Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:00am 30 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
With the first proper cold day right at the start of winter, more or less, I got back to playing with the submerged burner/ House heater today I have been mucking round with.
Wasn't quite going to plan there for a bit and I did the mods I thought needed but was too unmotivated to try them. For efficiency and simplicity, I wanted to use the burner itself as the heat exchanger. The idea is to sink the main 6" tube in a drum of water, probably a metal 44 or an IBC which will be insulated and circulate the water though a radiator in which the hot air is draw off and ducted into the house for heating.
The thing will run on waste oil so be nil cost. It can get to -5 where I am and the place having more single panel glass than walls is a thermal efficiency nightmare. Based on calculations I did last winter, I reckon I need around 10 Kwh to keep the whole place warm and heat soak it to keep the temp even and get everything in the place cosy. This burner will do that easily and can be turned down as needed. The upper limit with the little blower I have is about 30 Kw atm.
The burner is essentialy 3 parts. The main tube which acts as the heat exchanger, the flame holder which being isolated from the cooling effect the main tube experiences will get hot, hopefully glow red to burn off all the carbon deposits, and the air/ Fuel tube which as name implies, takes the air and the fuel down into the burn chamber and spreads the air through the main tube for complete combustion. Parts can be seen in the pics. There is also a pulse type fuel pump which is controlled by a cycle timer and a 12V Bilge blower.
I knew because the main tube would be cooled by the water and run way under the 600OC minimum I wanted, I would have to have an insert that was not cooled and tried a couple of different things like a stainless steel bowl and different configs of the burn chamber. I had the air holes in the down pipe a bit small in the lower region so opened them up for more air turbulance. I finally cut the windows with the little flaps to direct flame back down onto itself and keep at a temp that would vaporise the oil and burn off the deposits. This is critical because over a period of time, and not a long one with this small a chamber, the deposits from the oil would build up and block it. About 600 is where the carbon burns off and a chamber self cleans.
The main tube will burn awesome in air as I have tested and throws ridiculous radiated heat and I was going to go that way with a direct air system but after endless procrastination and uncertainty I could move the heat away fast enough and any problem would have a direct path into the house, I decided to go back to a Liquid he exchange system. This morning in single digit temps I decided to give the thing another fire up ( most appropriate day so far this year here) and see how it went. Surprisingly well would be an appropriate term.
Fired up easily and with previous fuel settings on the timer board running the pulse pump, I had the 200L Drum of water boiling in just under 90 min! That translates to more than 15Kw of energy being imparted into the water. That is with the drum uninsulated and the water evaporating on the boil which also takes a lot of heat energy away. This tallys with the fuel burnt which was around 3L. It would take about 22Kwh of energy to boil the water without losses so I'm pretty happy with about a 50% efficiency ratio in this very rudimentary test setup . Even commercial wood fire heaters are lucky to get about 70% efficiency and I know I can probably get this up quite a bit more with some disruptor's in the chamber to swirl the air more and maybe even a heat exchanger on the exhaust gasses.
It's all running off 12V atm and mainly solar powered. First couple of hours run was crappy then the sun came out and the panels charged the battery right up again. The draw is very low, the pulse pump takes about nothing and the fan is only 60W I think. I may turn it down anyway with a PWM when the house is warm and I don't need all the available heating.
I had the thing burning on used engine oil and ran great and now running it on used veg and also doing well. The veg when cold is a bit harder to pump than the engine oil though so maybe I could look at locating a day tank for the fuel where it will stay warm. Next step now is to do the plumbing.
I'll get a 200L drum and put it on a stand after wrapping it in insulation. I have a couple of hot water circ pumps so I will use one of them to take water from the drum, push it through a hose to a heater core or radiator and duct the air into the house. I got an old heater core I literaly have had at least 40 years and a car cabin blower and housing and the fat heater core fitted right on the blower intake os that is what I will use. I have often though how much heat a car heater puts out and have been told it can be 1/3rd the cars cooling capacity so I'll put it to the test. If that is not sufficient I have a car radiator with fans but that will be overkill so I may look at a bike one.
I'll test like that and see how I go but I do have a view to sink the burner into an IBC I'll insulate and use that as a heat reserve which when up to tem, would give me a reserve of about 70 Kwh of heat storage. That should be plenty just to run the pump and the fan at night and keep the place cosy over night.
Will depend how I find running this, how much heat I actually need once the place is warmed and if I can turn down the heat sufficiently... or just open another window. I am going to pull cool air into the house because last night I noticed the draft coming into the place under the new Doors. The draft stoppers are high but I was amazed at the airflow coming in and wondered if it was coming in, where it was getting out? Thought today the only place can be the bathroom extractors.
By having the warmed air drawn in, the place is effectively pressurised so any drafts are going out and the place is not stuffy. Set up like this last winter with the diesel heater and got the big thumbs up from the women folk whom also thought it was beautifully warm without being at all stuffy like the reverse cycle tends to make it.
Had the setup running 8 hours now on veg and diesel oil and from about 20 Kw output down to what should be about 5 ATM. The thing does make a slight rumble but is not in any way annoying. Quite the opposite actually. The neighbors messaged me the other night when I was testing it as they could hear it when they came out the back. I asked if it was annoying at all but then said no, could only just heart it when they came out and thought it might have been a pump running or a hose or something.
Early with the fire up, metal is on there to retain the heat a little better and the burn chamber insert that sits in the bottom of the main tube. The copper pipe is the oil feed which goes to the bottom of the air tube.
This shows the air section with holes along the length to push the heat to the sides of the burner Tube. I might re do this and put larger but fewer holes. Was originally going to be a blue flame burner but not appropriate for this submerged design.
How it all sites in the burner tube.
When it's all done I'll clean this hodge podge up and have some metal tube to replace the PVC so I might be able to pre heat the air from the exhaust.
90 minj flat and I had a rolling boil on 200L of water. Perfect! could get it to an hour or less I think but old story, efficiency would go out the window.
Quick shot before the camera fogged up looking into the burn chamber with teh flame at the bottom. The heat transfer isn't bad because the bit of the tube that extends out the water flashed to steam any liquid it touches and soon recovers again. version 2 I might get a bend and duct the exhaust through some smaller metal and back down again through the water to extract more heat.
The burner was a bit of a challenge to get right with the air holes, I was being too conservative trying to work off another design. Going back to what I thought and knew.
The challenge with these things is not the burners, it's the heat transfer. I am hoping that what I have in mind will deliver the heat I want but if not there are other fallbacks. My only concern at this time is the 3.4" Hose I intend to use as I can't find anything to give me an idea of the heat content of a 3/4Hose at a specific LPM and temperature. The heater core I have is 5/8 and car heaters seem to be able to deliver heat from hell so hopefully should be OK.
Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648
Posted: 01:43pm 30 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
How do you start this burner Davo? throw a match down that hole ?
Also, what's the purpose of that 'thing' hanging from a S hook on top of the tube?
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852
Posted: 11:46pm 30 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Love it Dave, that's an awesome start. Can't wait to see how it goes.
And the waste oil you're using is untreated, so no extra work there?Cheers, Roger
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 08:17am 31 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Almost!
I run the pump a bit to get some oil in the burn chamber. I then get some metho and power that in there and then light it from dribbling it down the side of the air tube. I think in the final setup I'll have gas in the fuel tube and could probably drop a match or a lit bit of paper and then turn on the gas and preheat that way.
Also, what's the purpose of that 'thing' hanging from a S hook on top of the tube?
It's an old tow hitch. It's just a counter weight to keep the thing stable with the weight of the blower hanging out there. The thing has a bit too much buoyancy in water although sitting out the tank on some bricks it's fine... which it's also sitting on in the tank to stop it potential melting the plastic.
When I put it in the 44 which I was working on today, I will cut a hole in some metal and slip the tube through then tack weld so it is supported and can't go anywhere.
Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1022
Posted: 08:18am 31 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
That looks like A Tow bar tongue as a Counter weight. But I could be wrong.
I think the car radiator will be the best bet later on. With the cool water return, it could be preheated from the hot exhaust at the top, probably don't need much of a heat exchange, perhaps the water just running down the outside of the hot exhaust pipe might be enough or extend it a little.
Good effort so far, I like the idea and will keep watching to see how it evolves. I do wonder how much the temperature will drop overall when the water is circulating through the radiator, I expect the exhaust to be much cooler when in use as it will take the boil off very quickly. Edited 2022-05-31 18:21 by RevlacCheers Aaron Off The Grid
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 08:28am 31 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
So far the only "treatment" is the Veg oil settling. Just pump it from the top of the drum and into a 20L and feed the burner with that.
The engine oil I got from my mate I did the same thing but it hasn't got much settling time but it's clean and there is no water or anything in it. It's all diesel oil and seems to burn better than the veg I have been getting. A lot of that was pretty wet. I could hear it sizzling in the burner and though that I had done a dodgy welding job with the main tube onto the plate but leaving it in the tank for 3 days showed not a drop inside which kind of surprised me given how much moisture I could hear cracking off.
I probably will filter the veg though some felt I bought a roll of cheap years ago for this purpose because the amount I envisage using I will definitely get some crap that will block the pump or something so better to just run it though and be done with it.
I want to do some oil for the tractor and generators so I Might run some though the Drier for the burner and see how that goes. I know in vehicles the difference between running dry and undried oil is HUGE. Not many people do dry their oil but seems like madness to me not to.
Don't need to get the oil to " Sippin" quality for just a burner but I think what I have could benefit from it and be worthwhile. That said, when I was doing a lot of veg for my own vehicles and mates, it was VERY easy to do 1000L in a weekend and I did 1000 in a day several times in summer. Bit slower in winter but still wouldn't be any great effort to do it all to fuel quality then it wouldn't matter what I used it for.
The diesel engine oil is going REALLY well so that doesn't need any prep from what I can see.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 08:53am 31 May 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Today I enlarged the hole at the bottom of the air delivery tube to create more turbulence in the burn chamber.
After yesterdays test run there was a lot of buildup still in the burn chamber but it was all dry and hard. Tells me just needs a bit more air to turn it all the way to ash and blow it out.
I added 2 More " wings" to the air delivery tube and stitched up a lot of the smaller air holes along the length of the tube and drilled out one larger hole further up for more air turbulence.
Fired the thing up again and was immediately evident the mods worked. The thing lit fully within 60 seconds and flared a little as the excess oil burned off all going to vapour quickly. It settled down and then after a few minutes flared up again even though I hadn't touched the fuel setting. I believe this was residue in the bottom of the main tube cooking off because after about 5 Min it settled down again.
If this is getting hot enough to burn the oil in the main tube, then first I am very surprised and second I'm really happy that I can get that much localised heat inside a submerged bit of steel. Bit wary that is possible but certainly won't be disappointing if it has and I'll see if I can burn it without the insert. I have noticed today the carbon has all burned off the lower half of the main chamber which does show very clean and Intense burning. Normally carbon would stick to the sidewalls like that being cooler than the combustion gasses so that is another good indicator.
Still running it now so will have to wait till the morning to see how clean it is in the burn chamber. I have switched to veg and will run with that a while to make sure that is combusting properly and if I get less buildup. in the past I have found WMO to leave more residue than veg. The WMO burns better but the veg may burn cleaner. If so I'll definitely dry it and that alone may make it burn more like the diesel oil.
I think I will add some air bleed holes and more staggered wings further up the air tube to break up the boundary layer gasses and impart more heat to the sides of the burner tube for more efficiency.
I seem to be getting more flame out of less oil atm. I have turned the fuel down but the thing is still producing a good fire and was emitting flame out the top, just, at the old setting. This tells me that the secondary combustion isn't now what it should be ( although burning perfectly clean) hence the idea to add more air holes and the wings which I hope to create a back pressure with lower down and contain the flame front a bit more.
I'm sure I can fine tune this a lot as I go but it's ready to be put into service now as is. Just have to do the back half with the plumbing and heat extraction now.
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852
Posted: 11:41am 02 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Sounds like you have the knack for these oil burners Dave, pleased to hear of your progress. Even better that you can carry on and build the rest of the system and get that working ... and fine tune the burner as you go on from there. Please keep us posted.Cheers, Roger
Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648
Posted: 02:49am 03 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Roger, how is your hot air heater performing? Mine works very well
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852
Posted: 01:35pm 03 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Hi Klaus, yes my original device is going well thanks, although it is back to manual operation. Seems the temp sensor (from the differential controller) that sits inside one of the glass tubes, didn't survive the summer ... and so the controller doesn't work.
So I have to manually switch it on once the sun is up ... and if it gets a bit overcast or when the sun starts to get a bit low ... someone has to turn it off or it starts blowing cold air into the lounge.
Probably a job I should tackle over the weekend ... find a thermistor that is close enough to the original and feed that inside the tubes.
I slept in a couple weekends ago and got out there about 10am, and the sun was shining well. Turned it on, along with my temp meter that measures the air coming into the lounge ... and it went straight up to 95°.
After breakfast and a coffee about an hour later it was around 50° ... so it can certainly add some heat.
I am embarrassed to say that I haven't completed my full scale unit ... and seeing I've committed to finishing my Warpverter, it may not be finished for a while ... but we're still getting great value from the prototype.Cheers, Roger
Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648
Posted: 03:10pm 03 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Thanks, it seems you are working a bit like me in retirement. One job on the go, one or two on the back burner and some future ones in the head...
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852
Posted: 04:52am 04 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Pretty much, except I'm still working and trying to fit these foreignies between jobs ... and I'm not very disciplined ... so it's all a very slow process. So easy to get sidetracked at work and suddenly find the morning gone or worse.
One of the advantages (or disadvantages) of being self employed from home. Great life and I enjoy it, but no where near as productive as I used to be.Cheers, Roger
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:19am 04 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Well I have built quite a few now. Pretty much range from the 1 Kw to 1.2 MW range. Most have been around 2-600 Kw output but they are easier than the small ones. Much less critical on air fuel ratio and more heat to keep the vaporisation hot.
I believe I am in the home stretch now and baring anything unforeseen, I believe this time tomorrow night the place will be heated with waste oil. I intended that yesterday but despite having about 150 various plumbing fittings, of course I never have the ones I need for a particular Job. I buy the things all the time in relation to my oil proclivities but I don't know where the hell they go? It's not like I'm selling things I make from them but no matter what I buy, always got to go get more. So many time I have bought the wrong sizes and a heap of them and thought " I'll have them till I die" and then weeks later, I'm going back for more cause I ran out. Does my head in but anyway.
I got a metal 44 and somehow managed one of my neatest plasma cutting jobs ever and cut a square in the top to drop the burner it.... which I forgot I actually made from a short piece of Pipe I had and is shorter than the drum but a couple of bricks under it which won't hurt and it was nicely just above the drum. I will cut another plate and drop that tight over the burner to secure it and then won't need the towbar for Counter weight.
I was going to start on insulating the drum and thought no, I'll run the thing first, see what I missed and then to that. The grand idea was to do this in an IBC so I could heat that and have plenty of reserve capacity. I can run this to boiling and taking the water down to about 30 for reasons you found last year Roger of anything below feeling cold in blown air, I still should get around 15 KWh or so which might be OK given I'm now thinking more or less constant run time.
Back to the irrigation supplies this morning which turned into lets drop into the shopping centre for a Coffee and we got home at after 4 with a load of stuff we never went for.
Anyway, got what I needed to finish off including some little short clear pieces of Vinyl hose to slip over the 5/8 Fittings on the heater core to make the 3/4 Hose I'm going to use a much tighter fit.
I was procrastinating what hose to use and looked on market place and in a great stroke of luck, someone not too far was giving away 20M of the reinforced hose with fire fittings on it. Contacted them, happy to give it away, didn't want anything for it, will leave it at the front gate. The direct way was blocked by a land slide so we took the definite scenic route. Not far from us but the terrain and landscape! Oh my! was worth the trip just to see whats in our own backyard we never knew of.
Came in this evening and was procrastinating if the blower and heater core I have will do enough output. Spent some time looking on the net for heater units that would look neat and I could just hook up the water and power to and be ready to go. Was aiming for about 35K BTU or 10 KW and found a 30K BTU and a 40K but the price was very steep and of course have to be brought from the US. The unit price I might even wear but the shipping is Effing ridiculous as is anything from America for whatever reason.
I then looked up motorcycle radiators and was doing the mental arithmetic of what the engines on those put out and aimed high and found some suitable I could build into a box and would certainly dissipate the sort of energy I need.
I kept thinking back to all the times I have had a heater going flat out in a car and the heat they put out and thought they must be getting close and I want to get this thing running so I then went back up and got the core and the blower fan I have and Siliconed the 2 together so they will be ready to fit up tomorrow.
I decided to plumb in the pump just before the heater so it will be out the weather as I'm going to sit the burner out away from the veranda and then run the wires and pipes out to it so everything is under cover although I will build a cover to keep the water out. Exception might be the fuel Pump.
The other night when test running I changed from engine oil to veg and listening to the thing in the office here< I could tell it was running lean. Went out and the veg being much thicker than the WMO and not processed at all was very thick and the little pulse pump was having trouble with it. Thinking I may bundle the fuel how with the water hose's so there is some heating of the oil and locate the pump that side so it's warm and thinner and easier to pump.
I added some more Tabs on the air tube further up spaced apart and cocked them at angles to try to induce more swirl to brake up that boundary layer. I think this will give some compression lower down in the burn area with the expanding heated gas and just make the thing a bit more efficient as well. I also enlarged the secondary air holes below so that should help too.
The burner ran like a demon straight off but took a little more heat retention than I anticipated when I submerged it. I haven't seen anyone on YT or the net do this yet so another first.
So the plan is tomorrow to plumb it up Bring it down where I want it and set it up and see how she goes. The only way I'll be able to measure efficiency is to see the inlet and outlet temps from the heater hoses and see how the temp in the tank drops and what fueling rate I'm giving it to sustain temps.
I'll see if I need to go to a bigger radiator or blower. According to my dodgy maths, to raise the temp of 10L of water in one min from 30 to 100oC would take about 50 KW.
That seems like an achievable flow rate through the hose and the core although the temp of the outside air being pulled through will be much less but I'm still playing with 5X the energy I was aiming to put in the house so I think it should be achievable.
I am anticipating running the burner up around 30 KWH initially and the fan flat out and then I will see what I need to do to sustain the heat though the house. I am estimating between 5-10 Kwh.
Done about all the educated guessing I can now, just have to run it and see.
If I fall short, I still have an ace up my sleeve. I have a 100 Kwh spa heater up the back and I have finished the burner for that which was supposed to do a max of 30 Kw but I think will easy run to 120 and I have a car radiator up the back I modified some years back so if need be, I can make the paint peel off the walls if this one falls short.
I don't -think- it will but once, many years ago as a small boy, I was wrong once so you never know! :0)
All I can say is I have really tried to work things out the best I can using the numbers I can find. There are certainly a lot of unknowns but I have based things on the numbers I can find and to be realistic as possible. :0)
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:42am 04 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
That is great!
I often wonder how you have been going with your setup Roger. I'm quite keen to see what it does because the things you posted last year about these tubes were a real eye opener.
I am running an off grid FB page atm ( yeah I know, somewhat embarrassed to even admit that in this company of smart people rather than the endless morons there) and I often refer to what I read of your achievements when people ask about the tubes.
The way the weather has been here, I'm more convinced than ever that combustion is the way to go for me. I know the tubes are so much more efficient but looking how much my PV is down, even if the tubes were 10X more efficient I'd still be short. I have used as much grid power in the last 2 Months as I used in 6 Months last year. OK, haven't got the little Diesel heater running this year but..... Last year was beautiful through Autumn and this far into winter but this year.... Nothing but rain and dreary.
I have been thinking that your big setup should put out plenty of energy for good home heating. If someone set up the same thing with the tubes doing water instead of air, should be viable to store good heat as well.
I know it's hard to concentrate on these things and sometimes one just has to say fukit and just accept it will be done when it's done because no use beating oneself up over things for whatever reason.
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852
Posted: 03:49pm 04 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Sounds very exciting Dave, getting closer now ... and I know what you mean about the tubes ... while they can put out awesome heat in the right conditions ... they're like solar panels ... if there's no sun, there's no heat and there's nothing you can do about it.
At least with this system you can just pour in more oil or pour it in for longer.
You mentioned you've done enough educated guessing and it's time to just run it and see. I do far too much of that and not enough experimenting. So often my first actual experiment shows me that my thinking was way off and I've got to start all over again.
I guess you could call me a dreamer ...
I've been a bit frustrated by my lack of effort on the heater, though the prototype is still going strong ... but at least I am making headway with the Warpverter ... so it's not a total flop.
Good luck with your next steps and I'm keen to hear how it all goes. Certainly sounds very promising.Cheers, Roger
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 09:14am 05 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Well I was EXTREMELY frustrated today with the thing. Wanted to be the day I started heating with it but got unexpectedly undermined.
To keep it short for once, I underestimated how stiff the 3/4 Hoses are I have to take the water from the tank to the heater core. Also, what I thought was my diligence and effort last night going back out in the cold to silicone the heater core to the blower, was more than a waste of time. For whatever reason the silicone didn't go off so the core fell straight off the blower housing and I had silicone going everywhere.
Thought I'd wire it on and spent like an hour looking for my tie wire and couldn't find that, eventually found some other crap and sort of attached it with that but the hoses are so heave and stiff, I couldn't sit the thing where I wanted it like I naively thought.
I'm going to have to build a whole housing for this and pretty much plumb it like Copper, made to fit . Course I didn't have any joiner elbows to do it and a work around with the ducting using the 90mm PVC on the blower didn't work cause I couldn't find the box of connectors and elbows I know I have for them Either.
I really underestimated and dropped the ball on this part.
I was going to fire the thing up and just run it to see how much heat I could get out but by that time I was too tired physically and disappointing mentally and it was getting cold so I left it.
My ideas and ability to work things out are far better than actually constructing and practically allying things.... as usual. be another trip to Bunnys or the irrigation stuff for MORE damn fittings.
I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to do it in PVC because then at least I could make it so it sat in place where I wanted it and I wouldn't be fighting the weight and resistance of the hose. Wouldn't need to spend $50 in hose clamps and be stuffing with them either.
Anyway, let myself down with the simple plumbing that I should have given much more forethought to. Maybe spent too much time running wires and not thought enough about running pipes.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:55am 06 Jun 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
IT"S ALIVE!!!
After yesterdays Disappointment I managed to get out today and get the bits I needed both for a rough test and to make something more permanent.
The upshot is it's certainly going to be viable. The back room is toast warm right now and in a few hours running I already know what I want to change.
The pump is good and flows plenty of water. The burner is keeping up although maybe obviously, needs bit of a head start to get up to heat.
The weak point appears to be the heater core and maybe the blower. I don't feel like I'm getting enough temp drop in and out of the core but the whole core was not getting air pulled through it so that may be a part of the problem.
I started with the 12V blower for a car but that pulls fairly big amps and while warming up the water tank, realised that every decent 12V power supply I have has crapped out. As I was worried about the battery dieing, I placed my 240V tube han on top of the core to blow through the core and through the blower fan and got nearly the same output.
I'll modify that setup tomorrow and put the core in front of this blower and draw through it and I think I should get an even better result. I'll need to make up some sort of flange to adapt the square core to the round fan but I may be able to get away with just manipulating some flexible Duct I have.
In the end I used the hard stiff hoses to hold the core in place and used a little square framework I built years ago and has been so handy for all sorts on mucking around and taped the hoses to the legs to hot everything in place. I'll Undo all that tomorrow! :0)
As I knew, once warmed up, the hose is soft and flexible and easy to manipulate. Maybe should have fired the burner and sank it in to work it in the first place.
I'm still not sure about the heater core. It may be that I need to go to a motorcycle radiator but I am suspect on the core density and if it will deliver hot enough air. Seems the radiator core is thick so the air temps stays up, the bike core may not do that but OTOH, may just be a case of slowing the fan speed down and there should be loads of leeway.
It's all rougher than guts atm but it IS working and getting it running was the first criteria and I have learned from that already. I think convert everything to 240 and probably run a 12V power supply for the burner blower and the timer/ fuel pump. The main blower will be better off mains and I can always use an inverter in the event of a power outage although I'd have a genny for that anyway.
The heat output is good but I do want it better and the tube fan I think will improve on that. How Much remains to be seen.
In writing this I had a rush of blood to the head. Went out and put on the tube fan and the blower. Oh My! That did the trick! A HUGE amount of hot air that never backed off. Seems like my problem is air flow though the core. The tube fan un restricted may cure that and going from a 90MM pipe to a 250 Won't hurt with the reduction in back pressure either.
The extra wings on the air tube I attached seem to be working as well. Even with the uninsulated drum and the blower pulling a 25o temp reduction out out of the water, the drum is at vigorous rolling boil now at lower fueling settings than before.
The place is definitely warmer. I have a spot on the wall I shoot temps for consistency. I try to aim to keep the place at 19. It's 22 Atm and I had the AC on fan to distribute the heat. My office here which I normally try to keep to 19 with a ban heater on a PWM controller outputting about 700 W is also sitting at 22 and no heater has been on all night. Happy with that as I know I'm not near full heat output and there is so much more I can do.
I'll do some mods and see what sort of output I can get tomorrow. :0)
ryanm Senior Member Joined: 25/09/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 202
Posted: 06:20am 03 Jul 2022
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
How did you go getting the inside radiator put together Davo? I'm curious to see what you came up with.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
Print this post
?
