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Forum Index : Solar : Solar Pumping
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norcold Guru  Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Gizmo`s got a very valid point. We are not posting our projects, how the blazes can there be any discussion. That aside as some of you are aware I`m fully off grid, with a very limited bore for water, 13 l/min max. So I`ve built a few dams with success with one, it holds water, the rest leak(only when there is water  ). Now I`ve been using those cheap ebay diaphragm pumps conx to solar panels through a maximiser. My latest pump is a double ended 26l/min pump, installed some 6 months ago(2 of). Available from Agri Supplies (ebay).
Because the tank I use as house supply is some 25m above dam water level this pump could not supply at that head with the pumps in "parallel" so replumbed them in "series". Success half the volume but no trouble with the head. Also these pumps are 12v, but has been happily running off 24v for 6 months. Not much flow 5 l/min but have 2 of them going each off a 180watt 24v panel, thus 10l/min, nearly equal to the bore. Place is looking much greener this dry. Ok, fellows are you sitting on your arses hoping to read about others activity. Time we turned off the TV, get with it, we`re not that bloody old. I keep this up I`ll get to be a Guru. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Hi Vic, Our situations sound very similar. Our water is from a bore about 40ft deep and pumps up to a 5000gal tank on top of a hill behind the house. The pump is a Lorentz (German I think - well up that way anyway). It is run off 4 x 65watt 12volt amorphous silicon panels. About the same flow as yours. The pump is a mono style submersible and is controlled by a 3phase (pulse) MCU controlled 48volt DC to 3Ph box of tricks. Very expensive when it s...ts itself as it has done once - lightning strike I think. I'm working on a MCU controlled RF link to switch the pump on and off as needed. Of course, it will only pump in the day time. For the tank level measuring device, I plan on using a capacitive level detector and a pic MCU. The probe consists of a length of twin flex doubled over so that both ends are above the tater level. As the tank fills up, the water surrounding the cable changes the dielectric constant and hence the capacitance. Coupled with a resistor (say 1 meg) the charge time is measured using a counter and comparator. The result is non linear, but a look up table fixes that problem. I last tested it on a PIC12F675 and it worked ok. I think Gizmo also looked at this idea some time ago. The probe doesn't need any temperature compensation as long as a high stability resistor is used. How's the injuries - did you get that rogue scrubber? David M. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Link to the original posting http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5336 Hi All I have been using a 12 volt pump off fleabay for the last year, it sucks from 30000ltr water tank on the shed and so far it has done the job OK it is set up as a pressure pump with a 20 ltr pressure tank for a bit of reserve it handles the house requirements real well and waters the garden and trees, about 30 fruit trees, It is running off some old 40 watt solar panels from the original set up 30 years ago, they are down on power but supply the pump and float all the batteries (12) car 4wd tractor and emergency genny battery. There is sufficient capacity to run the LED lights for the house. The old panels only do 5 amps but it is enough to cycle the regulator by lunch time and even on overcast days it keeps batteries up but not enough to cycle them. I tried a bore pump but no go there as the bore is 100 meters deep and the output was not enough to be useful for the cost, around $1500 from memory, I now will use a 1 HP single phase and run that of the inverter or power as required, spec is 500 ltr Hr @ 280 feet, sounds good but still in the box due to not setting it up yet, tree fell on the bore so another contract to get to it to set up. Cost Pump $365 from fleabay and cable another $200 spec says it draws 8 amps, quite a lot for a 1HP rated pump. With the water 150 feet up the bore it may do a but better than its max draw spec. It will fill a 5000 ltr plastic tank and then with a pressure pump for distribution to garden. I plan to run excess rain water back into the bore during the wet season to try to lift the storage as it is a porous sandstone basin underneath the ground, when the bore was first in some 30 years ago the water level was only 30 feet down but with years of drought it wend down to 250 foot and with the rains last year is up to 150 feet again so a bit of recharge may help. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
David Yes I also use a Lorentz 600 with 6 X 60 watt cells on the bore. Bore is 30m deep and it lifts the water another 30m making 60M head in total Bloody expensive but a beauty. Interesting about the Lorentz, the supplier required the temp of the bore water. Temperature being necessary to obtain the correct sleeve(rubber type compound) the screw pump runs in. If its too tight consumes more power if too loose just doesn`t pump. The rogue scrubber is still running free, and I`ve just a slight limp left. I`ll get her. Bob, I`ve been using those elcheapo fleabay pumps for a fair few years now, have found after about 2 years use, the bearings need replacing otherwise they are top value. The ones I`m using now are double ended ie they have a pump on each end of the motor. Brilliant. But they consume around 9amps on 24v at top revs. You`ll also find if you use a maximiser rather than running them direct off the panels, they`ll produce a lot more water/day. Unfortunately the old windmill has suffered a mechanical failure up top in the gear box. Rather than climb up there and repair, I`ve gone solar. Much simpler and safer to work on. Nothing to do with me getting old & lazy 
Made it I`m a Guru, my shout tonight at 6. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
congratulations. Your place or mine? I'll have a Coopers. David M. |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Thanks for the offer Vic but tonight grub and grog is supplied by Nick Xenophon as we handed out how to vote cards the party starts at 6 so scrubbing up is on the cards as soon as the pale is finished.... Cheers Bryan |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
OK, just me and a few cartons (slabs in SA aren`t they?). Times like this I do not understand our creator, gives us two hands to hold a stubby in each but only one mouth to take the amber fluid down. Very unfair. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Nor cold I know this is the solar forum, BUT, have you enough wind to support using a VAWT driving a swash plate coupled to a lever action water pump mounted atop the bore? I do not expect a reply, hijacking this thread. I just wanted to interject the idea in case it might be of some help. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Well Vic, When we finally got there we found several food vans a big screen TV and of course an open bar...... Got to meet Nick and we had several good chats and the free grog lasted until around 9.30pm. Gotta say it was a top evening and it looks like we'll now do this every election not only as we support Nick and his group but also for the street party afterwards. Well for other guys in SA if you support nick next time around spend a few hours handing out how to vote cards and come along to a great party.... Cheers Bryan P.S. when I can get a chance I'll make a new thread as a blog for this 5 cyl rotary engine I'm building from scratch too |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Bryan, Well you had something to celebrate certainly. Hopefully now there`ll be some sense injected into the IWT debate. Mac, Heh, nearly anything goes on the 4M , your not hijacking. I live in a very sunny part of OZ, and because of that can rely on solar. Bugger all mechanical things to wear out, just an occasional lightning strike otherwise just boring reliability, something that solar can deliver. Now with the panel prices dropping below $1/watt etc. But your idea is not without merit just I`m a lazy blighter. The MIG, Oxy, lathe etc are gathering dust in retirement. Spend most of my construction time building RC planes, and as I`m worlds worst flier seem to be always behind and nothing to fly. My biggest boast is "I can rekit a plane in seconds". But hell that smell of balsa dust. David, I moved away from tank pump controls and simply run from the top quarter of the tank piped to my irrigation. This always maintains the tank at 3/4 full and because of the way the siphon works it doesn`t cut in until the tank is almost full, thus I get a good volume flow to the sprays, regardless whether a cloud shades the panels briefly. Pumps run whenever the sun shines. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
I like that set up. It follows my Kiss principle. I do want to have a go at the capacitive water probe though for the sheer hell of it. I've got all the rest of the gear. The original configuration used a float switch that sent an RF signal to the pump to start up (well, switch on anyway - can't start at night). I'll do a post on the capacitive probe when I have a unit up and running. If the electronics fails, I always have the backup on/off switch for manual operation. We have a female wallaby on our block too. Not a pet, but tolerates us at 25 yards or so. They certainly know how to strip new shoots of fruit trees. She delivers us a new joey the long weekend in October each year which hangs around for 12 months or so unless it is a male. She goes by the name "Missy" and recognises the "Skippy" language but I believe it is a tall tale that wallabies actually make that noise. (comment against my better judgement) Don't count on anything happening wrt IWT. Not as long as IMac is involved. David M. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Interesting about wally communication. Although they throw themselves at fast moving cars, they are not without intelligence and do have methods of communication. Mother wally calls her young with a kind of. nnnnnnn. You close your teeth and run your tongue up a down inside your teeth whilst gently pulling some air through your teeth (well sort of) The Missus was doing this to an inquisitive wild rock wally with a joey in her pouch. The wally approached, Missus put out her hand, kept making the gentle noise and it attacked her hand drawing blood. As we rear the young wallies & roos, usually orphaned from road kill, to the release stage. They each display a individual personality of their own, and although the idea is to have only necessary contact to help them adapt to the wild, (something we`ve come to realise is just a hairy fairy feel good crap, bit like in another unrelated example, but I didn`t say that) we very much enjoy this individuality. It is natural, necessary and bloody obvious that the young form a bond with their mother or in our case carer, this bond in some does not diminish, even though out in the wild they have to contend with dingoes, wild dogs & cats etc,( we have heaps of predators here) some still know their carer, some bolt on release some come back every now and then and some hang around. But the moment a stranger gets within cooee of those that hang around they are off returning only when the coast is clear. Although we care we do not expect others to care, we live in a farming community where the wallabies & roos are nothing but pests, but very often we get a farmer dropping off a joey that has been orphaned sometimes even probably by that farmers hands. Whoops I`m dribbling on. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Glad to see that E-Bay is used for some purchases. I am going to set up solar panel, pump and water head will be something like 3 to 4 meters, so nothing compared to what you fellows done. Have no experience with pumps. My question is what sort of failure I can expect on Brushless water pump. I am pretty sure that diaphram fails first on diaphram pump. As to panels, glad to see that 24V panel doesn’t kill 12V pump, as I considered getting 12V solar panel to be on a safe side. Could you fellows tell me what sort of regular maintenance you do? Also what to look for as tell-tale signs of future failure, if there are any? Thank you in advance for help. George |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
George, Purchase a lot from Ebay, love the feedback system, the security and safety of Paypal. The diaphragm pumps I source from Ebay are not brushless. Never had diaphragm problems from going on 5 years continuous use. Found the sealed bearings(easily sourced on Ebay) need replacing at about 2 year intervals, caused from water ingression usually. My pumps float on the water level, allowing max suction efficiency. Sometimes the ducks have a meeting on the pump floats, thus dunking one end and the water ingression. To operate straight off the solar panels(no battery) for efficiency use a maximiser. These are obtainable in kit form from a number of suppliers. Google them, to date have not found a supplier on Ebay. The kit maximisers can be built in either 12 or 24v, 6 or 12amp. From memory they range from about $20 to $80. Ready built ones range from $200 to $1000`s, but they are much more sophisticated although not necessarily more efficient. I go for 24v 12amp to cut resistance losses in wiring. Make sure you run the wiring in conduit, I use 3/4" poly. The water rats, crows, cockies & wallies etc love chewing on wires, think they get a kick once they bare the wires as they keep going until chewed right through. You can get 24v pumps on Ebay just not the double ended one I now use. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
HI chaps, I realise you are talking about diaphragm pumps, however I use a Mono type (with the helical impellor in a helical rubber tube. Last year the pump refused to run. Could find nothing wrong with it. The manufacturer said it wouldn't turn because it had not been run for a few months over winter even though the ground water temperature is around 15degC and the pump remained submerged. Seems that the rubber sleeve expands a bit when not run for extended periods and it has too much friction to start up. Instructions to that effect were/are supposed to be in the installation documents that come with the pump. I've scoured their documentation on paper and on line but can not find reference to such instructions. I think the manufacturer was just trying to dodge warranty. (Lorentz) These days we run the pump at least once a week. That means having someone come in regularly when we are away from home (which is becoming increasingly necessary - IWTs). How do the diaphragm pumps work? Are they solenoid driven? David M. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
David, My Lorentz ceased up when it was about 2 years old, on taking out of the bore and separating the "screw" from the motor found the motor was hard to turn. My supplier checked it and told me that a batch were sent out that had bushes(bearings) that grew tighter with age. My pump was one of that batch and Lorentz repaired it free of charge. The diaphragm pumps I am talking about are the 12 or 24volt DC variety, that are used frequently by farmers up my way to spray weed control from usually 4 wheelers with a small tank mounted on back.. They have no solenoid just an eccentric driven bearing on the shaft of a normal brushed motor. Similar to a wobble plate, usually having 4 diaphragms. The expensive ones are stamped Made in USA (Shurflow etc), but I suspect they are in fact made in the same place as the Ebay ones, China. I wrap 1/2" copper around the motor and feed the discharge through this,for cooling, they then will run continuous. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
David, This is a single ended one. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Hi Vic, Thanks. I should have cottoned to that. We'll blame IWT for the memory lapse. I have one of those little pumps on a "garden" boom spray I made up to tow behind the ride-on mower for broadleaf control in the couple of acres of "lawn" we have. I usually use methyl chloro phenoxy acetic acid. I'll have a look at the head/flow specs. The unit I have has a built in pressure switch. Perhaps I could use one to boost the hot water which a header tank type in the ceiling and doesn't have nearly as much pressure as the cold water which is gravity fed from a tank on the hill about 250 metres behind the house. Not sure how it would go handling the temperature though. More thought required. David M. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
David, Feel they`d probably handle the hot water, the diaphragm`s appear to be made of a silicon like substance rather then rubber. They have inbuilt thermal protection in the motor, some have fan cooling(although the ebay ones I`ve purchased so far haven`t). They have proven to be fairly bulletproof. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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