Some electric switches have platinum contacts. Which ones, I can't tell. I had long time ago some of those. I have some kind of "pills" where it make the electrical contact. You can source them and melt then. I think... Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
vasi Thanks for the input, Vasi. Now that I think about it, gold would probably not react either. To the best of my knowledge, the only thing gold reacts with is nitric acid. I have a lot of gold hanging around from when I did gold prospecting as a hobby. Maybe I'll make some electrodes and try it out. Until then, the stainless steel / aluminum rod combination I mentioned earlier in the post works for sure and works well. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Back To Is It Hydrogen or Is It Fake?: I've viewed the Youtube video several times and the scene changes from making hydrogen to making "producer" gas without actually saying so up front. If you listen closely, the voice changes and the NEW guy describes the large, vivid-blue flame as coming from its storage container, the latex weather balloon, that holds " . . . the gas that we have gasified and produced". He then mumbles someting about making gas from coal as well. That would be what we call "producer gas" and is carbon based (CH4). Without seeing this subtlty in the video production, one is led to believe the blue lame is hydrogen. Not so! My hunch is the blue flame is actually methane burning and not hydrogen. Like I said, I remembered hydrogen as having a colorless and VERY HOT flame, so the blue flame was a flag on the play that had "Fake" written all over it. I'll continue to investigate this and build a contraption to test things, then get back here with the results good or bad. I'm going to be using stainless steel and aluminum rods as electrodes. I'll also build one with solid gold electrodes somewhere down the road and then compare the results. My hunch here is the gold will be as "non-reactive" as the platinum. I don't want to buy platinum ribbon merely to "try it out" but I have lots of pure gold kicking around my shop already, so I'll use that instead. I have all the confidence in the world that I can use this contraption to produce safe hydrogen from green fuels like PV and wind turbine direct current. There are several subtle "beautiful" parts to this guy's contraption that only a person, who has already done lots of hydrogen research would see. This one's a "keeper". . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac I have played with browns gas HHO for a torch and found that the flame is varying in color from the tip to the outer extremity from near colorless to blue turning to orange on the outsides, I also noticed the color changes a bit with the electrolyte and the metal it is heating. When using hydrogen and oxygen from cylinders the center part of the flame is near colorless to very light blue surrounded with a darker blue, that was in a cutting torch, in a welding torch it tails out to a very light orange on the outside. When fusion welding withe the flame it seems to vary in color dependent on the material being welded. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Bob Thanks for the reply. How did you control the Brown's Gas without it exploding? All my attempts ended in disaster. For that reason, I was (am) in hopes that using the Hoffman apparatus featured in the little Youtube video would be a method to produce CLEAN hydrogen, stripped of ANY oxidation. That to me seems a safer way to handle this product gas. My intention is to construct a Hoffman's apparatus using PVC to put it into the hands of all the backshed folk, but I want to make sure it's a safe project first. At this point in time, since hydrogen is the smallest element, I intend storing it under water in an inverted metal canister. I will also install a "water trap" prior to its ignition point just to be on the safe side. I've actually had the city bomb squad called on my behalf back in the day; can't be too careful with something like this. I'd rather not go down that road again! . . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mack I used it at low pressure and made the system an on demand unit controlled by pressure and some little stainless steel floats a secondary storage chamber for gas storage with a flash lock either side of it, made with a stainless steel scourer on a water chamber. The separated system was a U tube made of 4 inch poly drain pipe the gas collected above the water and forced the water down until it turned on a float switch that turned on a diaphragm type compressor that compressed the hydrogen to 35 psi and the same on the oxygen side, you need to be careful with the diaphragm composition as some react with oxygen under pressure, and do not let any oil near it. The gas colander is a good way to store the gas, but the pressure isn't high enough to be useful for cutting, but will work for welding. After playing with it I decided that a plasma cutter was the best option for cutting and MAP gas the best for welding, a lot less trouble and no Bomb squad needed. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Bob I went to the box store today and picked up a few PVC caps and tees. I'll slam together a Hoffman's Apparatus in the next day or two and use stainless and aluminum electrodes to check out the claims made in the Youtube video. If I'm confident there is no cross-contamination leaving the hydrogen oxidized with me unawares, I'll try storing it under water with a flash-back trap and hook it up to a burner, then get back here with the results. I realize I'm not likely to discover anything earth shattering, still it would be a good way to store excess green energy in place of having a grid tie or even a dump load. Now that I think about it, the hydrogen generator could even be used as a dump load and if there were enough fuel to allow one to cook with it, this would be a real boon for those who maybe live off grid, but don't have a large enough turbine to do much more than charge a battery or two. I'm in that boat (by choice) more or less. Anyone know what orofice size is used on a naturally-aspirated hydrogen burner? . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| kcarring Newbie  Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
I have a 12 volt dry cell HHO generator I am converting to a 110v version, 58 plate unit that should put out about 4-5 lpm (min.), my 12v, right now, does about 1.8 lpm. I can say that the color in the video comes from the electrolyte. Likely he was using KOH, and the potassium creates blue. NaOH, or lye, as an electrolyte produces yellowish/orange, which is what I use. The device he is using is a variant of the classic Hoffman Voltameter, as far as I can see. If you collected the hydrogen, and stored it low pressure in large, but used propane tanks, you'd probably be fine. Thing is, you'd need a field of them to equate to the energy stored in a single 100 lb. propane tank. There is, however, a gentleman 100% off the grid, with youtube videos, who does - just that. He then feeds the hydrogen into a fuel cell to produce electricity (expensive!). Better to use it for heat, really. Oxyhydrogen itself sucks for heat production, however, if you fire a small flame on a small block of high quality magnesium alloy, it'll go white hot, and you can use that to heat an ammonium based heat exchanger (RV fridge). All in all though, excessive solar energy might better be (collected and stored long term) by tracking the sun in parabolic, using that energy (at 50% efficiency instead of 16%), boiling salts and storing undeground in highly insulated bunkers for reclamation, later. Again, expensive. Here's a thought: raise water. Then use very micro hydro. Take advantage of TSO, two stage oscillation. It is a very hot topic right now. Independant oscillators. Stop Stage one, stage two still runs. Stop stage two, stage one still runs. Not gears. Not pulleys - those are single stage. Stop a flywheel, and its drivewheel stops too. Newtons laws apply only to "CLOSED SYSTEMS". Two stage oscillators are not a closed system, and behave, unexpectedly. Think heat pumps. RV fridges. They are two stage and COP > 1. See this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6017-pendulum -hydro-pump-double-pendulum-hammer.html And this site: http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/ Use as pump to raise water. Power it with a Bedini attractive magnetic pendelum (and charge/desulphate batteries simultaneously? Use it in another application to then run a PMA on the hammer end for power generation COP > 1? And this one: http://gravityassistedpower.com/ Compress air, then reproduce electricity later at 80% efficiency? Cool stuff, worth a look anyway. Raise water, then do work at COP > 1. Is it possible, is it a means for solar and wind power storage? Possibly. Cheers. |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
kcarring Thanks for all the information and links. I'll look at the links later, but thought I should clear up my intentions. All I was really after by creating this thread was a way to use passive solar or wind energy to accumulate hydrogen has, then at a later date, reuse the gas in a more conventional "machine" to extract its hidden potential energy. My past experiences using hydrogen all ended in big bangs, because I couldn't get the oxygen out of the mixture. With what I've presented here, that problem has been solved. As for heating salts and storing the heat that way, I've already conqured that one. The solar concentrating device is something I came up with years and years ago, but destroyed both it and the plans, because of it being easily turned into a weapon. It concentrates 10,000 "suns" into a 2" coherent "beam" of light. It does not lase; it's white lite, a mixture of frequencies. I have thought about rebuilding a small version again, but don't look for it on the 4m, because like I said, with a couple small modifications, it can be used as a VERY powerful weapon. Edit: I looked at the links. The gravity one is cool but a couple of the others are IMHO a little hocus-pocus! . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| kcarring Newbie Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
Interesting stuff. The Milkovic looks VERY hocus pocus. Until you build it. Then it makes you go, huh? And really, it is very close to Feltenberger (commercially available and working internationally to provide water to Haiti, etc.) EXCEPT BETTER. I built one and it still blows my mind. You tap you finger to keep the pendelum swinging... yet ... try with all your might to stop the hammer end. Energy in = Energy out? Hard to believe when you actually build one. On mine, I can tap with one finger to operate it.. yet... the output could crush every bone in my hand... * note: The first link, it is an error. I am still trying to find the proper video on youtube. It's very cool, it goes like this: Take a small stream of water, for example a portion of diverted streamwater, or a small outlet from a gravity raised tank of water. Let that run in a hose, .. and at the end of the hose, clamp a 10mm piece of rebar onto the end of the hose (loosely) with gear clamps. The effect you are looking for is the end of the hose to be formed into a "C", or smiley face. Now, take that hose end, and place it in a fairly large (1 or 2 gallon) flexible, expandable bladder of sorts. Think heavy duty, tough balloon. Reinforce the "neck" of this bladder with a small section of pipe, a collar - that will facilitate another hose (not attached to first) into the same bladder. this is the water outlet. both hoses go in the bag, but the feed has a c-end, if you will (the smiley face end). Completely seal the bladder with marine goop. Such that it wont leak under pressure. Ok... Now, hang the bladder on a very sturdy stand, suspended by a heavy-ish spring. So, one spring (attached to your "collar") goes up to the stand,... and another spring goes down to the ground, to a dynamo generator. The dynamo generator is affixed and steadfast to a base affixed well to the ground (cannot be lifted). The water goes into the bladder and starts and oscillation pattern, in conjunction with the mass of the once-filled bladder. A violent jerking starts. The springs stop the bladder from really going any where. The mass of the 20 lb (or more) bag bobbing and jerking voilently tugs at the dynamo creating a decent current at a low voltage. Use a cap dump circuit to charge batteries. Neat idea. PS> Idea for hydrogen storage UNTESTED BEWARE I've often wondered about, first, digging a (large) circular pit. Line the pit with chicken wire, about 6-10 high. Line that with tar paper. Line that with black/white sileage tarp (available in 30' wide rolls). I used the stuff to build a top for my yurt, its good stuff. That's your "pond liner". This method within itself is a great way to make a water storage containment vessle. The corral alone will be strong enough to contain thousands of gallons of water (even above ground). Combined with earth sidewalls, you've got a pool. Ok... Then take an old waterbed bladder and plumb it to the surface with low pressure tubing. Put something VERY VERY heavy in the middle of the bladder to hold it down. Fill the pool with water. Now use that to contain hydrogen. No, this is not safe! But its a hell of lot better than that balloon in the video. Any of you who have (like me) exploded even a bit of hydrogen, or oxyhydrogen in my case know it BANGS. It will deafen you. And create concussive waves that will make your brain bleed. My logic is, if you cannot afford 9 600 gallon propane tanks, perhaps you can make the storage of some LOW PRESSURE hydrogen, a bit safer. Somehow. Remember, hydrogen will escape almost ANYTHING. And I mean anything. It is (the?) one of the smallest molecules, and to truly pressurize it you need hydrogen rated equipment ($$$$$$). |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
kcarring Some of the "energy" stuff you talk about borders on what is termed "Free Energy" which is a type of "magic" that says you can step backwards one step and somehow be magically propelled up two. In reality, it doesn't actually work. It's not so much science as it is fantacy. We'd all like to think we could run our house on a turbine and alternator no larger than a shoe box. It doesn't work. I know; I've built all manner of itty-bitty turbines and alternators (check my profile!). That's not to say all this isn't interesting and fun; it is. In fact, I'm currently building another itty-bitty axial-flux alternator and wind turbine. This one will be called "An Iron-core Axial-Flux" and as soon as it's flying, I'll post the build. Will it run my entire home? Hell no. Will it be fun to build and incorporate all the interesting theories we bandy about here on the 4m? You bet! Just the same, thanks for your input. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| kcarring Newbie Joined: 16/09/2011 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
"Some of the "energy" stuff you talk about borders on what is termed "Free Energy" which is a type of "magic" that says you can step backwards one step and somehow be magically propelled up two. In reality, it doesn't actually work. It's not so much science as it is fantacy." In reality, it's easy to confuse reality with specialty. Much of what I speak of has absolutely NOTHING to do with free energy, no more than a solar panel does. There is a REASON why pumpjacks weigh 5 tons, instead of using a hydraulic ram piston pump in a 500 lb encasement. There is a reason Feltenbergers pump was shipped to Haiti for disaster relief. Do your homework, and you shall learn; The laws of conservation of energy states: The law of conservation of energy is a law of physics. It states that the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant over time (is said to be conserved over time). A consequence of this law is that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed: it can be transformed from one form to another or transferred from one place to another. The only thing that can happen to energyin an isolated system is that it can change form: for instance chemical energy can become kinetic energy; energy can enter or leave a closed system. Ahh! The finer points of science! In a closed system. In an isolated system. Neither The Milkovic pendelum, nor The Felternberger pendelum are closed or isolated systems. Not any more than a heat pump is. Or a geothermic system. Or a wind turbine, or a solar panel. The proof? In an isolated system things happen by cause and effect. Take the gear or pulley or lever. The work done on the business end is closed and isolated, directly able to effect or influence the input end, or vice versa; if the input end is stopped - so is the business end. In a two stage oscillator; not so: you can forcefully (if your strong enough) stop the business end - the hammer - and - the pendulum still swings away. The systems influence each other; sure - but - they are not an isolated, closed system. But why take my word for it, why not read what the engineers, scientists and physicists in his country have written? http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/MisljenjeEng.html There is no magic my friend, only science - and fear not breaking rules, they are correct. But you do have to read them carefully! And as for my words, they are also formed correctly. There is nothing magic about the term COP > 1. It means coefficient of performance. Do not mistake that term for overunity, or free energy. While these terms are often used BY OTHERS in regards to such devices, I don't buy it - I believe it completely explainable mathematically, not unlike a pumpjack on an oil field, a centrifuge or the sling shot effect of space craft launch Take the heat pump. It consumes less energy in joules to compress the gases and do the heat exchange, than if you were to simply heat the air inside the building. This is because the outdoor ambient heat gives up energy. The systems are not closed, and thus it has a coefficient of performance > 1. Is it free energy? Of course not. Is it a closed system? No, and therefore we are not in violation. The exact same principle takes place when you offset a mass (2nd stage), start it's oscillation, with a swinging pendelum, of smaller mass (1st stage). Do not confuse this with outlandish claims of "free energy", it is a commercially viable, proven and "in use system". http://youtu.be/B7jCGk6jvME I too, do not believe in free energy, I believe in systems that draw energy from the environment to affect the coefficient of performance, which IS SCIENCE. Now, in good faith... You don't have to believe that 50 million oil pump jacks use gravity assist, or that space ships take advanatage of gravitational sling effect, or that centrifuges improve pressure... and this thread isn't about that! So let's return to some points ON TOPIC... 1. I have created a lot of HHO with constant voltages. It's easier. What about the fluctuations in voltage of solar. How do we overcome that? Electrolysis likes consistent potential drop between anode and cathode, fluctuations effect efficiency. Somehow, I see the Hoffman arrangement, compacted closer together in a pseudo dry cell "looking thing" - but - with the bottom and top (bubbles flow uphill) logic of a Hoffman. Less electrolyte, more plate. If ran on 12v, perhaps - when the available voltage dropped, some plates (and thus chambers) would shut off, and correct the potential across the remaining plates, back closer to the optimum (1.9-2.3v). Your thoughts? 2. Also, the Hoffman device was never made to be efficient. Youtube users like HHOPWR have built very efficient HHO devices, but what are the parameters needed to improve the simple Hoffman device, to insure efficiency. It was never built for efficiency, in fact it wasn't built for anything other than demonstrations, as far as I know. There's too much liquid vs. reactive space, for one thing. 3. Have you thought about a salt bridge that would live "under the reaction"? 4. Have you seen the commercially available devices that do exactly what you want? They exist. They look more like HHO drycells but they do separate. There is an Australian who has a seperation cell, I have the plans, I bought them from him. It is membrane based, but looks and feels like an HHO dry cell. I spoke with him and he did not suggest compression of his said "seperated" H2, he's never done it. I ahve to admit tho, his device is the closest I have seen to the "appearance" of the commercially available seperators. 5. Have you considered the flame speed of H2? Have you thought about slowing it down during final ignition to do work, possible final mixture with methane from a gas digestor? 6. For whatever reason, I keep coming back to the idea of large constructed solar panels that deliver huge amps at a lower voltage, charging low voltage cells. My best electrolysis has been done at 2.34 volts, with 20% NaOH. I've obtained about 4.8 MMA. If we don't really need 12v's, should we not bring in more amps per square meter? Of course, we can't buy 4v 20 amp panels, BUT... I have found a cool link to a vacuum table build, such that panels of any configuration COULD be made. Any logic here? 7. Now this is a bit off the wall BUT -- lately my logic is this. So far, with my 1700 watt array I have not effectively dump loaded to anything other than heating water - AND - I can heat water by sun more effectively during those huge sun days. This year however, like you... I ahve been really thinking about energy storage. And that is why I like this thread. I haven't got the problem beat BUT - one thing I did do, was dump loads to large banks of RED LEDs. Energy storage in the form of enhanced flowering in my greenhouse during august. Better than nothing, and it is storage in my mind: storage by way of nutrition. Cheers |
||||
| electrondady1 Senior Member  Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
i think you could set up a cell using a toilet bowl float valve to keep the electrolyte level up as the water is consumed that H shape is a good one but if the electrode level is higher than the point there the current runs through the electrolyte it is easier to keep the gasses from mixing. electricity can go around corners but bubbles can't so more like Y keeping the electrodes up in the V |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
electrondady1 That's an excellent point. I've mocked up a PVC aparatus and I think I'll take your suggestion when I get back to it with glue. The hard part for me at this juncture, not having yet actually constructed and tested this thing, is how much partial pressure each gas will exert on a closed system. In an open system, it would be the weight of the water columns, but in a closed system, that would change. Ideally, I'd like to be able to let this run closed, while adding replacement electrolyte on the fly, so check valves on the gas portions of the exits will be necessary. What I don't want is for one gas to have a partial pressure enough to back the system up into a spill-over situation. I always like to do the experiment in my head before actually running it in real time just to see if there are any things I should maybe be more aware of than to just fly by the seat of my pants. That's why I mocked it up in PVC first off. I'm glad now that I waited to see this post before gluing it all together. After it's up and running, I'll post all the tinkering results here on the 4m. That testing time is, unfortunately, several projects deep at this point in time. Thanks. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac A couple of little float switches will take care of differing water levels to vent or collect gas. Also keep the electrolyte coulomb higher than necessary to give a safety margin and have the intermediate connectors sloping down to the center to prevent gas crossover. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Crew I think when I glue this thing together, I'm going to use a Tee at the center and keep each electrode about a half inch above the intersection at each side. One electrode will be aluminum, while the other will be high-nickel content stainless steel. I'll insulate the input shafts coming from the bottom of each leg using rubber tubing, so there'll be no stray electron swapping. I'll try to remember to take photos as I put it together, so the next guy has it easier. Thanks for all the input so far. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
TEA20 Newbie Joined: 10/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 7 |
Hi Guys... any progress on this subject, I thought about trying this powered by wind and again thought id check the forum to see if anyone has done anything like this... well here I am. Muchea W.A. |
||||
| electrondady1 Senior Member Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
i made a bit of hydroxy gas yesterday. running four little vertical mills (7sq.ft.each) i rectified each separately and combined the outputs. same old glass jar and crusty sodium hydroxide residue as from two years ago. two stainless steel forks as electrodes. the combined amperage made a good volume of bubbles. off now to the shop to make more windmills. |
||||
| Page 1 of 2 |
|||||
 Print this page |
