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Forum Index : Solar : modern battery tester for AGM battery how do they work?
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| rgormley Senior Member  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
I picked from Gumtree 4x 12v 140AH AGM deep cycle batts on the cheap (Giant power 140ah deep cycle) they were listed with a percentage figure on them. I asked the guy where and how he came up with the figures. He said he used a king chrome battery tester... OK now the questions: i am old school when it comes to testing batteries... i fully charge them stick a hefty load on them and monitor the volts (drop). and make a judgement call on the SOC so my question is: these new newfangled electronic testers A:how the heck do they measure the SOC and give all the stats that they do? B: most videos i have watched show people testing car batteries and they input the CCA into the tester, and it spits out the details about the battery. what happens if you want to test a AGM deep cycle that are rated in AH (140AH in my case)?? are these electronic testers a worthwhile investment? i`m playing with a desulfator on some smaller 12v VRLA batts and thought it would be a good idea to have one of these testers to see the before and after results? cheers, Richard |
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Clockmanfr Guru  Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
Hi, I have some old AGM's that are on there last legs. 105ah 12v. I now have mostly 12v 110ah VRLA's. Golf cart/marine type batteries. Recommended this meter by 'Frackers' in New Zealand. This is what i use to check what the internals of the battery are doing especially the ah rate. By comparing the meter to the correct setting of what the battery manufacturer says. I charge battery then leave 12 hours, then test, if the meter says its not getting to that setting, then I downgrade the meter, mine goes down to 35ah and up in 05ah steps to 220ah setting until the meter says it is happy, then i get an indication of the batteries true ah against what it should be. This is good if you have strings and can match batteries that are wired in series then each is fairly giving the same ah. The positive and neutral cables are heavy, so i suspect that the meter has a resistance coil and shunt arrangement that a microprocessor can sense reasonably accurately and use a memory of calibrated settings to compare against. It has a good PCU that comes directy from the big cables for its own power so cabling is just the 2 cables. So switch on and off is connect and disconnect the good croc clips. Lots of settings you can pre-set but i stay with the basics depending on the battery types. Mine was not expensive, and takes the hassle and time out of checking a battery bank to find the faulty one. I have sometimes just turned up at a strange battery bank and tested the batteries that are charged and uncharged. And the meter gives me a good indication of the state of the batteries and what needs what. Had some new batteries arrive from a retailer here in France, never used this firm before, but a charge and a test revealed a bad ah rate, and not as per specs. Sent it back with pics of my meter readings and got my money back. Wont use them again and warned others around me. Photos show faulty New battery and the meter at work, it also has a data output link, but i have enough paper work as it is.  And this was what i paid for, i know these, but the battery in the above photo that i received was an India recycled sort of copy.  Personally i like the meter as it adds to my experiences of batteries, its not perfect but sure helps, and good to show friends/clients actual written/displayed results. I trust this helps. Edited 2021-09-24 18:03 by Clockmanfr Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
(sorry for the long time in replying) ok,so for AGM (or non CAR batteries) we can just measure the internal resistance with these type of meters and use that as a bench mark? I have a mix of batts in my bank (yes i know it bad to mix, but it`s what i get for free, or cheaply) I just want to start weeding out the weaker batteries. I must have some serially rooted batteries.... i have over 400AH of capacity, but even just pulling 10 amps over night the inverter gives out on low battery volts hence wanting to test each batt individually just not sure if this electronics thingy will be good for giving results.. (or should i just go the old way, and load them up with say a 12v 100Watt (6,7,8 amp) car headlight and measure the volt sag over time... |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
I have had battery banks for nearly 20 years now. And at first they were AGM's as got them very cheaply as they came out of Mobile phone masts back up supply and they would be changed every 4 years. So most were good. But they were a lot of work sorting out good from bad and if one was weak it would drag down the other 3 in the string. So in a sense it was the old way i checked the batteries. Now i replaced all my 28off 105ahr AGM's with Golf cart/Marine type batteries, and decided i needed a test meter. I asked around on the forums and this particular one was recommended. Now it does not do singing and dancing but instead it adds to the Info. But using it as comparator from one battery to the other it works real well and yes even on my remaining 4off AGMs that i use on my Inverter test beds rig. But even on brand new batteries it will show up slight differences. Here's a link and at the price, WOW. https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/ancel-ba101-battery-tester.html?d=y&origin=y&catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20211003025404&SearchText=ancel%20ba101%20battery%20testerhttps://www.aliexpress.com/premium/ancel-ba101-battery-tester.html?d=y&origin=y&catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20211003025404&SearchText=ancel%20ba101%20battery%20tester Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
battery tester came in ANCEL BST100 12V 220Ah 2000CCA Battery Load Tester Vehicle Battery Analyzer Tool and i have recorded the stats of a few batteries i will run the desulfater on them for a week and re-record any improvements i have a question(s): how would i test a smaller 33AH gel battery? if if the min CCA setting on the tester is 100CCA i suppose i can just run a test and record the results and do the same test in a week (using the same settings) and compare the difference?... if my giant AGM is 140AH do i just dial up 140AH CCA on the tester? i tried this and the tester came back with CCA capabilities of 554cca!! hhmmm... also what the heck are DIN, EN and IEC can i use these details on my smaller 33ah gel battery? where would i find this information? just found this https://battery-service.com/support/cca/ is this what i need? Cheers... Edited 2021-10-21 19:32 by rgormley |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
I was interested on one of these particularly for Testing Batteries at the wreckers. I know an amount of good batteries are Chucked by mistake though bad alternators. Would be good to have something that I could walk up to a pile of unknowns and maybe flat batteries and be able to tell the good from the bad without having to charge them which would not be practical Is there anything that can do that? Would this tester be able to give an indication of good and bad batteries through resistance or other measurement than a correlation between voltage or state of charge? Just because a battery is low does not mean it's bad. There is also the other thing that a battery may be low on CCA but not to bad on actual capacity. I imagine standby batteries are like this. I'm a bit cashed up atm and wouldn't mind some useful new toys even if they aren't the cheapest. Something like this would be great to have as I expect to have an offgrid setup sometime in the not too distant future. The ability to determine good from bad used batteries would be a real asset. |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
rgormley, Here in Europe we use EN, European Norm, but half the time the battery you are testing is pretty bad at what norms it has been tested. I stick to the AH setting on quick test, the CCA numbers i ignore, as the ANCEL is not that sophisticated to get those spot on, but not that bad. Try 35ah the lowest setting, on your battery and see waht happens, if its new it will give details and shouldn't fail, ie tell you to replace but tell what % its getting to that 35ah. Try on a new one. And try on a old one. Old ones are fun if they are holding say 12.98vdc, put in what the battery says its ah rate is the ANCEL will give you a % on the healthy % to low then it says replace, keep downrating the ah on each test until the ANCEL says that you don't need to replace but healthy % will tell you what AH the battery can really give you. This above test method i use all the time to see how long my car battery or individual batteries in Strings are doing and going. My Toyota original battery was a big 70ah, its now after 10 years down to 50ah. Same with string battery's on my banks, i check each of the 4 batteries in a string. Being a string the ah output to the main Bank connection will always go down to the lowest ah rating. So say when new they are all the same and rated at 12v 110ah, then over years as long as the ah rating of each is about the same then no issues. But sometimes i find one battery shows lower voltage testing with a voltmeter, then the ANCEL can then test each ah rating with out haveing to disconnect the string. At present i have one that i have removed at 70ah while the other 3 are about 100ahs As i said earlier the ANCEL is not a precision meter, but very good at being a comparator, by testing the batteries for ah against its internal testing resistor load against set resistance readings, when you press that ENTER/TEST button. Davo99, Took my ANCEL to a friends bank of 24 12v batteries that were new but not installed yet and been sitting waiting to be used for 6 years and had not been charged for some time. I tested some that were below 13v but above 11.5v. The ANCEL could differentiate between a fu.ked and one that might recover if charged. In the end the ANCEL reckoned 12 of them were goner's. I believe there are commercial battery testers that will do what you want, but they are very expensive. Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
"Try 35ah the lowest setting" is there some setting where i can input lower sttings? from the instructions / features is says it can go down as low as 3AH I`m not sure how to get to this as all the menus i looked at only go as low as 100AH? 3.Wide testing range cover from CCA 100- 2000 , 3- 220 AH, best in the market. 9.Testing standards include currently the world's majority of battery standards, CCA, BCI, CA, MCA, JIS, DIN, IEC, EN, SAE, GB. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Thanks Clockman. I might get one and give it a go and see if I can learn how to master the thing in the info it provides. I was wondering if internal resistance can be used as any sort of indicator as to the condition of unknown batteries? Is there a ballpark figure for certain voltages that one could get an indication from or do they all vary due to capacity or other parameters? |
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| Old Seagull Man Regular Member  Joined: 21/12/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 55 |
Interesting reading. I see the odd forklift and golf cart battery, Anyone know of a unit that will work with 6volts and 8volts not the most common cell voltage I know. |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
rgormley, I have not deeply examined the ANCEL, but it is data linked and if i recall 'Frackers' connects his to a PC/laptop, so maybe its in there. Sorry never really got that deep. Davo99, Not sure about unknown but i start by guessing by the physical size and weight, years of dealing with all sorts gives some rough guides. The voltage is a rough guide, ie resting after a 24hour rest and charged and then rested gives a generally good idea of the health but the ANCEL then tests the AH and that gives the next level if the battery is a goer. For those of you interested im my PLANTE do it yourself build, I am now writing on this US forum as one of the mods has asked me. https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,150445.0.htmlhttps://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,150445.0.html I trust it helps. Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1022 |
Interesting about the battery building, I have had a lot of the old pasted plate batteries Dunlop, chloride, Exide, I had thought about making my own years ago, first thing, the lead sheet was a bit expensive, Then try to find Sulfuric Acid, They don't sell it in AUS anymore, that through a spanner in the works, Acid can be collected but, it will be well diluted. Best of luck with it.  Did a rough test to check for bad starting batteries, connected them in series and give them a good load to see which one drops its guts too fast, The battery tester might show more detail. This might be the simple check for small batteries of lower voltage. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
I wish you posted more of your research and projects here. I was on that forum years ago and the deranged obsession with some of the admins there that everything alternative also meant it had to be obsessively green was pathetic. I butted heads and was threatened by one of the now admins, Damon, because I questioned his Idea of having laptops discharge back into the grid at night to save emissions from FF fuelled power stations. That's the kind of over the top green obsession they were over run with there. Of course the mention of oil burning even being renewable veg had me labelled " an environmental Terrorist".  Was pretty clear the site owner at the time was also a Drunk. He would go off on completely irrational tirades which made no sense what so ever to anyone and then recant them. Went off at my several times ( and others) carrying on about things never said nor alluded to. Ridiculous. I see many of the same people are still there. Shame. There is one thing strikes me with the plante battery. One of it's key features of longevity is really not of use or concern to me. I see you say it will last 40-50 years. I reckon I'll be doing well to last 20 so 20 years past my lifetime isn't going to be a lot of use!  I'd be very interested in how you go with it though. I don't see size/ capacity as all that big of a deal. OK, so you have something 3 times the size of a similar Forklift pack for the same capacity. Build a bigger shed to put it in and that's that. I'll bet the extra cost would be next to nothing but there are many advantages to this battery in other ways not the least being the ability to repair/ recondition it if needed. I have watched those vids of the Indians repairing batteries. Clever but they seem to me they always put less plates in the things and they would have much reduced capacity. If I had the skills and bravery, I'd be tending to turn them all into 2V high capacity batteries instead for storage use. that could make them very worth while. I looked at getting some plates to play around with but the cost of getting them here made buying a battery just as cost effective. I remember my grandfather melting a couple of old batteries to make fishing sinkers. Surprisingly there wasn't all that much lead in them time you took out all the packing etc. He only ever did it once because wasn't worth the time and effort not to mention the danger even he recognised back then for the return. I read of Tony's " Capacitor " form factor battery idea and I couldn't see why that wouldn't work. It's very similar to the way lipo cells are made now anyway. Seems a very straightforward way of doing them. Anyway, Hope you post more of your work on this here, even if it is just a copy of what you put on the other site. At least you would get some broader feedback on your work and ideas. With the battery tester, if one put in different capacity's for the same battery, how does this affect the readings? Just to say it's at a higher or lower capacity than it Might actually be? If one were testing batteries from the scrap yard, I guess anything that showed over 50% might be worth while for the price. The fact that even a good battery is odds on to be discharged is the spanner in the works. That's why I was wondering if internal resistance was a guide as I Imagined that would not change with charge status.... or would it? I think I'm going to have to look for a 12V battery charge indicator. My Daughter has this habit of sitting in her car playing the stereo and talking on the phone for hours sitting in the driveway. Not like she doesn't have her own bedroom or her own entire lounge room separate to do that. Did it the other night and when she came in I said did you turn off the Dome lights so as to not flatten the battery. Yes.... Of course goes to go to work next morning and the thing won't kick over. The battery in the car is only as big as a Torch battery. It takes the stupid small Diameter posts so I might put some new terminals on the thing and put in the biggest battery that will fit. She will still probably flatten that. I have a solar panel on a trolley I wheel out and connect to charge the thing up she does it that often and I said I'd get roof racks and mount the thing on there permanently but wouldn't be much good as she always does it at night. A charge indicator that beeped or flashed might be the solution. Especially if it annoys her when it goes off. Least then she could start and run the thing a bit to recharge the poor battery before it got past the point of no return. |
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| rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
the "ancel bst200 car battery load tester" i have doe NOT have any usb jacks on it I have not opened it to look inside if it can be "modded" but im not interested in modding it. i only want it to measure internal resistance of batts I had a 12v jump start pack (old school 33AH VRLA) and it was on a solar trickle charge for about 2 years. (floating at 13.8v) i needed to use it one day for a car... the jump pack was dead VERY dead! Zero cranking.. still oddly enough it measured around 12.8 off charge (after 60 minutes) so i stuck the BST200 tester on it cranking capacity 22CCA health 2% charge state 100% internal resistance 25.7 milli ohm voltage 12.8 said replace battery the jump pack is 5 years old it thought the charge state was 100% due to the 12.8v terminal voltage? put a smart charger on it and within 30 seconds just said "full" an no current passing (i presume because of high impedance or hugely sulfated? I will run my desulfator on it for a week and then try to recharge it. may prove if the desulfator device i have does any good (or the battery is truly stuffed) |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
Davo99, Sorry to here of your run in on that other forum. I get on well with two of the mods, as i actually do stuff, and infact on most sustainability/renewable energy forums world wide once the Mods see i am doing stuff and not taking the pizz. ...... I have been thrown off some retail forums for upsetting the commercial supporter of that forum when they are selling stuff that is perhaps misleading. But me telling folk to make it yourself, that tends to be the last straw for them. Anyway, i feel sure you have plenty of years left in you yet. rgormely. Heres a pic of mine with the jack and it came with a cable to USB end.  Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245 |
OOPS... my bad mine is a BST100 (i said it was a BST200 in the above thread) sorry  yes the BST200 has a usb the BST100 does not |
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