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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Ram Pump Hydraulic Ram
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casterton Newbie  Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
Hi, I'm looking at building a ram pump and I'm after some guidance please. On my land I have a small water race that is about 300 meters longs with a rough fall of about 3 meters (1 in 100 meters). There is minimal options to dam is as there is not much bank. There is about 20 liters/second flow. A main question I have, the ram pump has a drive pipe, and additional to this you can add a feed pipe. Does the intake on the feed pipe (being further upstream) add to the head on the pump, or is the head only calculated based on the drive pipe? 
My main goal is to lift water about 3-4 meters high to a tank to make gravity flow for domestic garden irrigation. I appreciate any guidance that can be offered. Scott. Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Scott I'm a big fan of ram pumps, and built a few small ones. The feed pipe from upstream goes to a standing pipe, basically a open topped upright pipe. The water level in this standing pipe is the same as the water level at the inlet of the feed pipe, and this is your head. The rams drive pipe also connects to the bottom of the standing pipe. Basically, the stand pipe becomes the water supply to your rams drive pipe. The feed pipe should be big enough to keep the water level in the standing pipe as high as possible, as the water drains away into the drive pipe and ram. My little ram has a head of about 1.5 meters, but lifts water over 10 meters high. You will have no problem lifting water 3 meters. But, have you considered a water wheel? You have a nice water channel, lots of flow, so a water wheel driving a piston pump or spiral pump would also work well. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
Thanks Glenn. Appreciate the understanding there. A further question then to clarify my understanding. If my drive pipe is say, 30mtr long, and then I have a supply pipe of 200 mtrs (giving me potentially another 2 mtr of head), then my stand pipe would need to be 2-2.5 mtr tall and would mean that I have approx 2 mtr head for the pump? I had a couple of years ago a Wirtz (Spiral) pump, but it was made from free scrap - wooden end from a cable drum, down pipe split long-wise to make paddles, and left overs of pipe. I used garden hose fittings for a swivel joint which kept chewing out, and I didn't have bearings. Due to the home-made-poor-engineering points on this project, it worked VERY poorly. But it did work. I do intend to return to this and get it made with better engineering on day. Currently I've been given  1-1/4" swing and check valves, mac unions, and gate valves by a work supplier as a project sponsor donation. So I'm keen to see what I can do.
Will keep posting as I get further along with the project. Scott. Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
In fact you can see the 'left over Wirtz Pump' in the upstream view photo!!! Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Scott The head would be measured from the top of the water level in the stand pipe to the ram itself. So if you have 2 meters of water in your stand pipe, and you ram is a further 1 meter below the bottom of the stand pump, then you have 3 meters of head. 30 meters is a very long drive pipe. Mine is only about 8 meters, and cycles about twice a second. The longer the pipe, the longer it takes for the column of water to get moving, so the slower the ram will cycle. But to short and you dont generate enough inertia to generate a good pressure pulse. Finding the happy mid point means a little trial and error. Also rams love back pressure, wont work without it. Something to keep in mind as you experiment. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
Further questions. I see that there are different layout designs online for ram pumps. Some show the check valve and pressure vessel after/beyond the swing check waste valve: 
Others show the waste valve beyond the check valve: 
Is one option better/more efficient than the other? Thanks Scott. Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Not really, both work just as well. I myself prefer the top version where the check valve is on the same line as the feed pipe, one less corner for the water to turn during the high pressure pulse stage. You'll have fun with this. Building and tuning a ram is a bit like fixing and tuning a old motorbike, you can make little adjustments, learn the different noises they make, and really appreciate a old technology. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
Thanks for your help. I have got most of the necessary components together, and have a couple of (maybe dumb) questions: 1: when putting fittings together and you need the all to sit vertically, how do you do this when some want to tighten beyond vertical, even 'upside down'? 2. The waste swing valve. What orientation should this sit at? In line with the pump or at 90 degrees to it? 
I am still waiting on the mac union for the intake side of the pump. On back order!! Then just build my pressure tank and supply and then the testing (AKA FUN) begins Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
1. Lots of thread tape. Lets you under/over tighten a bit. Or, use silicon, tighten till vertical and let the silicon set. 2. Doesn't matter, it will work either way, but you can play around with it later to get the best results. Those cast iron unions can be a bugger, they rust and seize in my experience. Use a bit of thread tape in the thread so it doesn't rust together. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
Thanks for the advise on the unions Glenn. I'll look at going to plastic ones. Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| casterton Newbie Joined: 21/10/2015 Location: New ZealandPosts: 10 |
More questions: Can the supply pipe be 'to big'? IE my ram and drive is all 32mm (1-1/4"). I am considering the supply to be a further 200m (650') of alkathene pipe. My thoughts are making it 50mm (2"). Is there any harm in going bigger in my budget allows? How does the size of the supply affect the standpipe dimensions? Thanks. Thanks & Regards, Scott - King Fossic Because I love fossicking!! fos新ick (fŏs′ĭk)/ˈfɒsɪk/ To rummage or search around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
No, supply pipe can be any size, so long as it can keep the standing pipe water level up while the ram is doing its thing. The pump itself is really just the feed pipe and the valves, etc at the end. The standing pipe is the water supply, it could be a upright pipe, dam, tank, etc. The supply pipe just needs to keep it full. If the level in the stand pipe drops, the pressure to the pump drops, and it will slow down. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Greenbelt Guru  Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Hi Scott; I Made up a drawing long time ago and posted on this web site, searching does not find it. Glen has had Storm damage/Power failure when he lived up north and some data was lost. I'M posting it Here as a guide to understanding how the Ram pump works. almost any design will work if the main features are present.Sorry about the blurred Text.I Had to shrink it to Upload. Note; The sniffer port is a small hole to ensure that the receiver maintains an air cushion.  ----------Cheers, Roe
EDIT; An error exists in the drawing text,The 100 pounds of water in the feed pipe will have a value of 250 pounds Foot when averaged from zero height to five foot. or a little less. resulting force, 250 times two ft. second = 500 lb force. this post is for illustration and does not represent an engineered system ----------Cheers,--- Roe. End Edit. 
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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