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Forum Index : Solar : SA government devalues retailer's stocks of inverters?
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domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873
Posted: 06:08am 16 Jul 2020
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Just found this in my inbox from solarquotesblogs.com.au:
The SA government wants to unilaterally pick technology winners, write inverter standards and architect new grid control schemes. God help us!
This seems to have snuck under the radar: last week, the consultation period for proposed new South Australian smart meter and inverter rules closed and as far as we can tell, even in the renewable energy specialist media it attracted no attention.
The announcement of the consultation is here, and there are three relevant consultation papers (all in PDF):
New customer solar power systems would need to support remote disconnection and reconnection; New inverters connected to the grid would need to meet new voltage ride-through requirements; and New smart meters would need to be two-element, two contact configuration.
As far as we can tell, these proposals passed pretty much unnoticed, which is a pity since the consultation period ended July 10.
The government’s reasoning is that we’re heading into another challenging summer for the South Australian grid, so the Department of Energy and Mining wants the three new standards to come into effect from September 2020. That’s right, this year! CEC: don’t get out of step with the rest of the country
The Clean Energy Council isn’t happy. As CEO Kane Thornton said in a recent newsletter:
“Inverters will need to be retested (and possibly redesigned) and all inverter stock currently held by businesses could become obsolete and worthless in SA from September. At this stage, there are no inverters that have been tested to the new requirements, the final version of which the Australian Energy Market Operator does not propose to publish until July. To make matters worse, obsolete stock might not be usable for replacement under warranty because SA Power Networks prohibits ‘like for like’ replacement unless the inverter meets its current grid connection requirements.”
“At this stage, the best advice we can give small retailers and installers in SA is to run down your inventory, be cautious when buying inverters that do not meet the new requirements and stay in touch with your inverter supplier regarding their plans for redesign (if necessary) and retesting.”
As we mentioned earlier this week and as noted in this media release, the proposals could put South Australia out of step with other states. The media release notes:
“The SA Government is proposing to prematurely force onto the industry its own special and unique requirements for dynamic export limitation, picking technology winners in advance of an Australian Standard or even an industry best practice guideline.”
In the media release, the CEC says adoption of IEEE 2030.5 should be the national objective, rath SORRY - FIND THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE AND FOLLOW THE LINKS TO THE THREE PDF'S GIVEN
Good luck if you live in SA! Edited 2020-07-16 16:10 by domwildTaxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.
Winston Churchill
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512
Posted: 10:10pm 20 Jul 2020
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Someone, somewhere, is losing too much money and needs to make it back... or forcast to lose money, one of the 2... makes you cringe to think these greedy bas$%ards are in charge.I think it works !!
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 09:58pm 01 Sep 2020
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I don't think it's about that. The line voltages keep going too high.
Basically the networks were never designed for solar inputs, as it has grown, the network copes less and less. It's a bit like a storm water drain, too many creeks being fed into it and it doesn't cope. Like it or not, solar and wind is erratic and power networks aren't designed for that. The way forward is more people with batteries. I don't know why big forklift batteries are not being pushed, they are fantastic in a solar role.Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 09:38am 02 Sep 2020
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While this is true, I don't believe it is relevant. If your storm water drain is not coping because of increasing development, you expand it so it can. You just don't stop building homes because the drainage can't cope. Same as not too far from me with the 2nd Sydney airport. They have expanded all the surrounding roads dramatically so they can cope with the increased traffic flow. It's logical.
I also believe this is a purely financial motivation. Everything to do with solar or unreliable energy always is. It's a great excuse for a huge cash cow for gubbermits and Big biz.
While the grid as it is was not designed for solar, it is a very simple matter to make it completely compatible as it is in other countries such as Canada. Renewable energy is encouraged there and people generating power from RE sources( Micro Hydro is a big one there) are well paid and/ of Given a credit to offset other bills on a yearly basis.
They are actually concerned about the environment and not just revenue driven. It does also come down to energy supply with solar obviously taking the weight off the grid when demand is at it's highest.
The hypocrisy here in oz would be laughable if it were not so transparent. The power cos push the green BS by encouraging people to pay MORE for " Green Power" from them, but them but then discourage and try and limit it when you are making your own solar energy which they see as a threat to their disgusting profits.
The thing of too much power in some places is a fallacy. It is a PREDICTION it -may- happen but it's not a reality in this country yet and is at least years away. Voltage rise on the system is not a solar feed in problem, it's a maintenance and investment in the system problem. In 3 years I have yet to see the grid Voltage at the proper level, and generally barely within the limits. I get High voltage at 3am and where I am, not a whole lot of solar pushing grid Voltage up then.
To cope with the solar input new transformers need to be installed. These are available and in wide use in other grids. Most of the transformers here are 50 years old at least either in design or actual age. Auto tapping and auto power adjusting ( not sure of the technical name) transformers are out there. The power cos CAN install them here but simply don't want to tap into their collective $3 BILLION profit a year. The excuse of forcing power prices up is BS. With that much Profit there is plenty of margin for infrastructure upgrade. It would reduce profits and the huge bonuses to directors whom are paid on the profits the company earns so they come up with BS for those whom are unaware of the way big business works. The fearmongering of Power prices going up will scare a lot of people into letting things go and not looking further into the real situation either financially or Technically.
If power can be pushed one way down a wire, it can go the other. Every home has an allowance and I'd suggest that's a lot more than the 5KW feedback of most systems. Even small new butterbox houses around me have a 15Kw allocation. My own house is 20 Kw... per all 3 phases. No question about the grid not being able to cope with it.
The problem is the CONTROL systems are outdated and in many cases can't even cope with just the draw loads they were designed for. As more and more electric appliances become available and electricity over gas is encouraged by the do gooders, the demand increases but the network, specifically Transformers, are is only upgraded as a last resort.
The grid is basically a mess. The power cos whinge that there is too much solar power and then the first hot day they whinge there isn't enough power to go round because people add a few KW to their consumption
One excuse the power companies use to NOT upgrade the system and bring it to modern times is cost. When it came to installing smart meters, they had no problems spending billions on that because contrary to the cover story, they knew it would increase their revenues and profits. Makes me laugh when Big biz pushes things to " Save their customers Money". What moron would believe that? If one looks at the laws governing CEO and board members, They are OBLIGATED to do their best to increase profits and revenue of the company. If it can be shown they didn't do this, then they can be up on serious Charges. Saving their customers Money would in fact amount to breaking the law.
The Bullsh*t of Solar overwhelming the networks is just that. It's nothing more than a cover story for the power cos to limit residential solar generation in order to protect their obscene profits.
If the power cos were really as concerned about the environment and the effects of solar input, why do they still continue to build their own solar farms at their own expense? If there is too much solar on the system already, clearly they don't need to build more solar farms and increase the erratic nature of its output and effect on the grid.
Of course it IS all profit motivated because they can profit from the power they make from their own installations, especially as the gubbermint subsidies pay for most of it, but the power their customers make represents a Revenue loss.
Pretty Typical really and why I have no respect for these hypocritical, greedy organizations.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:04am 02 Sep 2020
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The way forward is more people with batteries. I don't know why big forklift batteries are not being pushed, they are fantastic in a solar role.
I disagree. It is not up to the power company customers to prop up a greedy, manipulative, profiteering industry. It is up to the power co's to get their own sh*t in order which they profit so much from.
The whole reason solar and the initial Incentives for home owners were brought to Oz in the first place was because the grid was on the verge of collapse and they were trying to buy some time to get their house in order then. The customers took on solar, propped up the industry and where are we now? In the same damn mess and it IS going to get worse, much worse and the gubbermint and the power companies know that and are duck shoving the responsibility.
The problem with batteries is of cost First and foremost, the cost. Batteries are still not financially viable, not even close in comparison to the cost of power and their capacity. From what I have seen, Forklift batteries are about the Most viable but like anything else, increase demand and prices head north.
With respect, Before anyone says they will get cheaper with mass production, there are MILLIONS of LA batteries made every year. The tech is well developed in the manufacturing practices and the materials used. Lead is an expensive material and the alternatives are more expensive still.
Of course the other problems are size and maintenance. No room for a lawn mower in new homes and lets face it, the audience here is by modern standards, a bunch of freaks. People with DIY capability or even inclination are getting more and more rare. Even topping up an auto watering system would be something most people would not only not want to know about but Freak out about. My own father is Very handy but when it comes to electricity.... he's been waiting for me for 5 weeks to get back here and change the power pint for him. People want things like power walls which are pretty much set and forget with the " enthusiasts" wanting to play with the things only with their laptop, not actually touch the things.
Again, it is up to the power companies to fix their own businesses, not the responsibility of their customers to go to more trouble and expense because of their mismanagement of an essential service.
They DO have the money to fix the problems, they are just fleecing the system so they don't have to.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512
Posted: 09:30pm 03 Sep 2020
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Well said davo, just had this conversation with one of the workers from the power company, we have a power poll out front that is badly " twisted " ( his words not mine ) and assumed it had been struck by lightning recently ( last 5 or so years ) and desperately needs to be replaced. We get cyclones up here yearly, so if this pole is compromised its dangerous. That was about a year ago i had that conversation. Nothing has been done other than wrapped a bit of sticky tape around damage and nail a tag to it, on his words again, because it costs to much to replace it.
Now what gets me is that pole has been there since the 80s ( my neighbor has been here since new ) and they have been making money of it for the whole time, but now it needs replacing it " too expensive " , guess im too dumb to figure it out, but wouldn't it have paid for itself by now ??I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 07:20am 07 Sep 2020
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I think the cost is irrelevant to them. The power industry in Oz make over $3Bn net profit a year. They are not loosing money, they are paying directors and board millions and still make that sort of profit so any argument of Costs is irrelevant.
I read an article a while back about how little they are putting into maintenance and infrastructure. The creditable conclusion of the ex power industry author was the power co's would spend nothing, suck all the profits they could and then when the whole grid was on the verge of collapse as blind freddy can see it racing to headlong now, The gubbermint will have to bail it out at taxpayers expense and the power co's will reap the benefit some more.
It's the exact same thing they have done with other essential services.
The whole BS facade of privatizing the power industry was to create competition and lower prices. All it achieved was non organised collusion and rorting on a biblical scale.
If technology every became available that would make DIY power Viable and cheaper than Grid power, the power co's would be screaming for tariffs and protection to be put on it to save their profiteering arses.
I have nothing but contempt for these companies, their directors and the Gubbermits that not only get away with their scams but support them by throwing millions of tax payer money at them.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 08:16am 07 Sep 2020
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Yup.
When it was all totally Government owned and run, the bloated public service was wide open to theft, fraud, and rorting. To change a single fuse up a pole three miles away, might take five vehicles and fifteen people a whole day.
So the whole lot was privatized. Its still hugely inefficient, but crafting all the rorts and outright blatant theft became slightly more difficult when expenses had to be accounted for.Cheers, Tony.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578
Posted: 10:02am 07 Sep 2020
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An old schoolmate of mine was a storeman for Sydney electricity. He reckoned he was THE most well trained storeman in the whole world. He had been trained in so many things completely irrelevant to his position it was incredible. All thanks to the policy/ requirements of Ongoing training.
He was very happy in his job, thought he was well paid and not hard worked and had no ambition of Climbing up the ladder. Still, they Had to send him to all these training courses and being his job never changed over the years, they had to find something to send him to.
The stories he used to tell me of the goings on there were pretty hilarious. The rorting as you say was so over the top by the higher ups who were all over the average workers you couldn't help but laugh. Mate said he had a job for life because he had so much on so many of the managers he could not show up for 6 months and they still wouldn't say a word to him.
While I spose costing everyone, somehow the current situation seems more sinister and frankly insulting. At least the public were not getting fleeced left right and centre and being told they " were working hard to lower power Prices" at the same time as they were making Record Profits.
Despite all the typical inefficiency, it was costing the Gubbermint and the population less to have power because while the costs were there, the profiteering wasn't.
As far as 15 People to change a fuse, I don't think much has Changed. The origin crew that came to my fathers place a couple of months ago were much the same. Bunch of blokes, trucks and even erecting safety barriers on private property 400M from any boundary and about 10% of the manpower and equipment being utilised. Don't even mention the sh*t job and their subsequent required return to fix the damage they did. Only finished cleaning up the aftermarth of that yesterday. Still going to have to bring my big chainsaw up to finish the job properly.
The planned closure of the current power stations with no reliable Base load backup is getting closer all the time yet nothing is being done to ensure the reliability of supply. Those that think unreliables are any answer are in for a big shock. The power companies will of course let things get to a shambles and then when the population is screaming and it becomes a real issue, they know the Gubbermints will be the ones to wear the wrath of the community and the power cos will get great fat handouts to invest in what they should have from the start instead of just Siphoning all the profits they have.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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