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Forum Index : Solar : Going off grid
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
This diary will be about the solar/battery/inverter install I will be doing at my new property. Later as I add windmills, etc, to increase its capacity, I'll start other diaries about those projects. So far, I have the solar panels. 
These were bought from forum member Trev at Basicly Natural. There are 2 175W 24V panels in each box, and 6 boxes are for me, the others for someone else. 12 panels is 2100 watts, which should be enough to get me started. I'm going for a Latronics 7kW sinewave 48V inverter. I wanted an inverter that was big enough to handle any load I would normally use in the workshop, including the welders, and the Latronics fits the bill nicely. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn Looks like a good start and a good inverter as well. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Glen, 2100 wts. is a sizeable amount, and should be enough to keep you in the game of life all by its self. I wish I'd purchased something simular for my place, but still have'nt bitten the bullet. I agree with Bob, a very good start. Regards, Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Today I started on the battery box. 
It was an old bench I picked up from my Dad. I added the new steel seen in silver zinc coat. I still need to grind out some rust in the original frame, then paint the whole thing. The bottom half will be enclosed with doors on the front to access the battery bank. I positioned the shelf at ground level to make it easy to lift the batteries into place, and stop snakes hiding underneath. I'll use plywood to enclose it, line the bottom with a rubber sheet, and add a few 100mm ventilation holes top and bottom of the back panel, covered with mest to stop mice, etc. The top half will have a backing board with the inverter, controller, etc mounted on it. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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MrDelanco Senior Member  Joined: 12/11/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 101 |
Good start Glenn I found that it may be wise to use more then one inverter, just a thought from a past experience I had when I started with the solar. Another thought is that not all inverters can be combined their output may need to be separated from each-other. Great start you have there. Cheers Robert. MrDelanco:Project Videos It is not only too know what it does but to understand how it does what it does. |
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philb Regular Member  Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
That's going to be very nice. I will also be building one in a few months. What type will you paint the metal frame so it can withstand corrosion? Epoxy? I'll be glad to see my panels arrive. I hope you continue to post your solar (and wind) setup. The details can make or break a system. I'm looking forward to your next post. Phil philb |
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solarwind Regular Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: South AfricaPosts: 51 |
Good going Glenn! Nice to see what you are doing. Slowly but surely people here in South Africa are also starting to wake up. See, our electricity supplier neglected to plan properly for the future, so now they apply very expensive "first aid"! They actually burn diesel fuel at a rate of 40 000 liters per hour per alternator and there are already many alternators around the country. I now fully understand why there is an annual tariff increase of at least 25%! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate that it is better to rather stock up on Solar panels, batteries, wind chargers, solar water heaters etc. This is the way to go, man! 
I am also slowly "stocking up" on all these items and already I use my home-made water heater. Purchased a 48V, 3.6kW pure sine wave inverter, 4 x 125W PV panels, busy with F&P type wind charger etc. will have to get more panels and batteries in near future. Can't wait to finally put everything together and smile at my utility bill! Regards to all! Johann. You don't have success until you've tried it! |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah Robert, I do have a small backup inverter, just enough to power a few lights and a PC or TV. Philb I was just going to give it a few coats of enamel. There is already some possum pee corrosion on part of it, so I dont expect it to last forever. What I am concerned about though is the effect the fumes may have on the wall of the shed behind the battery box. I might try to duct the fumes outside. If I run a 4 inch PVC pipe from the box, up the wall and outside, the natural convection will keep the battery box hydrogen free and the fumes outside, in theory. Johann yes electricity prices, like fuel prices, are only going to go up. No point complaining about it, we need to get on with adjusting to the change. Today I picked up the inverter. 7kW 48V Latronics. Heavy little bugger! 
I wont buy the batteries until I'm ready for them. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn You mentioned earlier you where going to mount the inverter and other bits above the battery pack, over the years I have seen a lot of corrosion damage on electronic mounted close to batteries, it may be better to mount on a wall a few feet away, Even with the best battery ventilation system the corrosion sneeks in. Bob Foolin Around |
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| windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
Glenn I am with Bob on corrosion but also because hydrogen is so sneaky I would be concerned about it infiltrating the inverter, also I suspect it would not meet code. One takes it that you will use wet cell batteries by your description. A of J "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Taking it in Bob and Alan. What I'm thinking is painting the inside of the battery compartment with tar to make it watertight, and adding a PC fan to the chimney to ensure I get air movement through the compartment and out the pipe. I really cant avoid mounting the inverter, etc, on the panel above the battery box. I can understand is wouldn't be a good idea to mount the inverter above the batteries if there was no barrier between them, besides, you could drop something onto the batteries. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn A convection chimney on the end or the back may help too as any electrical device in a hydrogen rich atmosphere can be a hazard, the hydrogen being light will rise up the chimney along with warmth from the batteries and cause a natural convection. Any sparking or arcing of relays or components could cause a problem. In the old days of 32 volt I was called to repair a unit that the farmer had enclosed in a little shed, batteries and controller, when I arrived all that was there was the batteries sitting on the floor with the shed spread over the paddock, I suspect an arc in the controller and hydrogen in an enclosed area to be the cause. If you use a fan it may be a idea to use a venturi so the fan is running in clean air. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Trev Guru Joined: 15/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 640 |
Glenn, In Kiribati we built compost toilets that had a natural convection. The flu pipe we painted black to assist the sun to heat the air in the pipe, thus making it rise up the pipe drawing the smell from the chamber at the bottom. Hydrogen is lethal when ignited, so care must be taken to keep the hydrogen and sources of ignition separate. Lead acid batteries are the problem. Wet cell worse than sealed AGM. Here is a picture of my younger brother's brand new deep cycle battery he fitted to his 4WD. 
I agree 100% Bob, batteries and electronics all in a small shed is a no no. I got called to check a job from another installer. Everything was in a small garden shed. The shed was still there, but the wire size was too small, obviously had been over heated, particularly the connections. The batteries were stuffed, run flat. And 8 of the 12 panels had failed. This small shed was at the back of the house, just out from the kitchen. This was a disaster waiting to happen. If it blew, I think you would be cooking more than steaks. Here is a picture of my setup at present. This is in a very open breezway beside the carport. Some readers may recognise the batteries. They did 10,000km in the EV Hilux and replaced with Lithium when they arrived. These AGM's are still very good. Philm the last of the black CAT batteries died a little while ago (on the end disconnected). I have my 200ah Lithium camper set in its place, connected in series with the top row of AGM's and parallel with the rows of AGM's below. 
Trev @ drivebynature.com |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yes you have to treat wet cells with a lot of respect. The battery rooms I maintained at Telecom have a bunch of safety design features, especially regarding ventilation. They used natural convection to keep the air moving, with vents at the top and bottom, and I remember the fluro lights on the ceiling were encased. Basically, keep it ventilated and dont have any electronics in the battery room other than what was needed. The power and control equipment was situated in another room. They also had a strict policy about any metallic jewelry when working on the cells. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Glenn Looks like I was preaching to the converted, but others may read and get some help, we do not want to create another big bang theory. After making several my self it can be expensive and painful. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| philb Regular Member Joined: 05/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 96 |
I'm going to be setting up a big battery bin in the near future. I appreciate all the information. I'm thinking of making a battery bin made of wood and painted inside and out with epoxy paint. Surely there is a cheaper way to go that's just as good. I hesitate on using anything that is tar based because of the trouble I'd get into when I go in the house. 
For Bob and others, this may be old stuff, but the safety aspect needs to be repeated several times for it to sink in to my thick head. Is it better to place the battery fan in the flue exhaust or would it be better on the intake? No pokes intended Glen.  philb |
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| Barry T Coles Senior Member Joined: 30/07/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 109 |
Hi Philb It would be better to place the fan on the intake pushing the air through because the fumes from the batteies would kill the fan in no time at the exhaust end & there is the chance of an explosion if a short was to happen in the presense of an explosive gas. Cheers Barry I need to learn from the mistakes of others. I dont have the time to make them all myself. |
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Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190 |
Hi Glenn, While natural convection currents and the fact that hydrogen is lighter than air may satisfactorily ventilate your battery compartment, I think that I would rather have a fan assist - particularly while the batteries are actually being charged and hence evolving gas. The only problem is that a fan in the exhaust stream is a corrosion and electrical spark risk, and a fan on the intake side will tend to pressurise the battery compartment, and may result in some fume leakage into your shed rather than up the flue. Maybe the answer is to incorporate a vertical venturi in the flue, and fit the fan below it blowing up into the venturi. That way the fan only works in clean air, and the battery fumes would be drawn out by the reduced pressure in the venturi, and also further diluted by the air from the fan. Regards. Don B |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Barry and Don, The "exhaust" will be about 3 meters above the battery box, and poke out about 1 meter from the shed wall, with a 45 degree bend at the end to stop any rain. I've been checking out some PVC water tank fittings and bought a couple of stainless steel mesh mosquito barriers. If I fit one of these at the end of the exhaust pipe, and the fan after that, then any explosion/fire in the fan wont get past the mesh. I'm using a 120mm PC 12v brusless fan. I'll fit another mesh at the bottom of the pipe where it enters the batttery box. So long as the air is moving, I wont get enough concentrated H to give a explosive mixture. Remembering an explosion doesn't like to be contained helps, the exhaust pipe joins will be loose fitting, as will the battery box door catches. I'm not too concerned about the gas, so long as I think about the design and stick by a few rules, its will be perfectly safe. It's just like a battery bank in a boat or remote site. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
I would be thinking along the lines of a wind powered ventilator such as a "Wirly" type or the mushroom type they use on boats , this would eliminate the hassle of the fan and also wasting power driving it . Even a bit of natural ventilation would be adequate . I also sometimes wonder if the suggestions made by others are actually what they would do or have done on their own systems? PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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