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Forum Index : Other Stuff : trailer lights
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
This might be of interest to trailer buyers/owners/borrowers out there. I just bought a new box trailer with the late model LED lights . It does NOT work with my VW . Or for a lot of cars ,I'm told . The catch is, I'm told ,is they draw very little current and therefore the car,s computer system thinks there is a fault . The catch is , you have to buy and install a special sensor that tells the computer LED lights are in the system and it then boost,s the current to make the lights look like ordinary lights ,and they work . The pain is this part is very expensive, google shows them from $100 to ,yes, $1000.00. I nearly had a heart attack!. Do any of you much smarter people know of this sorry story and a cheaper solution . Bruce Bushboy |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
The trailer lights will be in ADDITION to the normal lights fitted to the car. If the car works with no trailer, why does it complain about having insufficient load once you plug the trailer in ? Something is not quite right about this ?? Cheers, Tony. |
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disco4now Guru Joined: 18/12/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 896 |
A 15 ohm resistor in parallel with the indicator bulbs is the fix for Land Rovers with this problem. There is two variations to the problem. 1. The car pulses the bulbs to see the circuit is OK, on normal bulbs its not enough to see , but will flicker a LED light. This does not occur on later models. Fix here is to add relays but not need on later models. 2. The indicator LED does not draw enough current to be detected by the trailer indicator circuit (separate feed to normal indicators). The fix here is simply to add a 15 ohm resistor in parallel with the LED indicators on the trailer. You can get them in a metal enclosure at auto shops. Navara brand I think. A normal bulb in parallel for a quick test if you don't have a resistor. regards Gerry Latest F4 Latest H7 |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Ah ! I was unaware that modern vehicles have an independent trailer light system. That makes it all very clear. Cheers, Tony. |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Yes, I am inclined to agree with Tony on this one. I just had to fix my trailer lights for a warrant on the trailer yesterday, so this is fresh in my mind. Even if the car lights were LED too, they would still suck some kind of current, and so the car computer should not care one jot about perhaps a few hundred more mA for LED trailer lights. It might be that the computer is concerned with the EXTRA current load of the trailer, rather then the no-load current if you catch my drift. If the car lights are all LED, then the computer will know with reasonable accuracy, how much current they SHOULD be sucking, and if it senses that they are sucking MORE then that by a few hundred mA, it might then decide that this is a fault-current, and shut them all off. If your car uses bulb lighting, then the computer should not really care at all about the trailer, as bulb lights suck amps of current, not just mA, so a few hundred more for LED trailer lights should be irrelevant. Odd......  EDIT: @ disco4now - Yes, I was unaware of that too! Nice info. My post is not really relevant now, but I will leave it there. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
So far the resistor seems the easiest fix -one for left/right indicator cable,one for stop, one for running / number plate light. these could be installed in a small box inside the cavity in the side of the interior boot ?? or scrap the led trailer lights and replace with old bulbs type -- . LED set up --- none of my mates would be able to borrow the trailer = less beer ? Bruce Bushboy |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Less beer is never a good thing........  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Spending a hour trying to get the trailer lights working again every time I want to shift some "stuff" is never that good either. The new LED trailer lights are pure magic, and with an older vehicle no problem. Cheers, Tony. |
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| disco4now Guru Joined: 18/12/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 896 |
On the Land Rover you actually only need to do one indicator to let the car know its there, but mostly people do both,the brake and tail lights don't need to be done. On the Land Rover the lights/indicators actually work but the car doesn't know the trailers there, so reverse sensors don't shut off when you hit reverse, little trailer indicator on dash does not flash and some smarts around towing and gear changes aren't triggered. The reversing sensors are the main thing that annoys. Gerry Latest F4 Latest H7 |
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| M Del Senior Member  Joined: 09/04/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 155 |
The biggest issue with this problem is all the manufacturers know of this problem. It is why a factory tow kit is so much more expensive than an aftermarket one for newish vehicles, came accross this in 2009 with a Mercedes truck. Alas we had to go with the manufacturers big dollar fix. Second big issue is all aftermarket manufacturers/suppliers/fitters/sellers know of the problem but no one tells the customer. Same with trailer dealers etc. The reason is only some vehicles/trailers will have the fault as most trailers still have incandesant bulbs and most test rigs are based on incandesant bulbs. We now have about 50 small vehicles at work fitted with the expensive manufacturers electronic box. The new trucks we are getting are all LED and there are already problems at the school with them as any moisture/corrosion or bad connector can shut the lights down. Multiply this by 300 bases accross OZ. For some reason I am looking forward to retirement and getting out of transport altogether. Mark |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6098 |
It is a common issue with all European vehicles. I found the problem with my Iveco truck. Towing the van (with incandescent lamps) was OK but it got annoyed with the box trailer. "Computer says NO" They are also requiring weird things with trailer brakes which will make head banging a regular activity. Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
AHhhhh Huhhhhhh,, they (mechanics) found my little magic box behind the carpet in the boot area(where I told them yesterday) lol,ya goto laugh, these turkeys charge us $80 per hr and never listen ... Anyhow , they said it,s working/not working ,so they have to source another replacement-probably $250-350 betcha... how in the hell can ordinary people justify changing over to this new gear if thats a typical solution -mega bucks for some fancy led light ,can,t beleive it? Bruce Bushboy |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Low current LED trailer lights can have an altogether different problem. That is poor trailer plug contact. My car, new Isuzu Dmax, came with a factory trailer plug. Initially my boat trailer had incandescent lights but I changed them to LED as the filament bulb fittings were on the way out. Anyway, the LED lights worked fine but now I need to wire brush the plug contacts (rectangular plug) each time due poor contact of the outer pins which are the indicators. The tiny current has trouble to jump the slight contact tarnishing. The plug, lights & wiring *never* get dunked BTW. Did you know they have now special magnetic switches in the trailer socket lid? Why? When the lid is open, as in a trailer plugged in, this switch disables the reversing proximity sensors which otherwise would beep madly due the presence of a trailer behind the car  Klaus |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Solve all these problems: go back to an older vehicle WITHOUT a computer - then the vehicle does not care what you connect to it's rear end. Not a practical solution, I know, but....  Computerizing vehicles is not necessarily a good thing, IMHO. Ever since there have been computers in cars, people have been having issues with them, and BIG costs associated with fixing whatever the computer thinks is wrong. On an older car with fuses, relays and indicator blinkers, any fault you can diagnose and fix yourself. This often costs you nothing, if you have the replacement bits in the shed.... That's been my experience anyway, but then, I am a British car fan, and have Mini's, Austin/Morris 1100/1300's and Vauxhall's from the 60's and 70's - no computers in those!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I was reading an article recently about the American wheat farmers that buy those enormously powerful, and extremely expensive articulated farm tractors. They are now just a mass of hydraulics and computer control with sensors everywhere. If some silly little plug or widget fails, everything can stop dead and without the very specialized diagnostic hardware that only the tractor dealer has, its impossible to diagnose the problem. The huge machine must be trailered to the dealer, which can then result in a very long down time, and a very expensive bill to replace some mysterious small part. The farmers are becoming increasingly unhappy.... Cheers, Tony. |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
  Same thing on a smaller scale with people whose cars have an issue like that. $100 to plug in the diagnostic thing, then about $50 per minute on the thing, plus whatever they then have to do to fix the problem. Daylight robbery, yet old points-and-coil ignition and bulbs for lighting on the older vehicles does not seem to be any less reliable IMHO. If having a computer on-board means that you have to fork out hundreds at the garage if/when something goes wrong, I would rather stick with the older wiring. Trouble is that pretty much any vehicle from 1990 onwards till now have computers, so you CAN'T avoid it with a modern vehicle. I'm surprised that insurance companies are not offering 'Car Computer Insurance'.... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Ahhhh Canbus how I love theee.....NOT!!!! All new cars are pretty much 100% canbus these days And nearly all dealers say the same thing- get rid of your led lights and fit bulbs... WHAAA????? Seriously??? Some caravan manufacturers even recommend bulbs instead of LEDS...from the factory No thanks, I went led a long time ago and would never go back to bulbs on my trailers, I'd sell the car first... I recently had to do a new VW that had a caravan with all led lights, we looked at just fitting the resisters to te vans (which was done in the end anyway due to the abovementioned plug tarnishing issue) but also ended up fitting a set to the socket on the car as well, due to it using hire trailers- which obviously dont have the resisters fitted You really do need them on all circuits, not just the blinkers anymore (earlier non canbuses didnt need them on tails or brakes, just indicators) but the newer ones use the trailer tailights for suspension levelling and brakelights for the electric brake controller Another issue is that if you dont have them on all circuits, including the reverse lights!!!), you get a flickering on all lights, or on some cars a 'slow roll' as each light circuit lights up in turn. Obviously this isnt good, as the person behind you wonders what you are doing as each light comes and goes in a disco pattern... (fascinating to watch a car doing nothing with its lights, and the van behind doing tail lights on then off, left indicator, right indicator, brakes, reverse and just continue to do it loop after loop- much more interesting than the ones that obviously have a faster buss speed- all they do is all lights are on continuously but flickering....) Ahhh progress, breaking things that didnt need breaking, and the fix is always a lot more expensive than just doing it the old way plus a BIG shoutout about the newer canbus systems- they have load limits ie so many watts of power per circuit- exceed it and the $$$ smoke comes out of the cars computer, if you have an old trailer with dodgy wiring (ie about 99.999999999% of the box trailers out there, any short will let the $$$ smoke out of the car computer...) Basically, dont use a trailer on new cars at all... :-( |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Another thing to watch out for on Euro cars (I've seen it on 2 VW's, a Merc and a Range Rover) is the euro socket is a 10 pin circular socket, we obviously use mostly 7pin flat or 14 pin flat for bigger vans etc All of them had dealer fitted towbars, and they were complaining the reversing sensors werent working properly The issue? The dealer fitted towbars (this was from several different dealers so it's probably widespread) they had a short 'adapter' fitted to the towbar with the 7 flat socket screwed to the towbar, and the round plug into the 10 socket up under the back of the car.... Um... remember those sockets with the inbuilt switch mentioned upthread that turns off the two middle sensors for the reversing sensors....... The factory 10pin socket has those... and its permanently plugged into the towbar adapter... so.... the reverse sensors think there is a trailer permanently attached to the car and dont work anymore DOH |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
...a vehicle electrical system is not supposed to be this complicated..... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308 |
I think we all look at it as oversights by manufacturers and going backwards in design. I'll bet the manufacturers look at it as a great way to add to dealer and part sales Revenue. Wouldn't be hard to fix at a manufacturing level and they have had plenty of time to do so. The reason they don't.... same as always, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. |
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