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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 10:47am 04 Feb 2018
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I have a 14HP twin and a 23HP single Chinese horizontals and they both perform very well. The big single is surprisingly smooth and not that noisy, but the 14HP twin is ultra smooth and very quiet with a decent muffler and good air filter. Both these are designed to run at a maximum of 2200 RPM, but they have a wide range of speed settings available. What you can't slow down much is air-cooled engines that use the flywheel as a fan.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 02:22pm 04 Feb 2018
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Not sure about that. Never seen anything factual on it but my own experience suggests otherwise.
I like to under drive engines. Slow the revs and load up the torque. That is exactly what they do with a lot of industrial engines to get better life. A mate was telling me the size of the engines the Navy puts in these tender boats but only run them half RPM to get better life. A mate that works For CAT tells me the same thing. They use bigger engines and wind them back on the pump to limit the HP to get better life out the things.
It's also well established that lower revs at higher engine loading's are more fuel efficient as well. Not that it matters a lot to me running on Veg oil but just the same.
I have done it with air cooled petrol and diesel engines, both Vertical and horizontal Chinese engines and others like my Hatz, Ruggerini and lombardini.
Never had trouble with any of them and they certainly do not over heat. I was playing with the 5Hp horizontal the other day and noted how much air is blowing through the cylinder on that thing even at low RPM Just above idle. The flywheel fan is about 300mm in diameter and about 30mm thick. The blades are very closely spaced so it's efficient at moving air. The engine is also well covered with sheet metal ducting so all the air goes where they wanted it to, round the Cylinder.
I have never taken temp readings on any of them but I can tell by the crank case temp they are not running too hot. I really don't know that ordinarily they don't run too cold either. I think more would depend on ambient temp and load than speed as that would be pretty much linear (if not more efficient at low revs) and I'd also guess they would have a good amount of over cooling built in to allow for high loading in hot conditions.
I think aircooled engines would have to deal with massive variations in engine temps as a nature of the unregulated cooling method they have.
Is your twin a V twin or a side by side?
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 09:15pm 04 Feb 2018
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Apparently, the air cooled Lister TR2 I have should not be run under 75% load for any period or they carbon up and get a wet exhaust. There is no way to regulate the engine temperature like a thermostat in a water cooled engine.
The Chinese twin is horizontal side by side.Edited by Madness 2018-02-06There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814
Posted: 04:31am 05 Feb 2018
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You can regulate the temp of some aircooled motors, vw for example had a thermo controlled flap in their shrouds to provide extra temp to the motor in colder conditions which could partially cut off the cooling air flow or duct heat from the exhaust heaters (used for cabin heating) into the cooling system if required
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 07:27am 05 Feb 2018
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And the Load factor is the key.
If you reduce the RPM, you also reduce the output. Many industrial engines have charts showing RPM / HP.
Lets say you have a 100Hp engine at it's rated RPM. If you reduce the RPM by half, it might be developing 40 HP at that speed. If you put a 30 Hp Load on it, you are in fact driving it at 75% load.
It's more to do with keeping temps and pressures up. A loaded engine at lower RPM usually has higher Cylinder pressures than at higher RPM. This allows the rings to seat in the piston lands and against the cylinder walls properly eliminating blow by and oil dribbling. In this case,the engine is running under it's rated output and is therefore under stressed particularly in thrust and side loading of the piston on the cylinder wall.
Gas speeds through the engine will still be quite high because of the cylinder pressures but Cylinder filling and evacuation will be better because the valves are open longer therefore giving more effective Duration.
I used to muck around a fair bit with 2 stroke engines. You can really wrong power out of those things with a few tricks. One thing I read in a book which I always do now even with 4 Strokes which is taboo by the book is put a chamfer on the base of the piston skirt. 1-3 mm bevel on the bottom edge of the skirt allows the piston to ride up on the oil film instead of scraping it straight off and the piston riding along the piston wall relatively dry.
I found this one little trick made a HUGE difference to the engine life on 2 strokes. I could run engines 3 times linger than what one would normally and you would tear them down and the cylinder still had all the cross hatch and the rings and piston skirt had bugger all wear. This was even more impressive given that the engines I did were more abused than anything else. Screaming RPM, over loaded and over heated for long ongoing periods of time and just basically thrashed.
I have found that it also seems to help on 4 strokes and despite being told 50 Times it will overwhelm the oil control rings and cause oil to get past and burn in the cylinder, In the half dozen or so engines I have tried it in I have never seen all I'll effect. I figure if it's not hurting it's most likely helping given the results I have seen on the 2 strokes.
Nope, never seen one of those! Does it have a model Number? Usually they have something like 165F or 1115 to designate the capacity and layout. I'd like to look these up!
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 08:04am 05 Feb 2018
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Horizontal twin has nothing on it to identify it, apparently, it came off of an ex-telecom trench digger. Had quite a bit of electrics on it to shut it down with low oil pressure, over temp etc. I have 2 of them but the second one is missing the injectors. The one that is running I put on a Kubota walking tractor/rotary hoe, it runs perfectly, but I sold the rotary hoe with a smaller Kubota single on it.
Closed I have seen to them is a Kubota twin.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 09:44am 05 Feb 2018
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They are a vertical Cylinder Horizontal Crankshaft?
Those I have seen. Have one actually.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 10:07am 05 Feb 2018
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It is horizontal as I have said, just like the majority of the Chinese slow speed singles but this is a twin. Has the fuel tank on top and radiator bolted to the top of the cylinders with small fan with it's alternator inside driven by a belt off the back of the flywheel.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 10:47am 05 Feb 2018
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Can't be a lot around. Haven't seen one and can't find any on the Chinese Trade sites.
Phil23 Guru Joined: 27/03/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1664
Posted: 09:24pm 15 Feb 2018
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Well the Honda's running us again.
Lost power 20 minutes ago around 8am.
Typically this will be no less than an hour & current reports indicate total town out, & extending past a 20km radius.
Great reliability we have in our Gold Plated System.
Phil.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 09:30pm 15 Feb 2018
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Where we are Energex now has to pay every customer $114 if the power is out for more than 8 hours. So they have a very strong incentive to keep the lights on.
Someone I know has been off the grid for 14 years and has had one blackout in that time. That was caused by the standby generator battery failing. They had other shutdowns for maintenance but only for short periods and they knew in advance it was going to happen. One of those was for a new battery bank after 12 years.Edited by Madness 2018-02-17There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 09:35pm 15 Feb 2018
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You can't reduce the RPM of this engine as it is directly coupled to the generator.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 10:54pm 15 Feb 2018
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I was talking to my father last night whom is on the mid north coast. He was telling me the blackouts have been getting worse over the last 2 years. He used to keep his Honda genny in the shed. Now he has a place for it in the laundry as he got sick of having to go up the shed and fetch it so often.
He said he has it all down to a fine art now. Has the right length leads to go from the back verandah to his lamp, the TV and the fridge which are his essentials.
I haven't heard of the compensation for the power going out. Last year there was a 3 Day blackout where my father is and people were screaming about loosing all the food in their refrigerators/ freezers but the power company there wouldn't pay a cent.
I think from what I hear, in some places the compensation payments could cancel out your quarterly bill!
Phil23 Guru Joined: 27/03/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1664
Posted: 08:58pm 16 Feb 2018
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Ditto here,
About 20' from where it needs to be plugged in.
Have a sneaking suspicion it may move though, Wednesday nights thieves seemed to take a good look at it maybe deciding it was a bit to heavy for this trip.
Have a changeover switch & inlet that have been sitting here a few weeks now. Gotta get around to putting them in.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 09:27pm 16 Feb 2018
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A sensor light is a good deterrent, I bought few solar ones a little while ago for $15 each. You could wire a buzzer in your house to the LED input. Or get a couple Rottwiellers like I have, if anyone jumped the fence the last thing they will be thinking of is what they can take with them.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 09:52pm 16 Feb 2018
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I know what I'd be putting in mate, a Rottweiler! Wouldn't be my first choice but Lions and Tigers are a bit hard to come by these days in this country. Nothing wrong with Shepherds either. Had several of both and they are great dogs. Gentle and trustworthy but the look of them scares the crap out of any low life.
I was selling a trailer once. Had it stored else where but hadn't used it in a long time and had to remove it from where it was. These Highly suspect guys turned up and spent as much time looking around the side of the house and asking questions about when I worked and what time I'd be home as they did about the car trailer. Said to the Mrs these mongerals are looking to knock it off.
Was hard to secure it so I just tied one of the "Pups" up to the drawbar that night. Sure enough, in the wee hours I heard her going nuts and looked out to see 3 guys legging it down the street. Pretty sure she liked it out there. Sometimes she slept under it, sometimes on top. Never bothered with people walking down the street but seemed to like watching the world go by that she couldn't see out the back.
Once the trailer was gone, I used to let her come out and sit on the front verandah while I mowed the lawn. Seemed to really like that too. Figured it was good " advertising" to let people see her and know what was in store if they came to visit uninvited.
I'm getting a guy in to upgrade my wiring to the shed to 3 phase and put in another dedicated circuit for the solar. Going to put in a transfer switch as well for the 12/2 Lister I'm getting with the 6Kw head. Will run everything in the place bar the 3 phase air. Neighbors tell me blackouts are frequent here but the supply has proven to be annoyingly reliable since we moved in.
Makes it more difficult to justify buying Diesel toys and generators when the Mrs never sees the practical need for them. A few Demonstrations here and there would pave the way to much less resistance when a new piece of treasure comes along one would like to acquire. Maybe I should just sneak out and flick the switch while she is Drying her hair or better still rig up a switch on a plug that sends the active back to Neutral so it trips the RCD so she can see I never left the house.
Perhaps if you are getting a lot of blackouts it might be a good opportunity for you to start building up your diesel toy collection too! Diesel Stationary engines are great, Every man should have 3, ......7...... Errr, a dozen... or more, like me!
Honda's are nice and all but there is nothing as enjoyable as watching the big Flywheels of an old Lister go round and hearing the grandfather clock like sound of it running. At worst you could pick up a Chinese Horizontal. What they lack in character they make up for in reliability but are still cool things to have. Best part is you can run both very happily off waste veg oil and you won't care how often the power supply falls over.
I remember reading of one guy in the US, Florida I think it was, that had a Lister in place ready and waiting. Had a couple of 44's full of fuel and when the storms came and the state lost power, he fired up the genny and carried on. He finally turned it off when a Neighbor came over 2 days after the power was restored and asked why he still had the genny running? He'd got so used to it he forgot all about the mains power.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 10:01pm 16 Feb 2018
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Buzzer my arse! Get an air horn off a car or preferably a truck! I did it cheap on my 4WD after getting sick of people pulling out in front of me at the last second and just grabbed a bunch of regular electric car horns. 6 of them under the front bumper makes an impressive warning sound even if they are nothing special individually.
While one was at the wreckers, picking up a couple of air bags would add to the deterrent value as well. One or two of those things going off would cause any low life to leave an easy to follow trail of ship from out the leg of their trousers to follow back to their hovel.
Exactly. You'll know when someone has been though because they will go over the fence to come in and through it in their haste to get out!
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 02:13am 17 Feb 2018
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The idea of the buzzer is to let you know you have visitors without alerting them.
That would give me a chance to really rev up the dogs.Edited by Madness 2018-02-18There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
George65 Guru Joined: 18/09/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 308
Posted: 03:41am 17 Feb 2018
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HHAHAHAHAH!
My rotties although big softies, never needed any revving up. Always ready to go nuts on anything you pointed to and give them the command for.
I was minding a mates Shepherd once while he was on holidays. I was one of only 2 people outside the family who could ever get near the thing. There was no way he could put it in a kennel. Had her at the house I used to work from which was great from a security POV. Secretary wasn't so keen though as she couldn't go out and sit on the back verandah for a smoke and her lunch while it was there.
Another mate came to visit and made the mistake of thinking it was my dog in the yar and took no notice of the barking and walked in the back gate when he saw the car and I didn't answer the door. I came out the shed to hear him yelling and see the dog hanging off his arm then literally ripping the seat out of his pants and his backside at the same time. It wasn't good or funny. He was not in a good way for some time after and had to take a week off work.
He required quite a few stitches and there was some fast talking to do to explain it so the dog wasn't put down.... Which may have not been the worst thing. I think only thing that saved it was my mate said he had seen it and come into the yard rather than it attacking him outside it's bounds. I felt bad too and locked the gate after that. Never thought anyone would try to come in with this snarling beast there and being a business, no one other than a few people ever did anyway.
Got to admit, I never liked that dog and there is no way on earth I would have had it with the age of my mates children but it never did do anything but slobber on them.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 06:34am 17 Feb 2018
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Exactly the same with ours but giving them the command makes me feel better.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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