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Forum Index : Solar : Capacitor Battery
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Revlac Guru  Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
A few years back I did see a documentary about building a new type of capacitor for energy storage, for solar and possibly for cars? don't know what happened later. Now I see this. https://solarbatteriesonline.com.au/super-capacitors/ Sirius Capacitor module. Any thoughts on this? or is it just like other storage solutions that never proved worthwhile? Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
That link does not appear to work. Please make links 'hotlinks' by clicking the 4th icon (from left) above and following instructions. Years ago I bought a bank of 30,000F/2.7V supercaps to boost my then too small 24V battery bank & inverter to be able to start up a fridge. This worked very well. I even tested that suoercap bank connected for 12V to start a car engine. It would run a small light for very long. For long term energy storage the supercap would have to be massive but for short time boost they work well. Klaus |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Who knows what is around the corner in battery technology, it would have to be one of the biggest areas of demand as the Solar and EV revolution picks up pace. There is huge dollars waiting for lightweight, high capacity, compact and everlasting cheap batteries. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
super capacitors I hope that works or I might get demoted.  Tinker I had a friend who had the same trouble trying to start a fridge on a 12v inverter, gathered up some caps but never got round to trying it. Aldi recently sold a capacitor jump starter Would have liked to have a look at the guts of it. If they want people to buy these things the demand is here and now but as with everything the price of storage is still a high price to pay. I do like the charge rate for the 48v 3350Wh unit 100amp! Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
The way I see this, is based on my night time consumption and a decent amount of solar panels to charge them up on a cloudy day I would eventually only need enough battery storage for 1 night plus a little bit more in reserve. Recently had a look at an old home power book 1980's or so, the recommendation was to have battery storage to last about 7 day's, at the price these days, ouch. But solar has come a long way since then, and now most of us are heading towards more solar panels and less reliance on large battery packs if we can manage a full charge every day and battery storage of?? What 3 days or so. ATM my battery pack wont last much more than a night and a half as I chose not to run them down too far. I guess this will come down to the cost of caps V'S batteries in price and amount of cycles/how many years they will last.  Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
super cap Dunno what sort of cost, but you could make your own if you are keen enough. ... I think it works !! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
There are two fundamentally different types of ultra capacitors. The cheap ones are only designed to provide very low current for a very long time, for example for RAM memory backup. They are meant as a battery replacement and are more suitable than a battery for some things. The more expensive ones are true power capacitors that can deliver huge short term current. They are large, heavy and expensive. You can usually tell the difference by the connections. The memory backup capacitors have frail legs, the power capacitors use a bolt and a threaded hole. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
The unit I was referring to cost about $4755.00 Must have a heap of capacitors in it, 75Kg I guess some of the price may be because of the long lifetime compared to other tech, seems plausible it may well be cheaper in the longterm? Should of put this in before, here is the Data Sheet . Will see how the reviews go and keep an eye open for all types of solar storage Another Note: I'am no longer a believer in the (You Get What You Pay For) Rule, just doesn't stick any more. (caught out a few times). Should be, Pay what it should be worth.  Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
Warpspeed Power capacitor, This should meet the description of a power capacitor. Found it in the shed in a box full of other large one's, bit of a collection over the years.   Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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| hotwater Senior Member  Joined: 29/08/2017 Location: United StatesPosts: 120 |
I have a DVM with no battery, it came with a 1F cap and meter charged it from almost any voltage source. Bought it 20 years ago because I would always get to a job site and find I had a dead battery. That idea never took off and never saw these offered again. That cap became pretty leaky and replaced it with a 4uF for even more run time. |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Anyone remember the CSIRO developed Ultrabattery ? I have never actually seen one. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1024 |
I haven't seen them either. Found a few links, The CSIRO Ultra battery Here And this one from ecoult Here Tidy looking unit. I get the impression that some of the storage technology being developed may never be available to the home user. Also had a look at some of the small super caps available, some have a very short cycle life. Had some small bad caps (Faulty Manufacture) in a computer main board and some in the PSU, They went off with a Loud CRACK, made me jump out of my seat.  Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
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solarwind Regular Member  Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: South AfricaPosts: 51 |
What do you think, suppose you only want to make use of solar and self consumption, using only super capacitors to "fool" the inverter to see the capacitor bank as the battery and then delivers energy directly for consumption in the day? Night time you have to switch over to the utility supply (where available). Just an idea to save on expensive battery bank. Any ideas? You don't have success until you've tried it! |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Hi solar wind, i can share my numbers with you, for a 6kw system with every tweak i can do these are the costs upfront and over ten years.  You can see that the battery investment increases the financial costs over 10 years, from memory this was using 7kw per night from a 10kwh lithium bank that cost around AU$6000. so if the benchmark is grid solar @ 17 cents then diverting power saves you 30% and storing power costs you 30% extra. Bear in mind these numbers are cut to the bone for the perfect large customer. I have seen costs blow out from triple to ten times these numbers. I guess the question is, where do you think a small battery and capacitors would come in that list? I have priced used Maxwell supercaps including freight and balance boards I am looking at around $2400 before I value my time. If we pair this with a 2.5 kwh battery pack we save about $1800-$2100 in capital costs but we add less than 100 watthours to our storage capacity. So we have to buy around 5kwh of energy per night (roughly $2.50). So plus energy cost minus capital on batteries over ten years I think it would be close to 24.1 cents. Edit: my envelope math was wrong I have changed it. I think the benefit could be for a portable workshop where the peak loads are very high and there is almost no night draw. But that application is now being eaten away by cordless tools. maybe for welders and plasma cutters, it might work? I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| solarwind Regular Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: South AfricaPosts: 51 |
Thanks Yahoo 2, Very well explained! I guess my idea will only be feasible for a portable workshop set-up as you have mentioned. An application where electricity would not be needed at night and batteries not really required. I was thinking of the use of an Axpert (MECER) type of inverter which can not operate without a battery. If a bank of capacitors can be sourced at a reasonable cost, then it can be the "battery" for the inverter to keep it happy. You don't have success until you've tried it! |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
"At reasonable cost' is the key, I know a fellow who has just purchased two electric car batteries from a wrecker parting them out, total of 80 Kw for 1200 euro, that amount of grunt would cost me $35,000+ for new cells. Sure there are some weird voltages to deal with if the pack is split into pieces. but, hey for that sort of money I could work around that sort of stuff. I spent a year or so testing a danfoss solar only freezer driver board, great idea! no energy used at night but Danfos dont sell or service anything cheap and the containers of phase change fluid and extra insulation were quite pricy as well. I come to the conclusion it was better to go to the local whitegoods store and buy a Beko freezer for $200, it uses about 40-70 watts and hour and install one extra kwh of battery at $500. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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