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Forum Index : Other Stuff : GS Heat Pump

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Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 05:08am 21 May 2011
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To all my Faithful Followers,
A Short Update.
The Refrigerant is ordered and is Scheduled to arrive Monday evening.

I have the thermostat and wiring all connected, The air Ducts and heat registers are
installed and 2 Air return Ducts.

The first Pic. is the prime register for the output 6" X 12"- (15 X 30(( cm.)) and is placed in the living room where the heat stream is directed toward the ceiling Fan This hopefully will distribute the heat to other parts of the House.
My floor plan is very open to the dining and kitchen area.




The Master bedroom and bath Has a small Duct and register 4"-100mm. Duct.
I have a air return Register in the entryway and the other in the bedroom hall ; This will cause a lower pressure on opposite sides of the living room and cause air to flow to this area.
Pic 2 is air return in entry way, Its Painted Green Now.


A more detailed post to follow in a few days,Some lessons learned and what to do different. Cheers----Roe

EDIT;
Some people are coming apart in critical areas.
I need to Change mm. To read CM. above (( ))
Edited by Greenbelt 2011-05-24
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 09:10pm 02 Jun 2011
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Another Update,
The things I ordered have arrived and now I can get on with it.
The Thermo expansion Valve and the Liquid line Filter/Drier were the holdup to get the system charged. Now I can hook up the plumbing and see where the smoke comes out. Cheers----Roe

Edit;
I forgot to picture one little Item, $10. at the auto parts store
Edited by Greenbelt 2011-06-04
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 08:42pm 14 Jun 2011
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HI all,
I'm still Dragging my feet and holding Back.
Murphy has decided to Summer with Me, seems anything I attempt to do of late is nixed to Failure, The Txv I ordered was not the one I wanted, I stupidly Dropped down a line
on the order sheet and clicked BUY. (EBAY)
So I got a 3-5 ton rated valve instead of the 1 1/2 - 3ton, I wanted. There's More,
I contacted the Seller and he agreed to ship the right one so then when the replacement arrived it was a piece of Junk. the Flare fitting was Damaged and is Factory Brazed to the valve body. The delicate nature of this valve will not allow replacement of this fitting. I have contacted the Seller again and included this picture.




Haven't Heard from Him yet.
Next post Hopefully will be more positive.

-----Cheers, Roe
Edited by Greenbelt 2011-06-16
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
mac46

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Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 412
Posted: 01:43am 15 Jun 2011
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Greenbelt,

I am begining to think that there must be more than one "Mr.Murphy",

Got to be...he's been camped out at my house since late last week.

Keep thinking happy thoughts, better times are comeing.

...Mac46
I'm just a farmer
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 05:00am 15 Jun 2011
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Yeah Mac,
Strange Times we're living in. I think everyone feels it. Its Global Depression.

Have a look at my post in Windmills, The Plodding VAWT. If you decide to tackle a axial flux Alt. design sometime later, keep this in mind, coils would not need quite as many turns of wire to get the voltage, Less resistance less Heat energy Loss.

----Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
VK4AYQ
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Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539
Posted: 02:02pm 15 Jun 2011
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Hi Guys

Noticed your mention of Murphy's law here and how it stuffs us up at times, however when things get worse than bad it is time to revert to Gybersons Law. That is the 18 law of physics, and put simply it states that Murphy was an optimist.

Remember that without bad luck we wouldn't recognize good luck when it occasionally rears its head.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
Tinker

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1904
Posted: 02:38pm 15 Jun 2011
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Roe, that ding does not look too bad to me . If this was mine I'd get a biggish steel ball, place it gently on the damaged flared area and tap it with a hammer .
Good as new now I should think
Klaus
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 03:40am 16 Jun 2011
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Tinker,
The damage is deep in the Flare Seat. a swelled place where the Tubing Flare seats, I don't want a leak that over time may loose the oil and destroy the Compressor.
It appears that someone used a hammer to loosen the line nut.

I saw a note on the box it was shipped in, "Assembled in Mexico"
The air conditioning parts are recycled from Junked units. This is supposed to have a new Valve and seat installed and classed as a rebuild.
Companies Ship this stuff to Mexico where pollution laws are not enforced. the refrigerant is probably released to the wild Blue. the Workers here use a Hammer and Hands to dis-assemble and they're not to motivated to do a good Job.

You may ask, why o you support this shady Industry? Well I didn't know the source when I ordered it. but now I'm enlightened !

The Pic below shows the damage a little better but still does not show the bump inside,
Still no reply from the Vendor.
---Cheers, Roe


Edited by Greenbelt 2011-06-17
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 04:10am 30 Jun 2011
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Hi all;
I'm Getting back to work on this project after time off for the Honey Do's.

That expansion valve is not going to be replaced with out legal persuasion so I will put my tail down and weep over the $15 while doing a mod on it to make it work.
I'm no stranger to this procedure , So why not? I sawed off the end of both fittings and drilled and Tapped to 1/8 pipe thread,
The compression fittings are ring and sleeve type, should make a solid join.

The air Duct I installed could not handle the volume of air needed for the condenser. 30 feet of 8 inch diameter seem to be ok, I just didn't like the 6 inch I started with. That's it for Now.-------Cheers Roe


Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 07:53pm 16 Jul 2011
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YEAH, I'm still working on it,

and working on it.!!!
I Started to pull a Vacuum on the system and the Gauge went to approx. 4" of Merc. and stopped.
after screwing around with hose connections looking for a leak I finally give up and stopped everything, That's when I heard it, That gurgling sound made by water in a pipe.

My soldering job was not as good as it looked on the evaporator vapor tube. This solder Joint was very close to the coil loops and I may not have put enough heat here in fear of loosening the factory joints,???
Well, I'm Now draining the water from the compressor and condenser as well as the Evaporator and filter Drier, It Will need a $10 dollar oil change when I get it dried out and the filter drier will be replaced
I have the Evaporator dried and repaired and it's holding 29.2(all I can Get) with this machine.

I have a space heater focused on the compressor and the Vacuum pump is running, I will run this setup for a couple Hours and then do a hold test to see if it is dry.

This Vacuum Lowers the pressure on the water causing it to boil at a lower temperature and with the heater raising the housing Temp. (Guess 130Deg.F)
it will vaporize quickly.

If the system is not dry a Vacuum Hold test will show a vapor pressure building up from the moisture present.

I learned from this to do the Vacuum/Pressure testing before putting the system together. I knew better, I just don't use my endowment.
-----Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539
Posted: 11:38pm 16 Jul 2011
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Hi Roe

More hurry less speed, or as dad used to say, rush in slowly.

Hope the water hasn't done any damage to the compressor, you may need to get a spare dryer to change after a run, as it is amazing where water vapor hides.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
norcold

Guru

Joined: 06/02/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 670
Posted: 11:56pm 16 Jul 2011
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If you have access to a bottle of nitrogen, flush through system a few times before fitting new drier but remove old drier first and oil from compressor. Nitrogen has the ability to absorb water vapour to a certain extent. Run vac-pump in between flushes. Than when content with that add oil and filter-drier, as Bob said have a spare filter drier handy, you may have to do so a few times. But if it holds a good vacum and than you heat up as much as possible with the vac-guage showing no movement whilst adding the heat, you may be on a winner.
Good Luck
We come from the land downunder.
Vic
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 05:13am 17 Jul 2011
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HI BOB
VK4AYO Wrote,
More hurry less speed, or as dad used to say, rush in slowly.

Your Dad was a Thinking Man.
I function on Instinct.(example) I once planned to take off work the following day,
I was at the Time Clock when I remembered? Go Figure!!.
The Compressor Was never run and I got the water and Oil out quickly and I hope the valves have not rusted. this is not likely because it has always contained Oil.

norcold,

Yes The Nitrogen flush is a good Idea, I have already checked with my local Welding
supply store, The smallest nitrogen bottle will cost $12.50 and I'm not to sure this is clean Gas but I'm Going to try It. The Fridge supply price is double That.

-------Cheers Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539
Posted: 10:10am 17 Jul 2011
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Hi Roe

I have used methelated spirits for flushing a water contaminated system in the past, when out in the bush yo uses what yo can get. It worked but had to cook the drier several times, as it was charged with propane gas cost wasn't such an issue.
All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 09:18pm 18 Jul 2011
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Greetings Bob

Methylated spirits here in the states are either diluted or used for Racing Fuel.
The Gasohol is only 15% max. and its been Years since I've seen Alcohol antifreeze, So I will trot along like a good little sheep and pay the price deemed to be fair by the establishment.
A note on the LG Alt,, The Voltage/RPM Ratio for light wind looks to be near perfect for 24 Volts. Your Gyro blades may handle the torque for early start up. I see the current suffers at higher wind speed.----See ? in Windmills.

Should have some more developments in a few Days.

----Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 05:10pm 30 Sep 2011
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Hi everyone,

A little update, not much going on in a hurry. I took some break time from this project because of the setback.(Water in the system) Well I did another stupid thing after cleaning the system, I pulled the vacuum and waited for 12 hours, all was well, no leaks.
I then added the compressor oil and charged the system with 2 cans of refrigerant.
Turned it on and the smoke got out. The Oil did not go in the evaporator as I thought it would, Murphy was there with a road sign pointing to the compressor and that's where it went. The winding blew immediately It was supposed to have burnout protection but that failed.
I have since replaced the compressor with a smaller one, (Used) 10,000 Btu. and had to change some of the plumbing because this compressor has a relief valve inside that allows the refrigerant to cycle back through it if the pressure is out of limits.
A good feature.
I have most of it complete now and will evacuate the system today for a leak check.
I have another compressor 12,000 btu, I'm saving this one for when I get it right. Will update what happens next.---------Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 04:40am 01 Oct 2011
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OK,---It Works!!!.

The system is tight. I waited 2 hours for the Vac. needle to drop, it did not happen!
I carefully added oil and then 1 lbs of refrigerant, Hit the switch and watched the evaporator pressure drop slowly to about 5 psi. So I knew it was pumping, no smoke or unusual noises.

I opened another can of fridge and fed it very slowly into the running system.
When the can was empty the pressure in the evaporator settled at 40 psi.
This is a bit low for the Condenser temperature I was looking for (115 120)F.I,m probably running more superheat than needed because the Water Temp around the evaporator is 50D F. This refrigerant P/T is 52/50.
I didn't install a High side port to measure the Pressure so I will use a thermometer
instead.
I had ordered only 4 lbs Refrigerant and used 2 of them on the first trial.
Now I will order more and a couple Spares.

I ran it for about 2 hours this evening to evaluate performance and to locate faults
that can be put in order.
I Opened a couple while gloating over it and taking temperature readings at the outlet register.

This pic. is the air temperature coming from the outlet in the living room.



I would like it to read 44 or 46 C. I've got to be careful and watch the compressor temp because it runs much hotter than the circulated air.

Some of the grass and weeds are coming back in the area where i dug the ditch and my drive way is open and solid again.
the water system is working fine no Troubles Mate.


Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 05:51am 02 Oct 2011
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Greetings.

I spent the day trying to get more air flow and correcting a vibration noise.
A couple of thick rubber washers isolated the condenser from the wood frame and stopped the noise. The air flow has been a pain since the start and I'm sure its the flexible duct causing turbulent flow. I will change this to thin wall PVC in a couple of weeks.

Air temp at the register is 38'C. and the compressor heats a little more than I like after 3 hours of run time I shut it down until I get more refrigerant.
The low pressure in the evaporator is causing superheated gas to circulate and the compressor is starved for vapor which aids cooling.

-----Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
Greenbelt

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Joined: 11/01/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 566
Posted: 03:40am 21 Oct 2011
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Hi all,

This Update Concludes the Heat Pump Project.

I have added more refrigerant to the system and now have an output Air temperature of 110 D.Fht. evaporator is operating at 52 psig. I have a Good sweat on the suction line,
(no frost) and the compressor is working well. Its been fun ? Sometime later I will figure the performance Versus Resistance heat and post the Result.

Thanks for Coming along ------------Cheers, Roe
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True?
 
VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539
Posted: 06:14am 21 Oct 2011
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Hi Roe

Sounds all good, top marks for persistence during adversity, will be very interested to hear the comparison.

All the best

Bob
Foolin Around
 
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