 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Other Stuff : Welding advise....
Page 1 of 2   |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Hello all.  So, I have got myself a stick welder(inverter type), and went looking for some electrodes. I did not know there were quite so many.  As I am only a beginner, and I plan to teach myself to weld with this welder, I need some electrodes that are easy to weld with for the newbie.  I have heard good things about the Ferro 160's, as they supposedly strike easily, and don't stick like some of the others might for beginners. What I need, is confirmation of this, or links to other types of electrodes FOR BEGINNERS. I don't want an electrode which might technically be superior, I want ones that are easy to learn with. Once I have learnt how to actually weld using easy electrodes, I can always progress on to the more professional ones if you see what I mean. I first tried to learn welding at my father's workshop, using ancient old three-phase transformer industrial welders, and it was a horrible experience. The arc was vicious, and resulted in all my electrodes just sticking to the work-piece. People have told me inverter-welders are much easier to learn on, then the three-phase transformer welders from the 40's. I have looked at many YouTube videos on stick welding for beginners, and have picked up some great tips, mostly from ChuckE2009. His videos seem very good, from a beginner's perspective. OK all you welders!!!!! Let's have your comments!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
Revlac Guru  Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
A good quality welding rod is a good start, and those are good quality. I have never tried the new inverter welders yet, I still use the old tractorpack and another larger 400Amp stick welder, I can throw any size and type of rod at this one and it will just eat it, never had any issue with sticking rods, just the ark did not want to let go. Most of the welding here is with 3.2mm rods almost everything can be welded with that size with technique and practice, the rest of the time I have used 6mm Iron Powder rods for rebuilding railway wheels and excavator repairs. I did have a load of cheep made in china 3.2mm rods, I can weld with them but if someone els tried with them they would probably give up and never touch a welder again.  You might want to start off with some small rods 3.2mm or less that would be best to practice with. There are different types of welding electrodes for different types of welding like hard facing and cast, best to start with Mild Steel. IMO butt welding is the best to start practicing with, play with the electrode angle and the temp control a bit until your happy with the way it looks then you can move on to fillet welding, can be tricky as the flux will pool there causing holes in the weld and can be a bugger to remove the flux with a chipping hammer. I spent years welding aluminum boats using Tig and Mig, Thats a whole different thing. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
||||
| greybeard Senior Member  Joined: 04/01/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
I learnt to stick weld with an ac welder. I then purchased an inverter stick welder and it is much easier to strike and hold an arc with. especially at lower current. The other few tips are, get an auto dark helmet (you can see what you are doing as you start the arc as they then auto dim), make sure your metal is clean (I use an angle grinder, also handy to get rid of your crappy welds ). Practice on thicker steel, something like 3mm + in thickness to reduce the number of holes you blow in the metal.I also added a 240v fan to my first AC welder to improve the cooling and avoid the constant cooling delays to let the over heat shutoff reset in a low duty cycle cheapy welder. Another other 'trick' early on is to cut the welding rod in half. I found it much easier to strike and hold an ARC with a half used (or length) rod. Do your welding on a flat horizontal surface out of the wind. Practice, practice then google whatever is wrong with your weld and fix that problem. Either go to a welding/farm machinery store and ask them about general purpose welding rods or just go to bunnings, they have bugger all specialist wleding rods but do carry general purpose rods. Good luck. |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
@ Revlac - Yes, the welder came with some cheap Chinese electrodes, but remembering the issues I had with the 3-phase transformer welder years ago, I thought that some good quality electrodes would save much of my sanity with this next attempt. @ greybeard - That's encouraging(easier to strike with inverter welder). I do have an auto-darkening helmet, gloves, overalls etc. I plan to start by just welding some lines on steel. The object is to correctly regulate my hand position to obtain some clean and consistent lines. This, I think, needs to be mastered before I try to actually weld metal together. So, I will get those electrodes then, if members think they are OK to start with, and I will bin the cheap Chinese ones that came with the welder. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Anybody used that spray to stop welding splatter to stick? Removing these splatter beads on a complicated frame with a small chisel is a pain. I also do not remove that blue paint from RHS material before welding, is it better to remove it? Been told not to worry about that and it seems to weld through OK. Klaus |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
My dad was a welder all his life, and I used to help him in the shop, just wire-brushing I beams and other steel, cutting steel to length etc. I remember that blue paint on the RHS(Rectangular Hollow Section if I remember correctly), and dad used to just weld right through it. I was never asked to grind or brush that off, nor do I remember him ever cleaning that off first. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| greybeard Senior Member Joined: 04/01/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 161 |
I can weld through the blue paint on the RHS ok. My problem came when I was slack and using 2nd hand steel that was 'dirty' ie dirt, heavy rust, possible oil/grease on it. I could weld it but had noticeable issues with pools of sl*g inbetween the weld. As soon as I ran the angle grinder over the joints before I welded it the problem went away. Some surface rust doesn't seem to be a problem. I also recommend some sort of clamping ov all of the components to be welded together. Do it pretty well as a trying to unstick a welding rod could move things around until they are welded together. |
||||
TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
The amount of time I had being taught welding is probably less than the time it took me to write this... The inverter welders are much friendlier than the old style, at lest for hobby level welding. I also agree that the auto darkening shields are great. I find welding in strong natural light helps a lot. When you weld one side of a joint, the heating will cause the work to bend. It takes a lot of good clamping and tack welding both/all sides before doing a long run. It's a bugger trying to undo the bends afterwards. Clean steel and beveled joints before starting makes a big difference to the experience and final success, but I will admit to turning the wick up and burning through galvanized surfaces at times. I don't think you have said what thickness steel you are attacking. I used to be OK at the thin stuff but, just like surface mount, I have lost the touch. 1.5mm rods can be pesky sods to use. I would much rather be hard facing the excavator buckets. Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
For my initial practise, I plan to just run lines. I will be using 3mm thick plate and old RHS/SHS off-cuts. I hope not to blow holes through this thickness, but if I can find scraps of thicker to practise with, I will use them. Will probably use the 3.2mm rods, unless members think the 2.5mm rods would be better to learn with. I do plan to cut some rods in half cos I think that might be easier to initially learn with, then I can hop up to full-length. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
The auto darkening shields are excellent and highly recommended. Without one you are welding pretty much totally blind. Look at the weld, not at the arc. Get yourself some decent protective gear. A blob of molten steel falling in your sock, or setting your shirt on fire can be pretty funny to any spectator. But it also hurts... The UV from a welding arc can cause sunburn very quickly. And that can be pretty painful too. Its all jolly good fun, and a very valuable skill. Cheers, Tony. |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Yes, I do lots of things, but even though my daddy was a professional welder all his life, I never learnt. Dad was not the best teacher, and those old transformer welders were nasty to learn with if you ask me. I do quite a lot with cars at the weekends, so it would be nice if I knew how to MIG a patch in to replace some rust, instead of paying someone else to do it. I know you can't use a stick welder for automotive panels, as they are too thin for stick welding, and I would just blow holes in the panel-work. I know that MIG and TIG are the ones to go for here, but I thought I should learn on a stick first. Some videos on YouTube said this. MIG is easy to learn, so they say, but most videos encouraged the viewing newbie to learn stick first, as that can be used just about anywhere, then you can move up to the MIG and TIG(if a TIG is available). Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Stick is great to get started with. The equipment is simple and low cost, and it will do quite a lot of things quite well. Gas-less MIG is the next step up, but setting up the welder with voltage, and wire speed takes a bit more trouble and requires a slightly higher skill level. If you are serious, a TAFE class is highly recommended and not that expensive. Cheers, Tony. |
||||
| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
One thing that has not been mentioned yet is identifying the hot metal puddle and try to ignore the flux puddle that floats on top of the weld and often gets in the way in the direction of travel. Its often difficult to see the hot metal puddle with small welding rods, and when welding flat and straight its often not an issue, But when you move on to fillet welds or difficult angles, you can actually see the holes forming and the flux filling the holes instead, which will leave you with more holes in the weld and yuk. When you see the holes forming, if your fast enough push the rod/ark into it a bit that should push the flux back out of the hole. Oh and keep the ark and rod close as possible to the work, I remember seeing a kid at school strike an Ark then lift it about an inch away trying to weld, just makes a light show.  Good luck with it. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
||||
| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
|
||||
| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Have a mate that is a bit of a joker, did a TAFE welding course and smuggled a few sparklers into the class. When he struck an arc, the sparkler lit up and kept on burning, and the instructor could hardly believe what he was seeing. Then he just cracked up laughing.  Cheers, Tony. |
||||
| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
Yep the old PILOT ARC "EMF" WELDER 200 AMP.(2 phase I believe) Pie warmer, or burner if you left it to long. Used one for years building aluminum boats, been zapped by the damn thing that many times, i don't want to see another of them. I once held a 20watt bulb in my fingers, touch the end of it to the side of the boat a it lit up bright. A bloke walked in and told me that type of welder was banned? @ Warpspeed I remember a few kids at school, standing near the welding bench, each with a welding electrode trying to light them with a lighter. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
||||
Chopperp Guru Joined: 03/01/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1057 |
Hey Groggs, How's the welding practice going? There's far more to welding than I realised. ChopperP |
||||
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
When my trusty Lincoln 140 amp inverter welder that I bought in '03 when out in fashion throwing 1 metre blue arc's in front of me and it also took out my 5Kva genset. The first input cap blew it's lid and melted the top of the case too. Now for a replacement I bought a Lincoln 130 amp and the first time I used it to weld a frame up to hold some portable toilets I found using TC16 2.5mm rods with the welder on 80 amps I was blowing holes thru 5mm steel. So turned the amps down to 40 amps and it welded nice with good penetration. When tig welding my old 140 amp was like 100 amps to tig weld copper and with the 130 amp it's like 10 amps max and for thinner copper the amp setting is just off zero. At just over $300 for the 130 amp welder I do reckon it's best bang for buck arc welder on the market. |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
@ ChopperP - Far more to it then I thought too. I currently suck. So much so, that I am not prepared to post any photos.  I am just working on lines for now. Once I can do some lines OK, I will work on actually welding two bits together.I hope to try again this weekend. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Here is my first attempt at lines. All I am trying to do here, is just weld acceptable lines. I am not actually trying to weld things together at this point. Once I have welded some lines, I will grind these off with the angle grinder and do more. I currently suck, so please don't be too harsh with your comments!  The bottom line in this image was my 1st attempt, the line on the top was my 2nd attempt. I need lots of practise, but you have to start somewhere! I am still having problems with the electrode sticking to the work-piece. Once I strike the arc, so long as I don't stretch the arc out so it stops, I can do the lines. I am using 2.5mm electrodes. Packet says 70-100 amps. At 70 amps, they were sticking badly - probably too cold. At 80 they stuck less, and at 90 amps they seemed easiest to strike and run with. I find that once they stick, to get them off the work-piece, you have to be violent with them, and that knocks some of the flux off the end of the electrode, and then makes them really hard to strike on the next attempt. If I get ones that stick tomorrow, I will use some big wire-cutters to cut the electrode back so that we have a full surround of flux, which probably would aid in striking the arc, yes? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
||||
| Page 1 of 2 |
|||||
 Print this page |
